189. Before You Spay or Neuter Your Dog, LISTEN TO THIS! (Vet Warning)

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Welcome back, pet parent.
I am so excited to bring this

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guest back on the podcast for
you.

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It has been a while for you, not
for me.

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I fortunately get to talk to her
quite regularly, which is

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amazing.
Doctor Ruth Roberts is back with

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us today and we're going to be
talking about so many things.

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Buckle up.
Thank you so much for being here

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with us, Doctor Ruth.
It is my pleasure, this will be

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a lot of fun.
Yeah, so I have learned so many

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things from you and there's so
many more things to learn, but

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one of the things that I don't
want to say I had the hardest

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time with, I definitely don't.
I try to keep a very open mind,

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even with things that like I
have a lot of resistance in my

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body too.
I try to keep an open mind.

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But coming from the rescue
world, I definitely was.

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Well, I was indoctrinated to so
many things, but one of the

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things it was probably one of
the last things that I kind of

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have dropped is this idea of
spaying and neutering every

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animal that comes through a
rescue or I mean, even breeders.

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I know I like breeders.
I feel like mostly do it just

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because they don't want you
profiting off of their

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bloodline.
But most people are getting

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their animals from shelters and
rescues at this point.

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And there's kind of a a
mandatory when you adopt this

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animal, they're going to be
spayed or neutered.

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And while there's understanding
and what they're doing, because

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of how hectic and crazy their
lives are and just how in

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turmoil they are with the work
that they do, it can actually be

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pretty detrimental.
So I would love for you to tell

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us a little bit about what you
have found in researching so

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many things that have been going
wrong throughout your career in

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dogs, dogs and cats, but I think
more so in dogs and how you have

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related this back to early spay
and neuter.

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And I think that like there's a
lot of codicils around what I'm

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about to say and the one I'm
going to put out there that is

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the the truth is that it is a
big problem.

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Early spay and neutering is a
massive problem.

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However, I don't want to go back
to the way things were when I

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started practice in 1990.
And we don't have a good set of

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answers for how to handle this
yet.

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Having said that, and we can go
back to some of that stuff a

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little bit later, what I
realized, so in 1990, I'm in

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rural South Carolina as a young
veterinarian, 90% of the dogs

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live outside, often chained,
sometimes with shade.

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I mean, just all of the things
that's bad about how pets get

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treated, right?
But what I was treating then

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were hit by car cases, broken
legs being sewn up from dog

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fights, you know, so blunt
trauma and, you know, trauma

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from, from pet fights.
I mean, dog fights mostly and

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cat fights and cat abscesses and
all of that.

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And it was like cancer.
So cool.

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This will be fun.
Which sounds bananas, right?

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But because it was challenging
mentally to really have to shift

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gears and to see a dog or cat
come in with cancer was really

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rare, you know, and so was
Cushing's disease, and so was

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Addison's disease and kidney
failure and yadda, yadda, yadda,

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yadda.
So one of the things I'd like to

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help folks remember when I came
out of Veteransville in 1990,

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the average lifespan of a dog
was eight years.

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OK.
Because it like in undeveloped

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countries, they're dying of
trauma, right?

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They're dying of being hit by a
car, of being in an abse fight,

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you know, things like that.
Yes, there was pyometras, Yes,

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there was breast cancer.
Rarely there was prostate

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cancer.
Rarely there was benign

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prostatic hyperplasia and
prostatic abscesses.

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So all of the diseases we
associate with animals being

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intact in mid to late 90s.
So we're at eight years in 1990,

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as in the average survival time
for a dog, or median lifespan,

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half below, half above.
In 2000, we'd gotten to 12.

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Whoo Hoo, we're doing good
stuff.

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And what had started happening?
We started talking about spaying

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and neutering, keeping your dog
inside, keeping it protected

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from the heat, the humidity, the
fleas, the ticks, the

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everything.
And people had started bringing

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their pets inside and making
them part of the family.

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So now the dog was inside, but
it still couldn't get on the

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sofa and definitely not on the
bed.

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And they were still spending a
lot of time outside.

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And I would say at that point,
we're like 5050 spayed and

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neutered versus intact.
So now we're making progress.

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We've protected them from the
trauma stuff that happened early

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in life.
We've gotten them from 8:00 to

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12:00, which is amazing, right?
That's a 30% increase in their

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lifespan in less than a decade.
That's insanity.

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I mean, we should love, you
know, we can figure that out

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that that's the Holy Grail.
And all we had done was really,

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we were spaying a neutering war,
but we were also protecting them

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more and making them more of an
integral part of our family.

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And then Fast forward to 2000
and I went from being able to

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take a hamangiosarcoma literally
the size of a basketball out of

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a dog's abdomen, throw it in the
trash can, clean up the abdomen,

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soap the dog.
The dog never looked back.

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Spleen was gone.
They did OK. 2 They're dying in

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six months from hamangiosarcoma.
And what had happened?

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We developed this mantra of
spaying and neutering by 6

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months of age at that point in
that we took it even younger.

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And we're starting to see
radical changes in the biology

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of cancer, in the number of
cases of Cushing's disease, you

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know, atopy of allergies, of all
of these things that we are

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fighting tooth and nail right
now.

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And I'm thinking what has
happened?

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And so this is the only thing I
could find, but I didn't there

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was nothing to say.
Yep, this is part of the

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problem.
Until 2013 when the first UC

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Davis paper came out about
golden retrievers and there they

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showed the link in their in
their medical records.

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If the male dog, male golden
retriever was intact, the

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incidence of cranial Croatian
rupture was 0, and the incidence

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of other cancers were really,
really lower versus dogs that

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had been neutered.
So this was the first research

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paper to make a correlation, not
a causation, a correlation

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between spaying and neutering
and chronic disease.

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And what they looked at in that
first paper was bone and joint

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issues and cancers.
And they went on to expand that

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research into endocrine
diseases.

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And you know, the the next paper
was golden retrievers and

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Labradors.
And while the incidence of these

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diseases was still less in
Labradors, it was much a marked

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difference between intact and
spayed and neutered dogs there

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for that breed.
So that was the first like

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finally, and, you know, we
started and this week this, the

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University of Tennessee test for
atypical Cushings, which is

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basically estrogen dominance,
had come out.

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And I had several conversations
with endocrinologists at UT at

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that time.
And they're like, yeah.

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And yeah, we probably need to
figure out something about

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hormone replacement.
But, you know, that's 2013.

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And here we are, 11 years later
with nothing, nothing different.

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Wow.
I mean, I have to say that like

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growing up, all of our pets were
outdoors and that bothered me so

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much, so much So they like as a
teenager, I was, there was no

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way I was going to have a pet.
Like when I grew up and moved

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out, like I couldn't, I just
couldn't.

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My heart was like, no, there's
something wrong here.

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So having animals like in the
home with me to me feels like

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that's huge.
I mean, I wouldn't want to go

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back.
But also at the same time,

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understanding their need for
outdoor time, for enrichment,

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for being outside and still
doing my best to protect them.

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Like that's, I think there,
there's a balance there that we

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need to strive for at least.
And but I don't want to go back.

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I don't really don't want to go
back, no.

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No, because that was bad.
I mean, you know, kind of how

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heartbreaking this beautiful 10
month old puppy that, you know,

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got out because there's a female
dog down the street got hit by a

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car and killed.
No, we don't want that.

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Yeah, yeah, you're right.
There's a balance somewhere.

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There has to be a balance
somewhere and whether that

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certainly I'm sure
pharmaceutical companies would

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love to find some sort of
balance in a prescription or a

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hormone replacement, which I'm
not knocking, but it takes time

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to get something from like human
medicine into into veterinary

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medicine.
I understand, yeah.

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This is really taking time.
You know, I think that there is

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a company that's developing a
test to help veterinarians

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understand when a dog has
reached sexual maturity, which

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will prevent all of the side
effects, but it will reduce them

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significantly.
And at least we will have gotten

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them to sexual maturity before
their gonads are removed.

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But that's just now being
studied.

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And that's not even opening the
discussion to hormone

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replacement therapy.
Yeah.

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So really, I think even before
we talk about or any

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pharmaceutical company gets
involved, though I'm sure they

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would love to, it is so much
about educating pet parents,

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educating the people out there
who have pets in and around

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their homes, because I'm sure
there are still people that have

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their pets outdoors and
understanding that this could be

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an issue, probably will be an
issue.

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And what are some steps to take?
One, if you have any control

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over spaying and neutering that
animal.

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So I'm sure there certainly are
plenty of people out there who

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are just, you know, somebody's
dog down the street had puppies

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and so they're passing them out
like candy, right?

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And then in that case, you have
control over bringing this dog

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into your home, giving them
vaccines, saying and neutering

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them, all of the things you have
control over that.

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So that's one case.
And what are your thoughts there

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around saying and neutering?
If you have control over it,

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just don't.
Yeah, I mean that is the simple

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answer.
And there are, again, there's a

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lot of codicils around this.
So if your plan is to be able to

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board your dog, not spaying and
neutering can create a massive

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problem because the daycare
facilities, the boarding

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facilities, the dog parks,
because these are all businesses

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that are covered by insurance,
their insurance may require them

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to deny access to dogs that are
still intact because of course,

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male dogs that are intact are
more aggressive, which is not

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so.
So there's a lot of things.

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So you have to that OT that
would be optimal for every dog.

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However, you have to live with
the intact dog and if you have 4

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four year olds running around
your house, that could be a

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nightmare to have an intact dog
and kids that are just going to

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open the door for the dog that
then we're creating the

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situation that I came to age of
as a young veterinarian where

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there are so many dogs being hit
by a car or getting into a fight

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or something like this.
So there's the there's the easy

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answer and then there's the
answer for your family.

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I.
Know so there are options, maybe

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not all veterinarians have the
training and all of the options,

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but it's available and there
are.

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So for male dogs there are a
couple of options and for female

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dogs there are a few more
options.

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Do you have any preferences?
There.

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So, yeah, so I mean, I think
again, like in the United

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States, there is AAI can't get
the word, the depository of a

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gonadotropin releasing,
releasing hormone, inhibiting

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hormone.
And it is marketed in other

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countries as a way to chemically
castrate animals.

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The implants last for a period
of 6 to 12 months in the United

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States.
They're available for ferrets,

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but they can be used off label.
So some folks have been

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successful in asking their
veterinarians to order that to

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do the research, sharing the
website for the manufacturer and

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saying, hey, this is, you know,
can you, can you help me out

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with this?
Sometimes it works, often it

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does not.
The next best option is ovary

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sparing spay or a vasectomy, and
the Parsimus Foundation has been

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very active in providing
information about why early

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spaying and neutering or spay
and neuter syndrome as a result

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of that is a problem and the
impact it's created on dog

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health.
They also have been active in

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creating training videos for
veterinarians to learn how to do

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these procedures.
Now a vasectomy, honestly, it's

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going to take a little bit of
time to learn it, but it's

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easier than doing a regular
castration and much less chance

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of bleeding, etcetera, etcetera.
Ovariesparing spay.

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Also to my mind, I mean, that
would be relatively easy.

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The interesting thing is, is
that when you can find a

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veterinarian that does this
often they're charging 1200

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dollars, $1600 to do the
procedure.

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So it's a significant cost
difference between doing nothing

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and or doing a conventional spay
or neuter.

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And then recently one of our our
colleagues, one of our holistic

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pet health coach colleagues is
facing this issue with our own

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dog.
And our local veterinarian said,

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Oh yes, we can just do a
hysterectomy or excuse me, do

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ovaryctomy and leave the uterus.
And yes, that will prevent a

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00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:50,200
pyometer or uterine infection
from occurring, but it's not

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going to provide significant
benefit in terms of hormones.

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And after a while, yes, there's
a little bit more with the

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00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:59,760
uterus, but that goes away
pretty quickly.

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And the deal is, is that in the
EU, this is when they do spay

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and neuter.
This is a more common procedure

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00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,600
because they just, you can do
this laparoscopically, less

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traumatic to the animal, but you
still have the same health,

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00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,720
deleterious effects on the
health by removing the ovaries

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00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,680
only as you would with removing
the testes only.

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00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,400
So there's all of that.
Well, some.

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Quite a few of my listeners are
two point O pet parents and I

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00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,360
would love because you we've
talked, you've talked about some

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00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:37,360
of the issues that you saw
around early spay and neuter,

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00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,000
the cancers, Cushings,
Addison's, things like that,

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00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,760
endocrine disorders.
Would you mind?

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00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,440
And and then you just brought up
hormones.

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00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:49,280
So would you mind explaining a
little bit as to why you feel

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00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,760
like you're saying like what's
actually going on when we spay

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00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:56,120
and neuter an animal early?
Why is this so detrimental to

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00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,600
their health?
So the curious thing is, is that

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00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,960
we're talking mostly about dogs.
For cats, I think there is some,

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00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:08,400
there are some issues, but it
does not seem to be as profound

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00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,840
As for dogs.
So what we know from the science

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00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,240
and much of this research was
done by Doctor Michelle Kutzler

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00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,880
at Oregon State at Corvallis
Veterinary School.

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00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,560
She is a theoryogenologist,
somebody that specializes in

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00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,640
breeding and reproduction.
So how she got onto this I'm not

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00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:26,200
quite sure, but I'm glad she
did.

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00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,120
And what she found is that in
dogs after they are spayed and

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00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,320
neutered, the levels of
luteinizing hormone.

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00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:37,760
And so maybe what I should do is
back up a little bit and talk

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00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,360
about how this works normally.
So this will make a little more

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00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:41,560
sense.
Let's try that.

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00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,320
There's we think of the sex, sex
glands, the ovaries, the testes,

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00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,720
everything's there.
Well, they have to get told,

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00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,080
hey, we need some levels of
progesterone increased or

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00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,880
estrogen or testosterone.
Those are the three primary sex

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00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,040
hormones.
They are in both sexes,

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00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,680
obviously males, more
testosterone, in females, more

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00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,840
progesterone.
For the most part, estrogen only

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00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,440
gets increased when the dog, the
bitch goes through a heat cycle.

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00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,359
So, but you know, when they're
out of the heat cycle, there's

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00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,200
enough levels of these hormones
to keep them functioning

284
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,520
normally, happy, healthy,
everything's in harmony.

285
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,319
So where does all that start?
In the hypothalamus, it receives

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00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:23,920
the signal that one of those 3
hormones is dropping down.

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00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,800
And so it tells the anterior
pituitary, hey, things are not

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00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,520
right here, we need to create
some more hormone.

289
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,600
And so the anterior pituitary
produces gonadotropin releasing

290
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,640
hormone, which then goes to the
gonads, the ovaries, the testes

291
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,880
and starts to produce
luteinizing hormone and hollicle

292
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,240
stimulating hormone along with
estrogen, progesterone,

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00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,720
testosterone.
So that's the normal feedback

294
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,000
mechanism.
The hormone levels rise up, It

295
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,240
tells the hypothalamus we're all
good here.

296
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,640
You can slow down the signals,
we're peachy hunky Dory.

297
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:03,720
So when we remove the gonads,
which are now the feedback

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00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,640
mechanism to tell the
hypothalamus, we're all good,

299
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,880
there's no shut off valve for
the feedback mechanism.

300
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,360
So the hypothalamus is like,
what the heck, guys, I'm telling

301
00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:15,120
you to make this stuff and
nothing is happening.

302
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,880
So it pumps out more and more
and more and more and more.

303
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:22,920
And then what we see is that the
levels of luteinizing hormones

304
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:28,560
go sky high and they can be
anywhere from 3X that of an

305
00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:33,120
intact animal to up to 30X the
intact animal's level.

306
00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:36,480
What then happens, and this is
where the problems get created,

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00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:41,800
is that these elevated levels of
luteinizing hormone are

308
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,200
circulating all through the
bloodstream and tissues that

309
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,840
should not have luteinizing
hormone receptors develop

310
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,800
receptors.
And so now the luteinizing

311
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,800
hormone can come down and
interact with a cell it

312
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,880
shouldn't.
And what's happening is either

313
00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:01,560
proteins are being, there are
too many proteins of a certain

314
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,640
type of communication for that
cell being produced, no proteins

315
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,000
being produced or in an
inappropriate quantity.

316
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,360
So what does that mean?
So let's take the example of

317
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:18,440
canine cruciate rupture.
What's happening is those

318
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:23,480
hormone receptors in the
cruciate ligament are being

319
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,560
saturated with luteinizing
hormone.

320
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,800
And when that happens, the
tissue proteins are not being

321
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,880
coded correctly so that the
tissue becomes weaker and more

322
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,240
likely to rupture.
And when it finally does, a

323
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,920
second thing happens.
It's a very specific type of

324
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,080
collagen ligament in or in that
ligament.

325
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,080
And when that's exposed to the
immune system, if the other

326
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,120
crociate begins to get weakened
or stressed, the immune system

327
00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:56,360
sees that protein and comes and
attack the opposite leg.

328
00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,160
So that's why it's so common.
If a dog blows 1 crociate, it

329
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,080
often blows the other one in a
very short period of time.

330
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,240
And then you can repeat that
scenario with wherever you can

331
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,640
think of a chronic disease in
the adrenal glands.

332
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,520
It can create Addison's disease
and we we should see Addison's

333
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,320
disease in young puppies.
Now we're seeing it in dogs as

334
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,000
old as 5-6 years of age.
Cushing's disease, which we

335
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,040
should see in an old dog and now
we're seeing that in dogs as

336
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,280
young as 5 or 6 years of age.
You know, hip dysplasia, joint

337
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,160
sort of cartilage malformations,
kidney disease, liver disease,

338
00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:38,000
inflammatory bowel disease,
atopy, which is an immune

339
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,840
mediated allergy response.
That's way over the top there.

340
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:46,200
This, this, these high levels of
LH have been associated with

341
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,360
increased rates of atopy
cancers.

342
00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:52,880
What's happening is the immune
system is not surveilling

343
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,240
properly.
And so these horrible, horrible

344
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,880
cancers are able to get a
foothold and just go like mad.

345
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:03,160
But just got to the point where,
like I said, in my early career,

346
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,720
seeing a dog with lymphoma was
rare and kind of fun and

347
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,640
exciting because now I had an
opportunity to help these guys

348
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,680
in a different way.
It got to the point where we're

349
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,000
seeing lymphoma in six year old
dogs.

350
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:21,760
And at one point in my career, I
had this 4 month old Wymer on

351
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,600
her puppy that I could not
figure out what was going on.

352
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,360
There was something in the
abdomen, X-rays were weird,

353
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,960
ultrasound was weird.
And finally we decided to take

354
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,000
the dog to surgery.
This dog had fulminant lymphoma

355
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,280
all over its abdomen.
And I mean at four months of

356
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:40,720
age, that's just insanity.
So that's kind of the mechanism

357
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,280
of what's going on when we spay
a neuter early.

358
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,720
Wow, wow.
And I think, I mean, that's just

359
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:53,960
the things that you can measure
and see because when I, when I

360
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:58,280
really like start to think about
it and I think about women going

361
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,600
through perimenopause and
menopause because I'm about

362
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:05,120
there and I'm, I'm seeing
everywhere online, you know, get

363
00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:08,600
ready all of these symptoms and
you know, the brain fog and the

364
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,280
mood swings and that like, I
mean, I can only imagine this

365
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,960
potentially causing a lot of
behavioral issues and animals as

366
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:17,800
well.
Absolutely.

367
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,880
I mean, and that's the, you
know, I didn't say anything

368
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,080
about the brain, but that's why
we're seeing so many behavioral

369
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:27,920
issues so much just irrational
fear about stuff and canine

370
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:32,880
cognitive dysfunction.
So it's just it is system wide

371
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,000
in the body, which is
horrifying, so.

372
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:40,520
The big question then is what I
always see any time I talk about

373
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:44,120
spay and neuter.
All the people on my socials are

374
00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:48,840
like, my gosh, I cannot believe
I did this to my animal and what

375
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:50,480
do I do next?
So going.

376
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:55,080
Back to your example about
menopause in women, here's what

377
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,000
I can tell you.
When Mary Jo went through

378
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,280
menopause, it was horrid for
her.

379
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,200
Like she started at 45, hot
flashes, couldn't sleep, awful.

380
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:10,880
Weight gain, horrible, horrible.
She was eating a lot of sugar

381
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,400
and drinking wine.
So what I'm here to tell you is

382
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,600
that, Oh my God, I did this to
my animal.

383
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,880
No, you were following the best
advice at the time that you had.

384
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:25,400
And so it's done.
We can't, we can't put the

385
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,360
ovaries back in.
We can't put the testes back in.

386
00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:32,960
But you have power over all the
other choices for your dog's

387
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:37,880
life, over what you feed, over
vaccines, medicines, you know,

388
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,960
the flea and tick stuff, all of
those things.

389
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:47,000
And so then now what you need to
do is treat your baby gingerly,

390
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,920
carefully and with intent to
create a situation of health

391
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:57,160
rather than allow the health to
be further derailed by other

392
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,520
options that are not the most
beneficial ones.

393
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:00,960
So everybody, take a deep
breath.

394
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:02,840
Yeah.
Take a deep breath.

395
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,480
Not your fault, it really isn't,
and it was not our intent.

396
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,520
It was not the intent of the
veterinary profession or the

397
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,120
space or the SPCA's to create
this.

398
00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:17,760
I mean, it's just the rule of
unintended consequences kicking

399
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,240
us in the butt.
Yeah, well, and, and that was

400
00:24:20,360 --> 00:24:23,200
kind of how I started out this
episode was.

401
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:28,920
I mean, I, I did, I spent like a
decade in rescue and the,

402
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:31,880
anytime anybody asks me
anything, I'm like spay and I

403
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,240
don't care what I was talking
about.

404
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:34,680
I'm like spay and do your pets
right?

405
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,240
Because it's, it's so
overwhelming in the shelter,

406
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,480
shelters and rescues.
You feel like it's never going

407
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,920
to end and this is the only
solution.

408
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:54,560
And so it, it's, it's good that
we are realizing the the

409
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:59,520
unintended harm that was caused.
And then again, as you said,

410
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,720
take a breath.
There are things you can do.

411
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,640
We just have to manage
everything else in their life.

412
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,680
Which exactly brings me to the
second thing I wanted to talk to

413
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,120
you about today, because I think
that's a good place to talk

414
00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:18,000
about pet health coaches.
And I would love for you to tell

415
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,200
our listener a little bit about
this newish program that you

416
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:27,160
have going on, the certification
and what not just what pet

417
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,480
health coaches can do for them
or what they can do if they want

418
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:36,200
to become a pet health coach,
but kind of your vision for long

419
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,360
term in the world.
Right on.

420
00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:44,000
So this program was modeled
after human health coaching and

421
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,600
back in the day, back in the 80s
when the insurance companies

422
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,680
told the doctor, OK, you've got
15 minutes in the exam room and

423
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,720
you're out of there and on to
the next one or you're going to

424
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,160
get penalized, right?
So what happens is the doc walks

425
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,760
in and he says, Jess, your H1 AC
is elevated.

426
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,280
This is pre diabetic.
If you don't get this under

427
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,080
control, you're going to become
diabetic.

428
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,000
And on insulin, Betty's going to
come in and tell you what to do.

429
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,960
And Betty was the nurse.
So this was the was coaching in

430
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:16,520
its infancy and where it went
from there is to people that

431
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:21,600
could help you understand what
it is your diagnosis was, you

432
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,440
know what whatever it was,
rheumatoid arthritis, diabetes,

433
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,440
inflammatory bowel disease,
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera,

434
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,960
and help you figure out
strategies to keep it under

435
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:39,320
control so that you could live a
happy healthy life and not

436
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,480
progress further down the down
the flow sheet into the

437
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,240
medication.
So from there, functional

438
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,520
medicine started having more of
a heyday around that time

439
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,800
because there were doctors that
are like, I can't talk to a

440
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,920
patient about diabetes in 15
minutes and neither can Betty.

441
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,680
So what can we do to help catch
these people before they get

442
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,000
further down that pathway and
turn them around?

443
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,840
And then, you know, from that,
you know, these guys were nut

444
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,800
bags back in the early 80s.
They were talking about things

445
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,320
like leaky gut.
They were talking about things

446
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,880
like metabolic syndrome, which
are now ICD 9 diagnosis in the

447
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,640
conventional Western world.
I mean, it's, it's incredible

448
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,600
how this has progressed.
I went from 15 telling showing

449
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,120
my GI doc a microbiome report
and she's like, I don't know

450
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:31,360
what this means.
And I looked at her and said,

451
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,840
you need to learn how to read
these because you will be in

452
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,640
five years.
And indeed, that is now part of

453
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:42,360
mainstream medicine.
So from this, you know, lack of

454
00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:45,760
time to educate the patient,
this whole industry was born.

455
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:50,640
And from the 80s to today, it is
now a $7 billion industry.

456
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:55,800
And what it has done is given
you and I, the average Joe with

457
00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,440
little to no health education,
the tools and the partner in our

458
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,360
health to help us figure out
what to do when Plan A doesn't

459
00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:06,080
quite work as well as we would
like.

460
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,840
And so a health coach would work
with you to look at your diet,

461
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,320
your lifestyle, your stress
level, what's your family life

462
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,640
like?
And how do you spend time having

463
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:17,840
fun?
Or do you actually take time to

464
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,360
have fun and go through all of
those things with you.

465
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,080
And that was my goal with the
Holistic Pet Health Coach

466
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,960
Certification program is to
create a group of people that

467
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:32,840
could understand the physiologic
reasons for why the dog has IBS,

468
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:38,000
why the cat has IBS, and
provides you, the pet parent,

469
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:43,320
the resources and the tools and
the partner the guide to help

470
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:49,040
you get your cat or your dog
from screaming diarrhea 6 * a

471
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,200
week.
The conventional meds help, but

472
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,840
we don't want to stay there all
the time to having that disease

473
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,480
under control or in remission as
long as you keep doing the steps

474
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,080
right.
And that's where it's hard for

475
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,240
the human health coaches.
We get better the the diarrhea

476
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,880
goes away if we have IBS and
then we want to go back to

477
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,320
eating Doritos and are like,
what happened?

478
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,200
I was better.
We can't eat the half.

479
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,760
That's why you got sick.
So that's the deal is that how

480
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,720
can we help pet parents have a
trusted guide that can help them

481
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,880
cut through all the noise on the
Internet and support them to

482
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,800
have better conversations with
veterinarians that are now in

483
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:32,240
that position of 6 to 12 minutes
per appointment and get out of

484
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,680
the room and on to the next one
or else you're penalized by

485
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,720
corporate the.
Noise of the Internet like that

486
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,920
was the very first thing I
started thinking of when you

487
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,720
were talking about even human
health coaching because I

488
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,440
rarely, rarely see like an
actual MD.

489
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,600
I use a lot.
I utilize a lot of what I have

490
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,840
around me, holistic
practitioners and just people I

491
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,840
know and do a lot of research
myself and the Internet.

492
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,520
Oh my God, like social, just
just being on a social media

493
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,680
platform.
You were served up so many ads

494
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,880
for so many different
supplements and this is going to

495
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,400
cure everything in your dog and
this is going to cure everything

496
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,520
in your cat.
And I'm like, holy moly, how do

497
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,680
people like no wonder, No wonder
we are.

498
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,600
Exactly and that's The thing is
that and it's tempting, right

499
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,280
because we all want that pill
that's going to fix it magically

500
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,920
and would be better two days and
that's not it just doesn't

501
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,400
happen that way.
If you took six years, you know,

502
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,280
to develop IBS as a human or if
you're you know, if we go back

503
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,080
to dogs, your dogs had screaming
diarrhea on and off for four

504
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,120
years, It's not going to get
better in a month.

505
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,600
And so there's going to be
layers that become revealed as

506
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,480
you start down the pathway to
health.

507
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:52,280
The substituting a supplement
for pharmaceutical medicine is

508
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,640
not going to cut it because
you're still not getting at the

509
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:01,600
root cause of the problem.
And that's where we've we've

510
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,440
strayed.
The DSHEA Act made it easier to

511
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,920
develop and market supplements,
which is good, but unfortunately

512
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,920
it's created this chaos of what
is useful and when should it be

513
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:18,200
used so.
This certification program, can

514
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,920
you tell me a little bit more
about that for anybody that may

515
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:27,040
be interested in in joining it
and and maybe dipping their toes

516
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,400
and being a pet health coach?
Right on.

517
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,640
So it is.
You're not going to dip your

518
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,640
toes, you're going to jump into
the river.

519
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:34,960
But we'll keep you from
drowning.

520
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:39,720
So maybe, probably so.
So this is the deal is that it's

521
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:40,720
designed.
It is.

522
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,320
First of all, the program is
accredited for 40 CE credits for

523
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,480
veterinarians and veterinary
technicians.

524
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,200
So it is not a week in
certification course where you

525
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,800
do the course and you get your
little diploma and you put it on

526
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,760
the wall.
And Jess, you're a mentor in the

527
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,000
course, so you are intimately
aware of what goes on.

528
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,280
But we divide it into several.
We've got 14 modules, some of

529
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:04,800
which are about building a
business.

530
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,480
Because when you finish this, we
want you to be successful and we

531
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,240
want you to go out there because
otherwise nothing is going to

532
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,320
change until we are loud and
proud.

533
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,600
But then we dive into basics of
functional medicine, traditional

534
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,920
Chinese veterinary medicine.
I am a home cooking advocate

535
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,040
because I was trained in TCBM.
So we teach the original

536
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,400
Crockpet diet, which is an
incredibly flexible home cooked

537
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:35,720
recipe, and then how to use that
to develop rotation and

538
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,160
elimination diets to help
support gut healing.

539
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,440
Woo Hoo.
And so from there then we dive

540
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:47,840
into more organ specific modules
and another business module in

541
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,400
there.
And then we wind up with the

542
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,720
really heavy duty stuff, which
is autoimmune disease and

543
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,280
cancer.
Along the way.

544
00:32:55,560 --> 00:33:01,160
We want you to be competent and
able to relate this information

545
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,760
to pet parents who are
struggling and are like, you

546
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,440
know, their deer in the
headlights in in 15 minutes in

547
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,400
conversation because they're
overwhelmed.

548
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,720
And it to that effect.
Part of the homework is a

549
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:19,040
multiple choice quiz, which is
easy but also written and

550
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:24,000
recorded video answers to case
questions.

551
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,640
And the reason that is so
important is we live in a video

552
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:32,960
world and if you are not able to
present yourself as eloquent,

553
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,040
confident and competent, people
will not believe you.

554
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,880
And so that is part of the skill
set that we help you develop.

555
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,880
The graduation requirements are
to video recorded consultations

556
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,640
with real pet parents and some
of the cases that the graduating

557
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:55,040
coaches are asked to take on.
I'm like, still like, my gosh, I

558
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,800
mean, and, and it's
overwhelming, but, and it's

559
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,760
things like a dog with Cushings
and Sards and this and that.

560
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,160
And it's like, Dang, how do we,
how do we even, you know, make

561
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,120
sense out of this?
And that's part of where the

562
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:12,600
coaching calls with me and the
weekly office calls with your

563
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:17,040
mentor come in handy because
we're not going to hold your

564
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,000
hand through it so much, but
we're going to help you learn

565
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,760
how to think your way through it
and where to start.

566
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,760
And are you going to.
And when this is a word we teach

567
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,040
the coaches never to say cure
cancer.

568
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,719
No, you are not.
But you are that pet parent and

569
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,280
that dog's best option in the
moment.

570
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:40,159
And the help that you can offer
with super simple changes that

571
00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:43,719
will create no harm is immense.
So for those pet.

572
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:48,880
Parents who are like, that's
amazing, but my plate's full.

573
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,400
I just want to work with a pet
health coach.

574
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,920
Maybe we can go back to the
whole early stay neuter.

575
00:34:54,920 --> 00:35:00,520
If if they were to work with a
pet health coach and say, I

576
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,920
don't know, they're, you know,
their dog is overweight.

577
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,440
They're concerned that there
there are some underlying

578
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,760
issues.
Maybe they've got all these

579
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,640
foods they can't eat or they
have Cushing's disease or

580
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,160
they're just struggling.
That's what I find more than

581
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,240
anything else is people are like
I've been.

582
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:19,040
To the vet.
So many.

583
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,480
Times and I'm just not getting,
I feel like I'm not getting

584
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,160
answers.
I feel like I'm not getting any

585
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,480
resolution.
How do you see a pet health

586
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:32,400
coach jumping in and helping a
pet parent with that and that

587
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,640
so?
This is and this is what it also

588
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,920
for pet parents are like there's
something that's not right, but

589
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,880
all the test results are normal.
This is the other situation

590
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,440
where this isn't coaches are
incredibly helpful.

591
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:48,040
And so the process of a coach
call is this, you would send

592
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,720
over a fairly detailed intake
form kind of describing

593
00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:55,240
everything that you're seeing
currently, previous health

594
00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:58,840
concerns that may or may not
have been resolved completely

595
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:04,720
and as many veterinary records
as you are able to send X-rays,

596
00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:09,000
lab work, all of that.
Now the job of the coach isn't

597
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,960
to interpret those and tell you
what the diagnosis is.

598
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:16,480
It's to be able to understand
the trends in your dog's health.

599
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,960
And also then I can further
support the coaches in

600
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,360
understanding what the
veterinarian has arrived at as

601
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:28,360
far as a diagnosis so that they
are better able to support their

602
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,720
clients and their clients pets.
And so once that initial

603
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:35,840
consultation is done, most
likely the coach is going to

604
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,920
talk with you about the basics
and that's diet.

605
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,040
You may already think you're
doing everything you can in

606
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,280
terms of diet, but there's
always a few new tricks.

607
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:50,920
And we love using Glacier Peaks
Pet Nut Wellness Scan to help us

608
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,920
understand what foods your pet
may or may not be sensitive to,

609
00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:58,440
which helps us better design a
diet and educate you further

610
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,960
about that.
And then we may try one or two

611
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,040
supplements to support the
general underlying issue.

612
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,880
And you know, in functional
medicine, it's almost always

613
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:13,200
leaky gut and over amount of
inflammation and a poor ability

614
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,600
to detoxify.
And so if the coach guides you

615
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,720
through doing those three
things, supporting those three

616
00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:23,120
systems, the changes we start to
see are immense.

617
00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:25,960
And again, you know, if your
dogs had diarrhea for four

618
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,560
years, it's not a one, one shot
call.

619
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,760
This is a process that's going
to take 6 to 8 months.

620
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,520
But because you now have a guide
that you trust and somebody that

621
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,720
can continue to educate you
through that process, now you've

622
00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:43,840
got a resource that helps you be
the best pet parent possible.

623
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,800
And when you do need to go to
the vet, to have very efficient

624
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,600
conversations with the
veterinarian and understand what

625
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,960
the tests are that the vet is
suggesting and to ask for other

626
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,120
tests that may be helpful in
narrowing down what's going on.

627
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:03,960
So it sounds.
Like a pet health coach is a

628
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:08,560
piece of the puzzle, is part of
a healthcare team that's going

629
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:12,800
to help you as a pet parent make
the best decisions for your pet

630
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:17,200
in your lifestyle and moving
forward to to have the

631
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,560
healthiest, happiest life they
can, which is the goal I think.

632
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:26,320
Exactly, you know, and so so so
that's it I mean, this is the

633
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:30,080
goal is to have a team approach.
I'm not saying that you'll never

634
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,080
need to see another veterinarian
in your life.

635
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:36,160
That's absolutely not it.
But because veterinarians are so

636
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:41,120
stressed and access to care is
so limited in many parts of the

637
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:45,760
country, when you have that
appointment, you need to be able

638
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,880
to have all of the information
to be your pet's best advocate.

639
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:53,360
And the coach may help you find
other team members.

640
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,320
You know, people that do massage
therapy, that do animal

641
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,240
communication, that do energy
work.

642
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,600
So there's a whole myriad of
people that can help you support

643
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,400
your pet so to kind.
Of pull this back around to spay

644
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,280
and neuter.
What you were saying when we

645
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:14,040
shifted gears is that you can't
put the ovaries back, you can't

646
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,840
put the testes back.
But what you can do is lifestyle

647
00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:22,000
changes in lifestyle factors.
And it sounds like this is

648
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,480
exactly what a pet coach is
designed to to help you through.

649
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:27,600
Right on.
And I will say.

650
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,360
This too, if your dog, your
female dog develops urinary

651
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,200
incontinence, ask for estrogen
because now you're actually

652
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:39,000
doing hormone replacement.
And if your male dog has

653
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,960
incontinence, you can ask them
about testosterone, but they

654
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:43,680
probably won't be super
confident.

655
00:39:44,720 --> 00:39:48,680
Also, if they have arthritis.
Old age changes the frailty of

656
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,280
aging, as the phrase goes.
Check out dogsterone.

657
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,160
And then basically you're doing
hormone replacement now.

658
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:59,360
Short of that, you still need to
do lifestyle management because

659
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,720
it's not just that they're
spayed and neutered, they're

660
00:40:01,720 --> 00:40:04,280
also living.
We're all living in an extremely

661
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,160
toxic world.
Their toxic burden is somewhere

662
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:11,280
between 3 and 93 times higher
than ours is, depending on what

663
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,680
thing you're looking at.
The very nature of most of the

664
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:20,600
commercial foods being ultra
processed creates leaky gut

665
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,880
which starts all of these other
chronic diseases in motion.

666
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,360
So if you're right, it's a whole
package.

667
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,440
And if we, I think that's been
The thing is that we've been

668
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,160
trained to look at things in
isolation and it's not that you

669
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:38,680
have to look at the entire being
and where that being is living.

670
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,400
It sounds very overwhelming.
So I'm glad that there are pet

671
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:43,800
health coaches out there to help
people.

672
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:48,400
I know for me, like I can do so
much with my pets and then I

673
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,880
look at what I'm doing for
myself and I'm like, why am I so

674
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,240
overwhelmed with that?
It's it's not.

675
00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:58,040
Like you know, we all need help.
Regardless of where our

676
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,640
strengths are, there's, there's
always something we need help

677
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,400
with, right?
And that's kind of one of the.

678
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,320
Strengths of the coaches as well
is that it can be extremely

679
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:12,000
overwhelming and you can go out
and buy the 27 supplements, but

680
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,440
the coach can help you figure
out which maybe one or two are

681
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,560
useful and appropriate.
And to make it less overwhelming

682
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,360
by helping you literally take
small bites of the elephant.

683
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,160
I love that.
So where?

684
00:41:25,720 --> 00:41:28,560
If people are interested in
learning more, I know you have

685
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,680
lots of blogs and videos out
there and I'm sure you know I

686
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,680
can put links in the show notes
to more information about the

687
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,040
certification program if people
are interested in that.

688
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:43,920
But where can people find you on
socials to get more more

689
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,800
information?
So Doctor Ruth Roberts is the I

690
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,560
think that's the Instagram
handle, That's the YouTube

691
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:54,560
channel forward slash Crockpet
diet on Facebook, other stuff on

692
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:56,760
Twitter, other stuff on Blue
Sky.

693
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:58,280
Actually, we started checking
that out.

694
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,160
That's really cool.
I'm probably forgetting

695
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,520
something, but yeah, we're if
there's a platform, yeah, we're

696
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:05,680
out.
We're pretty much there.

697
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,440
And then on the web, Doctor Ruth
roberts.com, you can click on

698
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,240
coaching to learn more about the
program.

699
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:14,120
You can click on more
importantly, if you're a pet

700
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,640
parent, you're like, holy
smokes, help me now.

701
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,640
Click on Find a coach.
And then you'll see a list of

702
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,080
our graduates and the things
that they specialize in.

703
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,960
If you are like, yeah, this is
what I want to do with my life,

704
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,920
go to holisticpethealthcoach.com
and there's a page with

705
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,200
information there.
You can book a call, talk to one

706
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,880
of our enrollment counselors,
get more information, see if

707
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:37,400
this is the right next step for
you.

708
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:39,960
Awesome.
Well.

709
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,200
Thank you so much for your time
and all of your information

710
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,240
especially.
I mean, obviously the, the pet

711
00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:51,080
health coaching is incredible.
I'm hoping that, you know, as

712
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,720
time goes on, more and more
people are going to be like, Oh

713
00:42:53,720 --> 00:42:55,520
yeah, I know what that is
instead of what are you talking

714
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,200
about?
But yeah, with the, the spay and

715
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,520
neuter information, I just
think, you know, not a whole lot

716
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:06,920
of people are talking about it
and it is just about every dog

717
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,760
out there could be suffering
because of this.

718
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,440
And, and you know, there are,
there are things we can do and,

719
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:18,400
and most people don't, don't
correlate that with anything

720
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,000
going on with their pet.
Right on.

721
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,600
So if I may, I want to leave
your listeners with four simple

722
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:30,440
steps regarding spay neuter
syndrome and, and really

723
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,000
everything else.
I mean, these are the four

724
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,440
simple steps and we, I like to
call them the four CS so we can

725
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,520
make it simple, right?
So the first one is chill.

726
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,640
If you are, you know, for always
listening to our cell phones and

727
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,000
the, and the notifications and
all of this stuff, they are

728
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:51,200
designed to spike our cortisol
and put us into a state of

729
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,120
sympathetic fight or flight.
So chilling means putting your

730
00:43:55,120 --> 00:44:00,000
flown into airplane mode and
going outside with your dog and

731
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,520
or your cat, if possible,
sitting on the ground and doing

732
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,480
nothing.
And you know, that's where this

733
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,840
could be the beginning of a
meditation practice or a

734
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,200
mindfulness practice.
If you are a person that prays,

735
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:16,160
make sure your dogs and your
cats are there with you because

736
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,640
when you are praying, you're
entering that meditative state.

737
00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:24,600
And the second is to cavort,
meaning exercise.

738
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,520
And this is critical.
If we move and groove, we stay

739
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,520
healthier longer and so do our
pets.

740
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,560
I think a lot of what happens
for these guys if they don't put

741
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:39,320
their feet on soil, they never
get to discharge the EMF waves

742
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,520
and all of that grounding and
good stuff.

743
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:43,840
Same thing with kitties.
We, you know, we want to keep

744
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,120
them inside to protect them from
themselves and to protect the

745
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,360
wildlife around them, but they,
they really need some outdoor on

746
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,960
the ground time.
So that's critically important

747
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,440
to the third thing is clean,
clean water.

748
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:01,000
That is one of the most common
ways that we take in toxins

749
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,320
unknowingly.
So using something as simple as

750
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,360
a bread, a water pitcher,
they've actually gotten better.

751
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,880
They do more than just pull out
chlorine all the way up to

752
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,320
distilled water is going to pull
out an inordinate amount of

753
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:18,640
toxins so that the intake of
toxins is dramatically reduced.

754
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:24,120
And then the last thing is cook.
And whether you are raw fed,

755
00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:28,760
advocate home cooked food,
whatever it is, use Whole Foods.

756
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,760
And I think that really is so
critical because that way we're

757
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:36,400
going to foster healthy guts,
healthy animals and produce

758
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,760
inflammation and improve
detoxification.

759
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:40,640
Well, I love that.
I think it's a great way to.

760
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,080
End and I just want to say thank
you again.

761
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:47,160
And guys, make sure to check out
the program or pet health

762
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,000
coaching depending on what you
feel like your need is, what

763
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,720
your calling is.
And thank you again so much for

764
00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:55,200
helping us understand Spander
Syndrome.

765
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,800
Doctor Ruth Roberts.
It is my pleasure, Jess.