180. Comparing Pet Foods with Amy Renz

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Welcome back pet parents.
I have the wonderful Miss Amy

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Renz back with us today on the
Pet Parenting Reset and I

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initially asked her to come back
on because I want to talk about

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the new restorative diets that
Goodness Gracious has available

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for you for your dogs right now.
I think they are incredible and

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I want her to tell you all about
them, but I also don't want to

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waste this opportunity because
she is so brilliant and has so

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much knowledge to share with all
of you, pet parents and me as

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well.
That's one of the perks of doing

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what I do is I get to learn
right alongside of you.

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So I think let's just go ahead
and jump in.

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Amy, thank you so much for being
back with us today.

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So having me, Jess, this is
wonderful.

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So enjoy, you know, every time I
hear you speak, I, and I know I

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say this all the time, I'm just
always blown away by the

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information that you share and
how much research you put into

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that information that you share.
And before we hit record, you

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were just talking about a couple
of the talks that you've given

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recently.
And one of the things, and I've

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actually, I didn't tell you this
before we started recording, but

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I was actually creating like my
own little worksheet recently on

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pet food math because there is
like there's so much to consider

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and trying to simplify it for
people.

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And, you know, learning all the,
all the things and trying not to

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be fooled with the marketing
claims.

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One of the biggest things that I
see from people is, you know,

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because carbohydrates are not
listed on the guaranteed

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analysis.
Fortunately, hopefully, I don't

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know, I think we're all kind of
up in the air on what's going to

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happen with pet food regulation
at the moment.

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But they're supposed to be
changing the labels to where you

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have to add the carbohydrate
percentage.

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But Even so, people, something
so basic to, to, to you or me is

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like a dry food diet versus a
high moisture diet.

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And looking at the protein and
fat percentages, people are

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like, oh, well, this dry diet
has so much more protein in it.

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No, really it doesn't, right.
So I'd love for you to kind of

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explain some of that to people
to help them kind of get past

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all that marketing and maybe
understand a little bit better

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about, you know, comparing
labels of foods because it is

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apples to oranges a lot of
times.

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It is.
It is.

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Yeah.
You know, I think almost

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everything that's on a pet food
label is really designed to

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confuse consumers.
And it's unfortunately, you

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know, we have some really good
consumer advocates out there.

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You know, Susan fixed in, you
know, as the first person that

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comes to mind when we talk about
truth and pet food labels and

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all of that.
And she's done a remarkable job

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advocating for consumers.
But, you know, it's, it's a huge

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battle.
You know, AFCO, the American

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Association of Feed Control
Officials that regulates pet

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food.
It's the, the board, the people

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that sit on those, you know,
committees and those of those

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panels with AFCO are trade
association members of big and,

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and big pet food sits on those
trade associations.

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So, you know, what becomes
regulation and what becomes the

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narrative around pet food is
really what big kibble wants us

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to hear.
So there's a lot on a pet food

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label that we kind of have to
cut through in order to get at

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the nutrients of what we're
feeding our, our dogs and, and

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our cats.
And you know, one of the one of

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the biggest things that I even
see on real food packaging that

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can be confusing to consumers is
something that, you know, you

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see a lot of times on raw food,
free shy food, a little bit on

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gently cooked food.
And it's that flame about 90%

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meat and bone or 90 to 95%, you
know, meat and organs and

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whether or not that's actually
useful information.

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And so many people think it is.
But here's something right to

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think about is that think about
it being Taco Tuesday, right?

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You going into the grocery store
aisle and you're going to go buy

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some ground beef and you walk
down the meat aisle and you have

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a package of 80% lean ground
beef and you've got a package of

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92% lean ground beef, right?
And there's a huge price

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difference between the two of
them.

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And it's because the 92% lean
ground beef has a lot more

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protein in it than fat.
And so there's three times more

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protein in that 92% lean ground
beef than there is fat.

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But the 80% lean ground beef is
more fat than protein.

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So which one of those is in that
package of pet food?

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I you really can't tell.
So that that information that's

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on that label, it's not really
helpful.

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In fact, it can be confusing to
most people, right?

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And so the best way to look at
pet food is how human

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nutritionists look at human
food.

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And that's where the calories
come from.

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What's on that guaranteed
analysis, though is essentially

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the weight of those macro
nutrients in the package, those

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percentages.
And we were just talking about

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this right before he went live.
But you look at a human food

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label and it talks about the
numbers on there are grams and

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their percentage of daily
values.

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But the guaranteed analysis is
just these random percentages

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like one of those actually mean.
And so I like to think about my

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puppies are barking, but I like
to think about it like as a mud

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pie, right?
And, and if I were going to go

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make mud pies and I going to
say, OK, I'm going to put a

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pound of dirt in here and I'm
going to put a pound of worms

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and a pound of rocks and a pound
of water.

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What's my guaranteed analysis
for that?

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And it's essentially 252525
percent, 25%, right?

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And so that's how we think about
a guaranteed analysis.

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It's the weight of the
components that that go in as a

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percentage of the whole
carbohydrates as you mentioned

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are listed currently on pet food
labels.

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They will be, but not for
several years.

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And so we have to figure out
first what that carbohydrate

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number is.
And that's essentially by

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subtracting, adding up all of
those things that we see on that

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guaranteed analysis plus ash,
which sometimes is there and

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sometimes it's not.
And if it's not there, you use

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6% for dry food and 2% for a wet
food, right?

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Those with good rules and
thumbs.

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And you add up all that stuff
and you subtract it from 100 and

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that's going to give you a
carbohydrate.

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And then essentially you've got
to know from there that there's

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4 calories in every gram of
protein and every gram of

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carbohydrate and 9 calories in
every gram of fat.

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And so the math of it.
And I'll share with you a link

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to a, a worksheet CHEAT SHEET
that we have so you can publish

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it for your listeners.
But, but it's essentially, you

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know, you multiply your protein
times 4, your carbohydrate times

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4, and your fat times 9.
And you Add all that up, right?

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And then you take your protein
and divide it by your total, and

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that's going to give you a
percentage of protein.

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And you do the same for the fat
and the same for the

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carbohydrate.
And when you get those numbers,

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you know you've done it right
because all those numbers add up

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to 100 because protein plus fat
plus net carbohydrate equals

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100% of calories, Fiber, ash,
moisture, they might be on a pet

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food label, but there's no
calories in those things.

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So the then you say, OK, I've
got these numbers right.

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So what do I, how do I evaluate
that?

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How do I know that that's
healthy for my dog?

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And there's an, you know, it's
not right for everybody, but it

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is a well respected, well
recognized standard, the

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ancestral diet standard, right?
And, and it basically says that

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it, our dog's wild ancestors got
49% of their calories from

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protein, 44% of it from fat and
7% from carb.

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So protein to fat ratio would be
about, you know, there's

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probably about 10% more protein
calories than fat.

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So it'd be like 1.11 to one,
right?

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And have a quick I to look right
up there for you.

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So that's like that's the
ancestral diet model, right?

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We do and we'll talk about this
when we get into our restorative

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diets.
We do more of an epigen, what we

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call an epigenetic diet model,
which is a little higher on

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protein, little bit lower on
fat, about the same on carbs to

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adjust certain needs that we see
modern dogs have today that and

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issues that they and challenges
that they have to deal with that

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their wild ancestors did not.
So that that's essentially the

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the math of it all.
If you're going to try to do,

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there's a couple of quick and
dirty hacks you can do so

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because, you know, otherwise
you're going to have to have a

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pet food label and your
calculator and try to make sense

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of all of that as you're
standing in the aisle with the

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freezer door open, you know,
wondering which one do I buy?

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So there's a couple of quick and
dirty hacks, right?

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One of them is to just take it,
try to get a quick sense on

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whether or not there's more
protein than fat in that

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package.
And the best way to do that, the

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fastest way to do that is to
say, OK, my protein number on my

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guaranteed analysis, I'm going
to multiply it by 4.

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And my fat number, I'm going to
multiply that number by 9 and

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then compare those two numbers
and whichever 1 is higher,

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that's the that's the macro
nutrient that's greater.

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So that's one way to determine
if there's more protein than fat

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in the package.
There's another quick and dirty

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hack that you could do that
says, OK, if I'm going to look

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at a, an ancestral diet model,
right, 49% protein compared to

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44% fat on a caloric basis, what
would my guaranteed analysis

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ratio look like?
And essentially it's 5:00 to

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2:00.
So you would want to look at a

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guaranteed analysis and say, OK,
my, my protein and my fat are

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basically in a five to two ratio
or higher, meaning there's more

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protein than fat.
And you know, that will give you

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a decent place to start.
And then when you, if you from

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there, if you say, OK, I want to
compare this food to that food,

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then that's the best.
Then that's when you're doing

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your full macronutrient
calculation to compare the two.

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Yeah, is that?
Into your question, a little bit

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hard to do without a whiteboard
and yeah.

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Right.
No, I'll actually put the that

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in the show notes because I
think people can kind of maybe

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copy and paste that into their
notes app on their phone.

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And then when they're out, yeah,
having having something like

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quick that they can just pull up
and be like, OK, is this, you

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know, how close is this to the
to the five two ratio that Amy

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was talking about?
Right.

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Yeah.
Because that's all my.

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All my graphics I prepared for
the day well.

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You know it.
It is sadly, as you were talking

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about, you know, these big pet
food companies sit on the boards

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of these trade associations who
sit in committees to create the

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rules and regulations that the
states adopt for pet food to

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follow.
And so it is very intentional.

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I was going to use the word
insidious which is probably

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accurate, but.
Yeah.

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To, in my opinion, make things
as complicated as possible for

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the average pet parent to not
understand.

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So they flip around the bag back
over to the front and look at

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all the pretty pictures of that
beautiful cut of chicken and

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these gorgeous bright blue
blueberries.

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And you know, all of the things
that they I actually want you to

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be paying attention to, even
though that doesn't necessarily

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equate to what's actually in
that bag of food for your pet.

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So being able to be that savvy
consumer that says no, let me

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turn this bag around because
that's where the information is

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that I actually need to know.
And hopefully you know, and

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however many years when
carbohydrates are listed, it

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will make it that much easier
for pet parents to because I

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think, I think most people
understand that they don't want

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a ton of carbohydrates in their
food or their pets food.

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They just don't see it.
It's not right there in front of

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their face.
So they're blind to it or don't,

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you know, don't have the time,
the bandwidth to do that kind of

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research.
So if they're actually faced

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with oh, this bag of food has
45% carbohydrate on it.

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Right, it will.
Be easier for them to say, well

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that's not the bag of food I
want.

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Right.
Yeah.

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So currently we have to, we have
to do the math to figure that

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out.
And I think, you know, I'm not a

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00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:40,840
numbers person.
I'm not.

225
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,880
My husband is.
I will say he counts everything.

226
00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:45,840
He looks at everything is a
number.

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00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:50,080
We will walk into a restaurant
and he will say there are 32

228
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,480
people in here and the average
check is $15.

229
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,080
And how is this place staying
in?

230
00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,000
But you know what I mean?
Like, he right, he just does

231
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,440
that.
He'll he'll count the ceiling

232
00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:00,880
tiles at the doctor's office
like that's his thing.

233
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,360
But I'm not.
So I would actually have to like

234
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,680
pull out my calculator and do
the math and say, OK, they're

235
00:14:10,680 --> 00:14:15,640
telling me that protein is at 32
percent, you know, whatever it

236
00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,720
is, they're telling me that
protein is AT and, and figure it

237
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,640
out and, and I'm sorry, tracked
by 100.

238
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,960
And also having to know that ASH
is often not listed.

239
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:32,440
Like that's a thing as well that
people don't always know or

240
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:37,840
understand.
So when we are how do, how do

241
00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:45,960
you look at a dry food versus
say a gently cooked food?

242
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,400
What are some of the things that
you're looking at there, other

243
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,360
than the obvious that the gently
cooked food is high moisture so

244
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,320
you would want that for your pet
anyway when you're looking at

245
00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,480
the lay falls?
Yeah.

246
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,800
So I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't
necessarily compare just a

247
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,720
gently cooked to A to a dry
food.

248
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:11,000
I, I think, you know, you know,
I did this really interesting

249
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:18,080
research project for myself and,
and presented the findings at

250
00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:22,960
the last feed reel Summit that I
was at just recently.

251
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:29,080
And I looked at almost 50
really, really high end brands.

252
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:33,400
And so, you know, I don't care
how we compete to Purina Pro

253
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,400
plan or whatever that stuff is,
you know, I mean, whenever those

254
00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,480
things are, they're just,
they're not competitors, right

255
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,760
of our side.
And they're not, they're and not

256
00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,560
even just competitors, they're
they're ultra processed foods,

257
00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,480
right?
So, but when we look at the

258
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:52,960
bucket or of real foods, right?
So the ones that are healthy for

259
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,640
our companion animals, those
would be the ones that you might

260
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,080
find on Susan Thixon's list,
right?

261
00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,360
Or Doctor Judy Morgan has a list
of pet food.

262
00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,680
So, you know, these are
companies that they've vetted

263
00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,840
and these are, these are really
great brands.

264
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,360
And if somebody's going to feed
a a commercially prepared food

265
00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:13,480
and not do it yourself at home,
these, that's the awesome place

266
00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:15,360
to start.
Like, you know, find a brand on

267
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,920
one of those two lists.
So I looked at brands like

268
00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,920
those, right?
So about 50 in all.

269
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,760
And I looked at every chicken,
Turkey, beef and pork recipe

270
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:32,120
that was complete and balanced
for adult oral life stages and

271
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,160
not a prescription diet, and I
did the macronutrient calorie

272
00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,000
calculation on it.
So there were 243 of those

273
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,400
recipes.
And.

274
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:45,200
Yeah.
And and of them only 26 met or

275
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:50,160
exceeded the 49% K Cal standard
for protein.

276
00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:56,840
And so, you know, not all that,
not all dogs, you know, the

277
00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,440
ancestral diet is not the diet
for all dogs, right?

278
00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,520
Dogs are individuals.
But it's a really good place to

279
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,760
start, right?
When you're talking about, OK,

280
00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:07,839
what, you know, what is a
healthy diet?

281
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,480
And that was really surprising
to me, right?

282
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:15,240
Because my assumption is that
all these brands have at least,

283
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,839
you know, an offering in that
ancestral range, right, where it

284
00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:23,359
was, you know, a little more
than 10% of us did.

285
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:29,200
So I, I was really pleased when
I saw how our diets fared on

286
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:35,320
that comparison, right?
All of our, all, all of our, all

287
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:39,000
of our complete and balanced
foods were above, you know, 49%

288
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:43,560
on a protein basis, right, for
protein basis.

289
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:48,400
So I think that that's a really
great place to, to a really

290
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,480
great way to evaluate food and
which one you want to feed,

291
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,880
right, is to start looking at
not just comparing gently cooked

292
00:17:55,920 --> 00:18:00,120
to an ultra processed diet, but
it's to look at the whole macro

293
00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:05,560
nutrient picture of all of them
in terms of dry food diets,

294
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:10,760
right, replacing as little as
20% of a dry food diet with real

295
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,720
Whole Foods, whether or not it's
a raw diet or a gently cooked

296
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,280
diet is going to have a positive
impact on, on health, right?

297
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,880
We, we know that from several
studies, the dog risk group out

298
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,200
of Helsinki, right, did a number
of studies.

299
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,960
They looked at a mom's early
puppies diet, pre and post

300
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,200
Natal, early post Natal diet and
then later post Natal diets and

301
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,400
found that all of them when they
were not processed diets or had

302
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,720
more real Whole Foods in them,
it had a lower instance on

303
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:43,480
developing atopy in adulthood,
right?

304
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,440
So there's epigenetics that work
for you right there, right?

305
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:53,040
Mom's diet has an impact on what
that, you know, that little body

306
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,640
is going to have problems or
health that they might have.

307
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,360
So but water is super important.
To get back to your question

308
00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:02,320
about dry food diets compared to
fresh diets, you know, water is

309
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,680
the biggest carrier for
nutrients in our body.

310
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:11,840
And when dogs have a where
they're constantly eating dry

311
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,840
food, they are at risk for
chronic low level dehydration.

312
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,080
The food that you and I eat,
it's 75% water.

313
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,080
If they're eating a dry food
diet, it's 10 to 12% water.

314
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,240
And so those dry food diets can
cause a whole bunch of problems

315
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,120
#1 there's problems with
digestion because we need a lot.

316
00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:33,080
Dogs need a lot of gastric juice
to digest protein.

317
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,520
Protein digestion is
predominantly done in the

318
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,560
stomach.
And so when you don't have

319
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:42,120
enough water or enough hydration
in your body, you're not

320
00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:45,360
producing enough gastric juice.
It lowers Peps in action.

321
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:48,720
And we don't get a good
digestion of proteins.

322
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,800
And that can cause allergies.
It can cause, you know, a GERD.

323
00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:59,320
It can cause indigestion, all
kinds of tooth decay, because

324
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,840
there's dehydration happening
there, which sets us up for

325
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,120
metabolic disease.
So getting as much real Whole

326
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:08,600
Foods in the in the diet is
really great just for hydration

327
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,520
purposes.
And then and then, you know,

328
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,920
there's a whole bunch of more
things that we can talk about in

329
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,840
terms of lack of synthetics in a
lot of real foods that now that

330
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,680
we're going to see in or buy
more bioavailability of

331
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,680
nutrients, more phytonutrients
that we're going to get.

332
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,560
You know, our our gut, those
microbios, those microbes in our

333
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,920
gut, they digest fiber and bio
active compounds, I3C,

334
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,520
sulforaphane, campfrault,
quercetin, ergotheanine found in

335
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,960
plants and mushrooms.
And then those bio active

336
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,440
metabolites are then transported
throughout our bodies to help us

337
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:45,000
with many metabolic and immune
mediated processes and detox

338
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,880
processes and essentially to
epigenetically eliminate cancer

339
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,280
as a life threatening disease.
So, you know, studies have shown

340
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:56,720
that cruciferous vegetables like
kale, cabbage, Brussels sprouts,

341
00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,480
broccoli sprouts contain
chemical components that can

342
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,920
prevent the dysregulation and
overexpression of genes that are

343
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,760
responsible for the uncontrolled
cellular proliferation and

344
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,040
viability of various types of
cancer cells, and that those

345
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:16,200
epigenetic benefits can be
inherited by future generations.

346
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,360
We want to know why one or two
dogs over 10 get cancer, right?

347
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:25,400
A powerful reason is that of the
8.65 million tons of ingredients

348
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,480
that go into commercial pet
food, green leafy vegetables

349
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,160
make up .05%.
So you know, it's really

350
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,640
important to get those things in
the diet too.

351
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,680
It's not just about protein and
fat, right?

352
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,640
It's it's about getting
phytonutrients.

353
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:46,280
When I look at our recipe by
weight, right, what goes into it

354
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,720
and we're, you know, we are very
high protein.

355
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,960
We're the highest protein
products on the market, high

356
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:56,320
protein, moderate fat, low carb.
We're still using about 25 to

357
00:21:56,360 --> 00:22:00,360
30% plant and mushroom
components in our diet.

358
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,480
And that's because these things
are loaded with fiber and water

359
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:08,120
which have no calories.
So by weight they make up a lot,

360
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,480
but calorically they don't know.
And I tend to like to break that

361
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:18,400
down by, you know, that 25 to
30% into maybe 15 to 20% dark

362
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,360
leafy and cruciferous greens,
maybe 3 to 6% orange root

363
00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:26,200
vegetables because they can also
be sources of starch. 2 to 4%

364
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,760
fruits because they can also be
sources of sugars and one to 2%

365
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,240
seeds and nuts, because they can
also be sources of fat set I I

366
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,240
would put mushrooms in that
orange root vegetable category

367
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,320
too, because they can also be a
little bit have a little bit

368
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,440
starch component to them.
Gotcha.

369
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:47,720
It there were a couple of things
you said in there One, I am

370
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,720
feeding my dog snacks 'cause she
was whining at me.

371
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,160
What's interesting and I didn't
I'm just not smart enough to use

372
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:02,160
the word epigenetics, but I.
Was talking.

373
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:10,560
I was talking to BC Henschen
earlier this year because they,

374
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,520
well, just the reality is, I
think even though the media

375
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:23,240
helped downplay it, we have had
a huge aware, there's an

376
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:28,000
awareness that came early, early
on this year about problems

377
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:33,240
still undetermined, but with
some ultra processed pet foods

378
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,200
making a lot of pets sick.
Like even more so than kind of

379
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,080
what we consider normal, that
that kind of go under the radar.

380
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,440
And so I was talking to him
about that.

381
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:49,640
And one of the things we were
kind of it was early on in, in,

382
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,840
in this whole like awareness of
the problem.

383
00:23:53,440 --> 00:24:00,040
And we were talking about the
idea that, OK, you, you know,

384
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,960
your, your mom, your grandma,
whoever is telling you that, you

385
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,840
know, you, you've always had
dogs and you've always fed them,

386
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,000
let's say Purina or whatever it
is.

387
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,320
You've always fed them this
kibble diet and they've always

388
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,200
been fine.
And they've lived a long time

389
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,280
and you know, whatever.
So they're going to be fine now.

390
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:25,240
But the reality as as somebody
just like me observing all of

391
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,920
this is seen is that from
generation to generation to

392
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:34,960
generation from eating this
ultra processed food their

393
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,160
entire life, generation after
generation after generation.

394
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:45,200
Like these dogs just now that we
have now maybe just aren't able

395
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:50,120
to handle the these things,
these high carbohydrate loads.

396
00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:55,120
All the toxins that are we know
are in whether it's the

397
00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:59,120
herbicides and the pesticides
and the AG ES all, all of the

398
00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:03,720
things there's not their bodies
aren't as well equipped because

399
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,480
it's been so many generations
now that they have been

400
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,000
nutritionally abused is comes to
mind.

401
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,240
And so I think that that's
probably kind of in line with

402
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,840
with what you're talking about.
We can change that trajectory by

403
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:22,360
starting to feed better foods to
our dogs so that the next

404
00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:24,600
generation is a little bit
better off and then the

405
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,480
generation after that is a
little bit better off than the

406
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,840
one prior to that.
Yeah, absolutely.

407
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,440
Just, you know, right on.
I think one of the biggest

408
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,960
challenges our dogs face today
that their wild ancestors did

409
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,120
not is being deconditioned, not
having enough muscle to fat in

410
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:43,840
our body.
Fat is like a massive, it's the

411
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,480
biggest metabolic organ that we
have in our bodies, right.

412
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:52,360
And fat or I'm sorry, muscle is
muscle is medicine and it's

413
00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:54,840
connected to everything.
It's connected to our brain

414
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,720
health.
And so, you know, when we are

415
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,960
deconditioned, there are more
pro inflammatory substances

416
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,120
floating around in our bodies
that fuel oxidative stress,

417
00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:08,240
insulin resistance,
inflammation, you know, leaky

418
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,920
gut, all these problems.
And, and you know, so you know,

419
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:18,320
our dogs are, they're
deconditioned because of the

420
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,320
diets that their parents,
grandparents, great grandparents

421
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,200
ate, right?
Not necessarily because of what

422
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,320
we're feeding them today or
because we don't get them out

423
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,040
for enough walks or all that
kind of stuff.

424
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,840
They're just epigenetically set
up to be deconditioned and, you

425
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,920
know, epigenetic
transgenerational inheritance,

426
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,280
right, of the propensity to be
fat and sick, right?

427
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,440
Those are big long words, but
they basically mean whatever our

428
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,160
grandparents and great
grandparents and that matters.

429
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,360
And you know, the epigenetic
transgenerational inheritance of

430
00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:52,320
the propensity to be fat and
sick is a real thing, right?

431
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,680
And it's fueled by those ultra
processed diets, lack of

432
00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:00,080
exercise, stress and a rising
level of toxins in our food, our

433
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,920
water supply and our
environment.

434
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,760
And you know, again, when we
talk about 60% of our dogs or

435
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,880
cats being even more for our
cats, cats are over 60%.

436
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,120
You know, it's, it's got it.
It's that, right?

437
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,000
Yeah.
And so it has to be counteracted

438
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,080
by the diets our dogs eat today.
Just us.

439
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:26,480
Well, and I think it's also why,
you know, I one of the things I

440
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:32,320
find myself doing so often with
clients that I work one-on-one

441
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:39,120
West is almost like a therapist.
Like, please don't beat yourself

442
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:41,360
up like you thought.
You know, they come to me and

443
00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:42,440
they're like, I thought I was
doing.

444
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,720
I've even had because I mean,
you know, I'm a mentor in Doctor

445
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,560
Ruth's program.
And so I have students that have

446
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,800
gone through the program
underneath of me and graduated

447
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,800
and come back to me asking me to
help them with their pets.

448
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,280
And I'm like, you know this
stuff.

449
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,920
Why are you coming to me?
But they feel so defeated

450
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,760
because they feel like they've
done everything right and still

451
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,280
something has happened to their
pet.

452
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,640
And I'm like, you have done
everything right and it is the

453
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,320
most you can do.
And OK, maybe we can make a few

454
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:20,800
tweaks here or there.
But you know, you, you have to

455
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:25,280
realize that we have no idea
what happened to this dog or

456
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:26,960
this cat before you adopted
them.

457
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,640
We have no idea what happened to
their parents or their parents

458
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,920
for them.
And so we just have to kind of

459
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,600
be a little gentler with
ourselves.

460
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:40,240
Even if we think we're doing all
the right things, that nature is

461
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,000
still like it's things are still
going to happen.

462
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:48,280
And so that kind of does leave
me into the fact that things do

463
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,440
happen and when they do
sometimes it's so funny.

464
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,600
I was actually just recording
with Doctor Chris lesson right

465
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,120
before jumping on with you.
So I was talking about this

466
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:05,480
exact same thing where sometimes
even though I very strongly feel

467
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,840
like for so many animals, if
they are eating an ultra

468
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,920
processed diet, a lot of the
times we we can transition them

469
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,120
to a fresh food diet and we're
going to see a lot of

470
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,440
improvement just by doing that.
But Even so, there are instances

471
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,480
where we need more support.
Sometimes we need nutritional

472
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:30,440
adjustments and so I know you
have worked for quite some time

473
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,920
with some really amazing people.
Doctor Ruth Roberts, Angela

474
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:41,240
Ardolino, Rita Hogan to put
these restorative diets.

475
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,760
It's OK, everybody listening as
a pet verret.

476
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,560
So, so I would love for you to
tell me a little bit about the

477
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,240
the new restorative diets that
Greatness Gracious has

478
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,600
available.
Yeah, I'd love to, you know, I,

479
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,280
I, I want to segue into that for
just, you know, kind of wrapping

480
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:04,440
up.
One of the things that you're

481
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,680
talking about as you're talking,
what came to mind is my

482
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,680
audience.
I don't know if you can see her

483
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,840
back there, but that's wolves.
So I've read this really

484
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,680
interesting study.
You know, wolves live.

485
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,600
Wolves can live 20 plus years
and the and the larger they are

486
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,600
the longer they live.
Our dogs huge study done 13

487
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,200
million dogs right?
A study done by Mars found that

488
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,120
average lifespan or average age
of time of death is 10.6 years.

489
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:38,080
So our dogs live 10.6 years and
the and the larger they are the

490
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:44,160
shorter their lifespan right?
Why wolves live intact through

491
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,480
natural selection right?
Survival of the fittest.

492
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,000
Our dogs exist through
artificial selection.

493
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,120
We breed a curated population of
them because we want them and

494
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,680
then we do sex or destroy most
of the rest, right?

495
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,480
So what's the result of this
natural versus artificial

496
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,880
selection for the last 13,000 to
130,000 years, right?

497
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,680
I mean, that's about how long?
A little bit up in the air.

498
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,800
It's a 10, you know, order of
magnitude difference.

499
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,800
But we've been domesticating
dogs for a long, long time.

500
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,680
So what's the result of that
artificial selection for at

501
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,600
least the last 13,000 years?
You know, some studies have

502
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,120
found that wolves have
antioxidant generating

503
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,400
superpowers.
Our dogs do not.

504
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,600
Our dogs actually instead
accumulate lipid damage.

505
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:37,280
So over time, excessive storage
of fat in our tissues causes

506
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:42,160
things like inflammation,
oxidative stress, mitochondrial

507
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,040
dysfunction.
So mitochondria are those little

508
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:49,080
power plants inside our cells,
so they create energy, but like

509
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,000
any factory, they pollute.
And a lot of free radicals come

510
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,800
from mitochondria.
But it causes this in our brain,

511
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,760
in our peripheral nervous
system, which is in charge of

512
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:05,800
voluntary and involuntary
functions like mobility and

513
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,040
urination and digestion.
So when we start to see those

514
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:14,440
problems happening in our dogs,
you know this can be a reason we

515
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:21,520
also fat storage in tissues like
the liver, pancreas, heart, bone

516
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,760
marrow can cause insulin
resistance.

517
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:30,880
And those things set us up for a
cascade of problems cluster of

518
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,040
biochemical and physiological
abnormalities that put us at

519
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,400
risk for metabolic disease or
put our dogs at risk for

520
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,560
metabolic disease.
So when we developed our

521
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,720
restorative diets, it, you know,
part of and part of that is in

522
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,720
our mind, right?
It's that we've got a difference

523
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,280
between our dogs and their wild
ancestors.

524
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:55,040
And so this ancestral model we
need, we may need to tweak a

525
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,800
little bit, right?
And you know, it's the model we

526
00:32:58,040 --> 00:32:59,960
applied to our classic diets
too.

527
00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:02,360
You know, it's wasn't just
something we kind of developed

528
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,640
as we were looking at a
restorative diets, but we wanted

529
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:09,120
to do something in line in that
model and, and also incorporate

530
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,000
some really, really cool
ingredients that put them

531
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,120
together in a way that serves
nutritional purpose, not just

532
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:21,840
overall general health.
So we, when we, if I can talk

533
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,800
for just a little bit more about
that model, you know, we're,

534
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,480
we're utilizing higher protein
levels because most of our dogs

535
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,680
are spayed or neutered.
And testosterone and estrogen

536
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,320
are powerful promoters of muscle
mass, strength and function.

537
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,960
Testosterone can increase
protein synthesis, decreased

538
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,640
protein or cortisol related
protein breakdown.

539
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,600
Estrogen plays a role in muscle
formation, contractile

540
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,200
properties, exercise, endurance,
all of that.

541
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,560
And muscle is super important.
It's not just for mobility, but

542
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,480
anytime our muscles do work,
they release myo myokines, which

543
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,640
are little protein signaling
molecules and they're picked up

544
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:03,240
by the brain and they help with
learning and memory and healthy

545
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,920
emotional behaviors and
something really cool called

546
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,639
BDNF.
You know, BDNF, it stands for

547
00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:12,560
Brain Dr. Neurotrophic Factor
and it supports the survival,

548
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,239
growth and health of our brain
cells.

549
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,719
So, you know, muscle is really
important not just for metabolic

550
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,880
health and mobility, but our
brain and our dogs brains too.

551
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:28,719
So we, we wanted to make sure
that our protein levels were

552
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,280
were elevated beyond the
ancestral model.

553
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:37,120
We wanted to look at fat right,
because fat if we've got, you

554
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,920
know, dogs that are have issues
with accumulation of fat in

555
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,360
their diet and we know that
prolonged not only prolonged

556
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,320
high carbohydrate diets cause
insulin resistance, but so do

557
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,760
prolonged high saturated fat
diets, in particular the

558
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,480
pulmonic and stearic acids that
we find in muscle meats.

559
00:34:54,480 --> 00:35:00,720
So choosing high protein but
lean muscle meats was really

560
00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:02,720
important for us in in these
diets.

561
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:10,080
And then also an abundance of
beautiful mushrooms and dark

562
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,040
leafy greens and cruciferous
vegetables.

563
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,360
Because when we look at the
whole picture of what our dogs

564
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:19,560
eat, a high protein, moderate
fat, low carb diet, plants and

565
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,040
and fungi play a necessary role,
right?

566
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,920
They're the source of the
antioxidants that protect the

567
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,240
fats in our foods and the fats
in our bodies from damage.

568
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,120
Vitamin E and carotenoids do
this really well.

569
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,480
Carotenoids are found in dark
leafy aggrociporous greens as

570
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:39,440
well as orange root vegetables.
We also they're also alkalizing

571
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,880
to the body, so protein is
acidifying.

572
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:43,920
So they counteract the
acidifying facts of a high

573
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,080
protein diet.
And some of the our ingredient

574
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,400
choices like in our kidney diet
can actually lower uremic

575
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,880
toxins.
So uremic toxins are the natural

576
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,960
byproduct of protein and fat
digestion and healthy bodies can

577
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,560
process those things just fine.
But when we have a body that's

578
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,640
with kidney, struggling with
kidney disease, that can become

579
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,280
a problem.
So when we so that's kind of the

580
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,200
overall and plus we need those
things to avoid synthetics

581
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:15,080
because, you know, that's just
religion for us, you know, but

582
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:21,840
so, so we developed a diet
called Rejuve for gut health and

583
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,400
total body health.
We developed a diet called Jing

584
00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:27,680
for Kidney health.
That's the only one that's not

585
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,200
complete and balanced because
it's intentionally low in

586
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,840
phosphorus, but it meets all the
other requirements.

587
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,560
It's actually got 45% of the
calories in that come from

588
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,520
protein.
So it's just under the ancestral

589
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:44,680
model, but it's still by far the
highest protein kidney diet that

590
00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:48,360
you'll find out there and higher
than it's got more protein than

591
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,720
most raw foods and most most
foods on the market anyway.

592
00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:55,000
So it's a which is great for
early to mid stage kidney

593
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,720
disease.
And in some cases, I was just

594
00:36:57,720 --> 00:37:01,960
listening to Barbara Royal talk
at the feed rail summit about

595
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,080
kidney disease.
And even in late stage kidney

596
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,000
disease, she never restricts
protein.

597
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,440
So, so just tuck that in the
back of your mind there.

598
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,760
And then we use, we have jive
for brain health and reveal for

599
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:20,600
metabolic health.
So we're utilizing in most of

600
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,480
these recipes medicinal
mushrooms, so like shiitake and

601
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:31,120
oyster mushroom and in Raju, my
Taki mushroom in reveal lion's

602
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:35,600
mane and reishi mushroom in our
brain health one because each of

603
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:40,320
these mushrooms is known to
excel in those particular areas,

604
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,760
right?
Reishi and oyster mushroom are,

605
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,480
I'm sorry, Reishi and lion's
mane mushroom, for example, can

606
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:50,080
work or they're adaptogenic and
they can protect and regenerate

607
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,920
nerve fibers.
They can improve sleep and

608
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,520
cognition, reduce stress and
anxiety and stress and anxiety

609
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,280
is bad for everything in the
body, right?

610
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,960
It's bad for muscle health, bad
for brain health, bad for our

611
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,240
gut.
We're utilizing Rita Hogan was

612
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,160
amazing.
She helped us with our herbal

613
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,600
additions.
Angela helped us with our

614
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,280
mushroom additions, Angela
Ardolino.

615
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,720
So we're very honored to work
with the both of them.

616
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:22,520
So in our gut recipe, we're
utilizing calendula and plantain

617
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,520
leaf.
Calendula, we often think of it

618
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,080
for skin wounds, but it's
healing to the gut in the same

619
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,680
way it is to the skin.
It can also stimulate digestive

620
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:35,280
secretions and lymphatics.
Plantain leaf supports the

621
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,800
production of a substance called
glycocalyx, which is a sticky

622
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,560
substance that helps commensal
bacteria adhere to the gut wall.

623
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,320
It also boosts the replication
of healthy gut lining cells and

624
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,320
that protective mucus layer in
the gut.

625
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,560
We're utilizing bilberries and
plums in that one because

626
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,040
they're like supercharged
blueberries, but the fiber and

627
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,680
plums is really great for a
healthy gut.

628
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:05,360
Spinach is in that one too,
because spinach is a crazy good

629
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,280
anti cancer and longevity
booster.

630
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,840
It's gut food, brain food,
metabolic food.

631
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,960
It's high in those carotenoids,
which protect the oxidation of

632
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:19,520
fats in our bodies, and in that
one where our main protein is

633
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,520
pork, because it's energetically
neutral and lean, we're using

634
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,680
pork liver too.
It's also loaded with B

635
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:30,480
vitamins, zinc, and selenium
that together support joints,

636
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,960
immune function, thyroid
function, and tons of enzymatic

637
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,800
functions in the body.
It's also high in B3 and some

638
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,400
really, really cool kind of
brainy scientific studies have

639
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:45,960
shown that B3 supports the
mitochondria, the communication

640
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,960
inside our cells between our
mitochondria and our and our

641
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,360
mitochondrial DNA and our
nucleic DNA.

642
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:58,560
And that communication when it's
like really active is a hallmark

643
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,040
of like really young bodies.
And so science scientists have

644
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:06,720
been able to reverse aging in
mice by boosting this

645
00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:12,200
intracellular communication.
And vitamin B3 plays a role in

646
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:13,840
that, which is really
fascinating.

647
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:14,920
So.
Wow.

648
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,840
Yeah, Yep, we're used a lot.
We're just using nettles in a

649
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:25,920
couple of our recipes.
Nettles are great for adrenal

650
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:31,440
function, kidneys and nerves.
They help balance cortisol,

651
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,080
histamines in our bodies, as
well as serotonin.

652
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:41,080
The So those are really, really
great our kidney diet, we're

653
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:45,400
using marshmallow root and
BlackBerry leaf because they can

654
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:50,680
and ginger root because they can
strengthen and tone kidney

655
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:55,640
function right and prevent UTI's
and do a whole bunch of really

656
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:57,320
good stuff for for kidney
health.

657
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:02,520
So they're really, really
fascinating recipes where I love

658
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,360
our sprouts.
I can't even stop talking about

659
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,960
them.
So we were using we, so we

660
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,880
partnered with a local woman
owned farm that makes gross

661
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,000
organic broccoli sprouts and
mung bean sprouts.

662
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,600
And so we're using those in in
some of our recipes, which I'm

663
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,200
really, really excited about.
Oh, I love that I can.

664
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:22,920
Go on and on.
But you know, you probably have

665
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,040
to cut me off, so no.
No, it's OK.

666
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:27,640
I love, I love that.
And I love that you're

667
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,560
passionate about them because
they, they look absolutely

668
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,640
amazing.
And you mentioned the kidney

669
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,840
diet a couple of times and you
kind of made a point to talk a

670
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:46,840
little bit about Doctor Barbara
Royal and not doing low protein

671
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,080
for kidney.
And that is a big, I think

672
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,240
that's pretty controversial.
I happen to be kind of in

673
00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:57,800
agreeance with that.
And it, it's been one of those

674
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,080
things.
I actually was just instructing

675
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:07,000
one of my students the other day
because for her homework, she

676
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,480
was like, well, I'm going to
make the kidney diet for my dog.

677
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:15,560
And I'm like, please do not like
there is, yeah, I do not want

678
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:22,120
that low of protein in your dog.
And I think there's so much to

679
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,120
weigh there, which I think there
is.

680
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,560
That's why there's so much
controversy because on one hand

681
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:32,840
we do want lower phosphorus
because, you know, the kidney

682
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,400
just can't function, is not
functioning the way it's

683
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,840
supposed to be.
It can't handle the same amount

684
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:43,280
of, of, you know, filtration of
toxins of, of phosphorus of

685
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,840
even, you know, breaking down
proteins and all of that.

686
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,720
But on the other hand, our dogs
and cats are carnivores.

687
00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:54,120
And they, I know there's,
there's also controversy on that

688
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,200
omnivorous carnivores for dogs,
whatever they're carnivores,

689
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:58,920
they're all carnivores.
They need meat.

690
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:04,960
They need the essential amino
acids from meat to thrive, to

691
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:09,880
survive.
And when we decrease the protein

692
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,360
in their diet, their body has to
get those amino acids from

693
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,080
somewhere.
So they're, they're, they're

694
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,120
literally going to cannibalize
their own muscle in their body.

695
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,400
So it, it really is this like
balance of, you know, if you

696
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:29,000
have a dog or a cat that is just
diagnosed with kidney disease

697
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,320
and maybe it's a stage one,
maybe even a stage 2 that you

698
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,640
know, your vet is telling you.
I.

699
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:40,680
Personally cannot see decreasing
the protein for this animal.

700
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:45,280
Like yes, we need to work on
kidney health, but decreasing

701
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,400
protein isn't the way to Do you
want to talk a little bit about

702
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:53,000
what you learned with creating?
This stuff more than happy to so

703
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:58,200
IIA 100% agree with you.
You know, the, the, I think, I

704
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:05,760
think perhaps veterinarians when
they give guidance, right about

705
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,240
kidney health, it gets
oversimplified.

706
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:16,840
And so because phosphorus is
found very in high levels in

707
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:23,040
most meats and organs, right,
that low phosphorus diet gets

708
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,960
translated into or interpreted
as low protein.

709
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:32,120
And but low protein diets are
bad, like they're bad for kidney

710
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:36,800
health for so many reasons in
because of the ones you named.

711
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:42,560
Also, because uremic toxins can
are already causing a breakdown

712
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:49,080
of muscle in, in the body and
generally kidney disease, you

713
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,840
know, it's not like kidney
disease happens in a vacuum in

714
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,040
the body.
Kidney disease happens because

715
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,200
there's a whole bunch of other
things playing a role in there.

716
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,600
Thyroid generally gets thrown in
there.

717
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:04,000
Pancreatic, pancreatic issues,
diabetes gets, you know, thrown

718
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,960
into all of that complex disease
process generally.

719
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:13,320
And, and those things are going
to cause accumulation of fat and

720
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:17,480
muscle tissue, which breaks down
fat and makes us, you know, weak

721
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,880
and stiff and sore.
And that leads to more

722
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,320
deconditioning, right, That we
started talking about at the

723
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,880
outset, right?
The, the problem that our dogs

724
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,320
or the way our dogs differ from
the wild ancestors is that

725
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:32,520
they're more, you know, more
prone to deconditioning.

726
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:36,640
So, but protein is really,
really important for, for kidney

727
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:40,840
dogs because the nature of that
disease is to cause muscle

728
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,880
wasting.
And the fastest way to get to

729
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,760
get sicker is to not move,
right.

730
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,160
And so you need muscle to move,
You need muscle to feel better.

731
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:55,160
Exercise is going to release
endorphins in your body

732
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,040
naturally making you feel
better.

733
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,240
It's going to increase the
health and size of the

734
00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:01,920
hippocampus, making your brain
better, you know, and all of

735
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:03,280
that.
And your brain and your brain

736
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:04,560
health is tied into your kidney
health.

737
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:09,120
So when we talk about protein
and in particular animal

738
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:13,800
protein, so animal proteins are
high in branched chant amino

739
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:18,040
acids like isoleucine and
leucine and these things, you

740
00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:21,960
know, generally speaking, in fed
states, muscle protein synthesis

741
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:23,840
exceeds muscle protein
breakdown, right?

742
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:28,000
And they'll reverse is true in
fasted states, but but animal

743
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:33,440
protein causes it's least
studies show that it it is

744
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:37,760
linked or causes a higher and
more sustained synthesis of

745
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,320
protein in our body, which we
need.

746
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,840
It was just how muscle is made
right.

747
00:46:43,240 --> 00:46:47,640
And so making sure that we get
enough meat in our diet helps

748
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:51,040
with that, that protein.
So there's a whole cascade of

749
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,760
problems, right, when we have
kidney health and, and our

750
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,040
kidney issues.
So, you know, generally

751
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,680
speaking, it's, you know, we
have the microscopic little

752
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:04,520
filters in our kidneys, right?
And, and they, their job is, is

753
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,680
to, you know, obviously to
filter.

754
00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:10,600
And so when we have problems or
generally we'll have circulatory

755
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:15,240
micro circulation problems that
cause not enough nutrients

756
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:19,160
reaching those kidneys and
reaching those microscopic

757
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,480
filters and that that's what
causes that problem.

758
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,680
So when we have later stages in
the disease, we're not able to

759
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,240
control acid based balance in
our body really well.

760
00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:34,560
We can't control or regulate
electrolytes and water very

761
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,200
well.
So we're having, we might have

762
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,200
had hypertension, but now we've
got a worsening of hypertension

763
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:44,000
and that creates a cyclical
process of further damaging

764
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,840
those blood vessels.
We have eventually become anemic

765
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:51,360
in later stages of the disease
because erythropoietin is the

766
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,160
hormone that's released by the
kidneys that tells our bone

767
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:58,360
marrow to make red blood cells.
And our kidneys are involved in

768
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:05,440
glucose because it manufacturers
glucose from amino acids at at a

769
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,000
rate that's pretty much rivals
the liver.

770
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,560
And so that organ is really
important for, for that

771
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:14,200
function.
So, you know, I mean, I'm, I

772
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:18,880
think I'm rambling on, but, but,
but maintaining, you know, but

773
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:22,320
protein is really important.
Making sure we're getting enough

774
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,400
dark, you know, dark leafy
cruciferous greens in our diet

775
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,440
is really important because
they're alkalizing And our

776
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,080
kidneys, you know, if they're
not functioning properly, our

777
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:34,840
body's going to become acidic.
So, you know, we want to make

778
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,160
sure we have that fresh food
diets are super important,

779
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,600
right?
Because kidneys need water to be

780
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,640
able to do their job really,
really well.

781
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:47,560
And dry food diets are just the,
I mean, they've got, they've got

782
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,040
to be as equally bad as low
protein diets for kidney

783
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:55,080
disease.
I agree.

784
00:48:56,160 --> 00:49:00,040
I mean, I tell people all the
time like hydration as a hill

785
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:05,240
I'm going to die on over and
above anything else, hydration

786
00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:10,600
is, is the hill I will die on.
But so you have been able with

787
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:15,600
the restorative diet for the one
that's called Jing for kidney,

788
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:19,200
you have been able to do the low
phosphorus well as you said,

789
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,840
keeping the protein exactly.
Right.

790
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:26,200
So what we're using in in that
one is so our protein sources

791
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,520
are egg whites.
So egg whites are really, really

792
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,960
high in protein, but but really
low in phosphorus.

793
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,360
So we're getting a lot of
protein from that.

794
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:40,960
We're also using the whole egg
because we need choline levels

795
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:44,000
and we, it's really important
for us to get natural choline

796
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,520
because synthetic choline is
very damaging to the kidneys.

797
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:52,040
And you know, believe it or not,
prescription or therapeutic

798
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,240
diets or kidney like kidney
friendly diets have synthetic

799
00:49:55,240 --> 00:49:58,160
choline in them.
So I would encourage people to

800
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,960
try to find another alternative
than that diet.

801
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:05,280
So, so we, we're utilizing whole
eggs to get the choline in them,

802
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,480
but not as not not enough so
that you know, our phosphorus

803
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,240
levels are really high.
And then we're also using pork

804
00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:16,680
kidney because kidney, pork
kidney is energetically neutral.

805
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:23,440
It's nutrient dense and rich
protein source inspired at low

806
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,720
phosphorus and inspired by the
principle of like heels like.

807
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,920
So those are those are
predominant protein sources that

808
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:31,600
that we're using in, in that
recipe.

809
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:36,160
I love that.
And I know you do have another

810
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:41,400
call to get to soon.
So, yeah, I think this was so

811
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:46,600
incredibly informative and this
is, you know, going to help

812
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:51,880
people both with understanding
pet food labels a little bit

813
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:56,720
more, which, you know, the
reality is that not everybody

814
00:50:56,720 --> 00:51:01,560
out there is able to feed 100%
fresh food diets all the time.

815
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:07,680
So providing information to
people to be able to make the

816
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,840
best decisions possible with the
information they have available

817
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,280
to them is, is so important to
me.

818
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:19,760
I tell people all the time, like
what, you know, I get asked a

819
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:24,000
question, what if I, you know,
I'm just in that financial

820
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:29,560
situation where I, I can only
afford kibble and I'm like, OK,

821
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:35,080
let's do like the some of the
cheapest kibble and put as much

822
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:38,400
of that budget into fresh foods
on top of it.

823
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:43,680
Like let's, you know, because
the reality is ultra processed

824
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:47,080
food is ultra processed food.
And we can argue semantics about

825
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,200
the quality of ingredients and
different ultra processed foods,

826
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:54,640
but it's still ultra processed,
right?

827
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,640
I think I think that that's good
advice, right?

828
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:01,960
I mean as much as much of that
ultra processed food as you can

829
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:05,200
replace with Whole Foods.
You know, if it if it means

830
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:10,800
that, OK, instead of buying a
high end kibble, I'm going to

831
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:14,720
buy a low end kibble, right.
I mean, obviously there's there

832
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:17,080
are really bad ones, but you
know, Yeah, yeah.

833
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,240
For sure.
Like I, I, I gotcha right.

834
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:26,560
Then take that money and, and
apply it to a a whole food diet

835
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:29,920
as and mix it in as much as I
can, you know, Bravo.

836
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,600
You know, I mean, I think that
that's, that's a really great

837
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,120
approach.
Yeah.

838
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:38,800
And, you know, they're, they're
designed to be, you know, all of

839
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,920
them are designed to be either
whole, the whole food or a mix

840
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:44,040
in or a Topper.
I mean, that was really

841
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,840
important for us too, is, you
know, we've got herbs and

842
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:49,800
medicinal mushrooms in there at
therapeutic levels, But they're

843
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,520
they are things that you can
have every day.

844
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,920
And, you know, for the long
term, because kidney disease

845
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,200
really is not necessarily it's
not something you cure.

846
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,320
It's just something that you so
slow the progression of.

847
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:07,160
Oh yes for sure.
I think it's like 1 of the only,

848
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:09,680
the only organ that doesn't
really regenerate, right.

849
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:15,720
Like, yeah, yeah.
So I, I, I love everything

850
00:53:15,720 --> 00:53:17,880
you're doing.
And goodness gracious, I'm super

851
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:21,680
excited about the new
restorative diets for dogs.

852
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:26,040
And you do have cat recipes in
your regular.

853
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:27,880
Yeah, we do.
We do.

854
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:32,560
Which I love, especially if
people can get their cats

855
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:35,400
transitioned earlier on in life.
I mean, it's still possible

856
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,120
later on in life, but much, much
harder.

857
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,280
So I never want to leave the
kiddies out of it because they

858
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,560
are super, super important to
me.

859
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:49,320
And I think possibly often like
they, they get less veterinary

860
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,760
care than dogs do.
I think more often than not

861
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:58,040
they're fed more poorly than
dogs because they are so

862
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:01,800
finicky.
They are implant, implant,

863
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:06,640
imprint theater.
It's just harder, harder to

864
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,120
transition them.
So the earlier the better.

865
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:13,200
But I love that you also have
some some cat recipes for people

866
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:17,920
and where can people find you?
Where can they buy the food?

867
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:19,320
How can they follow you on
social?

868
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,680
Because Oh my gosh, the
information you have is so

869
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:23,040
incredible.
Oh.

870
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:24,240
Thank you.
Yeah, yeah.

871
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:29,840
So, so we're on Facebook, we're
on Instagram, Goodness gracious

872
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:33,960
Pat and our website, Goodness
gracious Co.

873
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:39,400
You can find us there.
You can order online and then or

874
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:44,240
depending upon where you live,
you could find it in, in your

875
00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:47,640
local store.
So if anybody wants to e-mail

876
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:50,440
our customer service, if they
don't see it in their local

877
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,720
store, e-mail us and we'll try
to point you in the right

878
00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:55,720
direction.
We're, we're not nationwide yet.

879
00:54:55,720 --> 00:54:57,280
We're, we're working on it,
right?

880
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:02,800
But you know, 11 place at a
time, one step at a time.

881
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:06,040
So yeah, absolutely.
Well, I certainly appreciate you

882
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,720
and everything that you do to
make pets lives better.

883
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:13,040
I can't wait to see you speak in
person again one day.

884
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:15,880
And I don't guys.
I'm just.

885
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,160
Going to say I'm going to be at
the Nautical Dog event in July.

886
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:22,480
So that'll be that'll be fine.
And then there's a couple of

887
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:24,880
other things that are
potentially coming up, but we'll

888
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:29,000
talk about those.
When they're official, I, I do

889
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:30,960
love going to the knuckle dog
event.

890
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:35,280
I get to kind of do a duel.
That's where I'm from Hampton

891
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,480
Roads.
So I go like, I go to the event

892
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:40,320
and then I go like see my
family.

893
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:46,400
So it's like a kill.
Well, I go, I, I generally I'll

894
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:49,160
go to North Carolina, see my
grandparents, then I'll go to

895
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:53,160
the event and then I'll go to
Suffolk and see my family.

896
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:56,640
And so I get to, you know, kill
a whole bunch of birds with 1

897
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:02,440
stuff.
But thank you again, Amy.

898
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,840
I so appreciate you.
And for everybody listening,

899
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:09,640
please check the show notes for
hopefully some simplified math

900
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:14,400
that you can just copy and paste
into your notes app and the

901
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:19,320
links to for goodness gracious
and all of all of that wonderful

902
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:22,000
information.
I do hope you check it out and

903
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:26,160
try it out for your pets.
And yeah, until next time, Amy,

904
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:28,240
thank you so much.
Thank you, Jessica.

905
00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:29,760
Take care.
Bye bye.