198. What’s Really in Your Dog’s Bowl? Small Batch Pet Food on Ethical Sourcing & Ingredient Transparency

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Welcome back pet parent.
I have another incredible brand

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to talk to this week and I'm so
excited.

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Been trying to set this up for
so long.

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Y'all know how picky I am about
the brands I like, about the

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foods I like to feed, about the
foods I recommend.

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There really aren't that many
and I'm just so excited.

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Thank you, Nicole, for being
here today to represent Small

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Batch, which is one of the foods
that I keep in rotation for my

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animals.
And I'm just, I'm so excited to

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finally have you here.
So welcome.

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Thank you.
We appreciate the invitation and

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opportunity and I know a long
time coming.

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Yeah, Yeah.
So I would like to just start

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out by I think one of the things
and the reason that I reached

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out to you guys initially is
because we have some some really

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incredible smaller, newer brands
in in, in the market.

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But there are still a couple
that have you've been there for

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a little while.
You know, I think, I think

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sometimes we can get caught up
in the shiny new things and we

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can sometimes forget about the
like old trusty things that are

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still doing great.
And that was like one of the

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reasons why I reached out to in
the 1st place is because I'm

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like, but you guys have a really
great product that I really like

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and I don't want people to
forget about.

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Like I'm sure you guys are doing
great.

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I don't mean people are
forgetting about you, but like

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it's important to to remind
people that like, yeah, there

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are these incredible newer
companies that are out there.

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But one, we always want to keep
a rotation of foods going.

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That's not just for me, it's not
just with like proteins, but

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it's also with brands because
you just never know.

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Like you have a pet parent, you
have to diversify, right?

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You just never know what's going
to happen.

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And I'm just, I'm so glad that
you guys, even for like the

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amount of time you've been
around, like you're still doing

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it, you're still making food in
a way that somebody like me can

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say, no, I actually really like
this brand even though they've

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been around a lot.
Yeah, Yeah, it's definitely I've

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been an interesting path in
small batch compared to the way

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that the category has been
illuminated, you know, really in

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the last kind of five to six
years.

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And one of the most amazing
parts of the small batch

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timeline is the fact that 2025
is actually our 20th anniversary

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from, you know, the concept
concepting.

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Concepting there we go of, you
know, a pet food have felt like

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the trajectory of slow and
steady and really focus is

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actually a thing that sets us
apart from the majority of the

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brands that you'll find on
freezer shelves right now.

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You know, from from the get go.
The focus was on the quality of

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ingredients and harnessing the
raw materials and their

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nutritional integrity to craft a
really beautiful product.

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The Vogel family was living in
Bay Area San Francisco around

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2005.
And if you're familiar with that

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area, the culinary scene is
fantastic.

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There is myriad of super, super
premium materials for livestock

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and produce between Northern
California, Central Valley,

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Southern Oregon.
And so the idea of the Slow Food

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movement was kind of present in
the community at that time.

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And a lot of the restaurant
tours were really into the

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concept of taking fresh food and
getting it into people's meals,

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onto their plates, you know,
into the restaurant doors or

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local grocers as quickly as
possible.

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And so that real culinary
artistic attitude and reverence

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for sourcing was the onus for
the brands.

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And it was a really a thoughtful
philosophy that required really

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gradual progression.
And so I think we've seen in the

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last, you know, decade a lot of
marketing money that you can

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kind of put a facade on a brand.
And small batch has been sort of

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chugging along slow and steady,
doing what we do truly with a

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really small team of people for
a very long time and has not

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wavered from those commitments
to do right ultimately by our

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consumers, which are pet parents
and the animals in their care

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by, you know, not cutting
corners.

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And to do that, you can't, you
can't grow rapidly.

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You can't, you know, change your
philosophies or deviate from

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those methodologies and still
have the same same product at

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the end of the day.
That is so true.

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It was actually something Susan
Thixton said to me a number of

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years ago.
She said that just because it's

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in the freezer doesn't mean it's
good.

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Absolutely.
It wasn't like I didn't know

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that, but to hear it, like, I
don't know, it was something

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about her saying that to me.
I was like, wow, like that is

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not something that we talk very
much about in this community

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because I think one of the like,
just trying to get people over

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from the, you know, kibble
aisle.

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It's like, just come on,
anything in the freezer?

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Just get over here.
Or anything in the freezer,

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right.
And that's really not, I mean,

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yes, probably anything in the
freezer may be better than than

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a than a kibble diet, but
they're definitely not all

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created equal.
And as you said, like I can,

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there are some pet store, any
pet stores that I walk in that

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I'm like, OK, this is an
interesting selection that you

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have here.
And then there are other indie

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pet stores that I walk in and
I'm like, this is amazing.

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I love your freezer.
And there is, there is a

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difference.
And I, I'm obviously not trying

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to like call anybody out here,
but I, I'm, I'm very, very

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picky.
I know I'm very, very picky.

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And I'm just really excited to
have you on to talk a little bit

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more about small batch.
So it really, it sounds like

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started from the whole like
foodie movement, which is a is

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still a thing.
And what you've kind of

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described is really how you have
set yourselves apart from other

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brands like this is, this is our
philosophy, this is the end

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product that we want to provide.
We want it to be really high

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quality.
And we're, it sounds to me like

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it's you would rather make sure
that that end product meets your

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requirements versus any growth
that maybe happen like you would

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rather pass up growth that would
require you to do something

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you're not comfortable doing.
And I like that.

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I appreciate that.
Yeah.

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And to kind of expand from just
the end product, you know, that

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may be the piece that we have in
retail stores on shelves that

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consumers then are going to put
in bowls at home.

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But looking the opposite
direction in the production

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sense, it's crucial that we are
contributing positively as

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consumers of the food landscape
in our country because available

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food materials, whether it be
meat or produce, those suppliers

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are responding to consumer
demands.

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And one of my favorite things
that David Vogel, one of our

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founders told me when I was
brand new with the team, the

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meat that small batch sources,
those animals should have one

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bad day.
And if we are making sure that

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the livestock we procure has
lived with respectful treatment,

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species appropriate conditions
so that they are not only

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healthy and raised to be, you
know, as nutritionally sound and

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viable as possible, but sort of
our energetic contribution to

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food shed, you know, has a
really positive impact.

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Because like we said, we want,
we want from start to finish

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small batch to be making, you
know, net positive impact on

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Wellness for all creatures.
And it's been, it's an

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interesting consideration to
sort of look at the options for

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meat sourcing, whether it be
domestic or international and

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sort of where factory farming or
confinement style agriculture

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fits into that picture.
You know, and there are some

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staggering statistics about how
much of factory farmed meats is

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consumed directly by the pet
industry.

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And so we focus so appointedly
on our companion animals and we

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forget that we may be directly
supporting the negative life

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experience of an animal that's
being consumed or raised for

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consumption, you know?
Well, I and I think that's

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important because I was
certainly wanting to talk to you

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about sourcing today because it
is something that and yes, as

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you just said, being conscious
consumers is important.

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And I personally, I, I do try
with as much as I can to feed my

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pets in a way that I do know
where whatever company I'm

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purchasing their, the food from,
where they are getting the

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ingredients from where that,
that I feel comfortable with

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that.
And I try to do the same for me

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where I am buying meats from,
preferably like regenerative

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farms and things like that.
You know, similarly with

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produce, having organic produce
whenever possible.

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I think fun.
I always say this, that it to me

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is a privilege to be able to
have these conversations and to

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be able to to purchase these
types of foods to understand

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that one understand that this is
something we need to be paying

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attention to, but then also to
be able to source them and

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purchase them.
And what small batch does, in my

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opinion, it like kind of takes
the guesswork out of it for her

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parents.
And another thing that I wanted

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to bring up, I've been talking a
lot in my live videos recently

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about greenwashing in the pet
industry.

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And I feel like, you know, one
of the first things when I see

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the name small batch, I'm like,
OK, I'm glad I know that this is

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actually a really good food
because that would be something

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that like if it weren't anybody
else, I would like, I would have

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red flags of like, OK, what is
this marketing that you are so

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asking me?
Isn't it funny now how everybody

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in every category, whether it be
hard goods or treats or foods

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now and we have been small batch
literally because that is how

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the food is produced.
You know, like I said, for 20

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years now.
It's it's not, it's not anything

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that's been curated with that
marketing spin.

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It is a genuine reflection of,
you know, the way that the food

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started.
It was David and Diana making a

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small batch in their kitchen
for, you know, people that were

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getting food from them locally.
That's incredible.

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OK.
So I do want to go back a little

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bit.
You, you've said so much already

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about the sourcing of the food
itself, the ingredients that go

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into the food.
Are you so OK, we are very aware

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of how the animals are raised
and the animals are slaughtered.

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Are we?
To me, I also think that that

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makes the food more nutritious
and energetically, which is a

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whole thing that we don't have
to go down.

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But for me, like the energy of
that food is also very different

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when you know that that animal
lived a good life.

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So are we, are we sourcing
primarily in the United States?

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Are we, like, can you just go
maybe a little bit more into

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and, and with the produce as
well, 'cause I know it's, it's

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organic.
Yeah, produce, yes to to call up

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produce 1st 100% of what small
batch sources meets the

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standards that we're going to
talk about.

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And that unto itself sort of
fits in that bucket where we

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started of what makes small
batch different and fortunately

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or unfortunately marketing and
AFCO and what is permissible as

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far as claims on packaging.
They don't let us say directly

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100% of what we do meets these
standards.

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And that's really where
particularly brands in the

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freezer have the opportunity to
cut corners.

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It might be 60% of what we do
and the other 40% is of a

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different caliber, you know, and
everything in between the

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possible span of combinations.
But as far as produce and herbs

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that we procure, 100% of
everything is certified organic.

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It is all domestically procured
almost exclusively from the West

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Coast of the one very one
exception is the chia seeds and

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it kind of fits with the same
philosophy as the meat that we

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procure.
There is always going to be a

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best place for some of these
materials to be raised, so where

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things should grow naturally to
be their most robust, nutritious

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selves is a part of the
equation.

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But meat that we procure, the
philosophy has always been to

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buy as close to production as
possible from small farms that

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we contract with directly.
That's one of the 1st and most

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important pieces.
That is again a difference with

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small batch.
A lot of production is done

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through Co manufacturers.
Well, they will go out and

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actually procure according to
whatever set of standards you

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set forward.
But basically you are putting it

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in the hands of a third party to
do what you would do to have the

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same, you know, stringent
evaluation of a potential

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potential source.
So for us to contract directly

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with small farms that have
demonstrated competency and

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00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,760
commitment to the best of animal
husbandry that we can find is

227
00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,600
piece One.
Finding them as close to

228
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,880
production is a component.
And then the best quality that

229
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:09,240
we can source to make sure that
we can guarantee our production,

230
00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,000
you know, and get things as
fresh to the facility as

231
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:21,360
possible is piece #2 it's, I
don't think discussed enough how

232
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:26,040
fluid the meat industry can be.
You know, we've navigated a lot

233
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:30,280
of changes in the last five
years, particularly since COVID,

234
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,320
You know, but even small
suppliers, they're acquired,

235
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,520
they have new ownership
practices may change,

236
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:42,960
certifications may change.
So it is kind of an an ongoing

237
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,920
process of adjustment.
But as far as meat procurement,

238
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:52,000
90% of what we source is
currently all domestic.

239
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,480
The exceptions would be rabbit,
which is coming from France.

240
00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,920
We had to move our domestic
rabbit supplier.

241
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:05,960
But the the partner that we have
actually produces for culinary

242
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:10,920
use rabbit and then we have been
able to get secondary and

243
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:15,960
tertiary sourcing for certain
materials that we use a lot of

244
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,520
beef is a great example.
You don't want to pigeonhole

245
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,960
yourself by having one supplier
only because then when something

246
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,040
happens, what do you do?
We've got 1 grass fed beef

247
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:30,440
supplier in New Zealand that has
done a little bit for us.

248
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,560
That is an amazing.
The quality of the meat and the

249
00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,360
balance of protein to fat is
absolutely beautiful.

250
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:41,200
So it is a little bit flexible,
but domestic is our first

251
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,560
priority to meet that quality
and accessibility to our

252
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,240
proximity to production
standard.

253
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:50,840
Well, and I think that's a a
very good point because I even

254
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,760
may like, I'm like, well, is it
US, is it US?

255
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:59,800
But there are certainly cases
where you can find better

256
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,480
overseas.
Absolutely, yeah.

257
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:07,880
We have become very tied to US
being a standard and that's not

258
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:12,120
as cut and dry.
There are beautiful resources

259
00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,240
all over the world.
It's what's that particular

260
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,160
supplier that you're looking at?
Yeah, exactly.

261
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:23,240
So one of the things that I'm
curious about and I hope, I hope

262
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:24,960
it's OK to bring this up.
I can edit it.

263
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:30,720
If not, one of the things that
I, I was talking with your team

264
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:35,000
about at Super Zoo last year,
well prior to Super Zoo, but I,

265
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:40,240
I got to in person was there was
there was big to do about a year

266
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:45,560
ago where some of the recipes
formulation, some something,

267
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,680
something changed, something in
the supply chain changed and the

268
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:55,120
formulation needed to be redone
very quickly with a couple of

269
00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:58,080
synthetic, I don't, I don't
remember exactly what it was,

270
00:18:58,080 --> 00:18:59,680
some synthetic vitamins and
minerals.

271
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:04,040
It was very minimal, but I know
that reformulation was, like, in

272
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,960
the works.
And just to kind of keep the

273
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:12,600
standard of transparency, that
was a thing that happened.

274
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,560
Are the new recipes out yet?
Can you talk a little bit about

275
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,880
how you do formulate your
recipes?

276
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,760
And, you know, when something
like this comes up, you just

277
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:26,040
obviously want to make sure that
pets are having access to the

278
00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,640
food that they're used to having
as quickly as possible.

279
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:31,480
Yeah.
Absolutely.

280
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:37,160
I think that the nature of
utilizing organic materials and

281
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,400
organic being, you know, in
their natural form is the

282
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:44,440
inherent variation.
It's a thing that we embrace

283
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:49,920
wholeheartedly as the best way
to deliver, you know, sound

284
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:55,560
lifelong Wellness to our pets.
And then we also have to balance

285
00:19:55,560 --> 00:20:00,120
that with a commercial pet
industry and AFCO feeding

286
00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:04,040
guidelines and nutrition panels
where we sort of trained

287
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:11,720
consumers to be very stringent
in thinking that a recipe will

288
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:17,360
deliver exact nutrients and be
uniform with every single feed.

289
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:20,800
And that's actually not nature's
design.

290
00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:25,200
You will never find 2 pieces of
beef that have the exact same,

291
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,560
you know, amino acid inclusion
or fat to protein ratio.

292
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,800
You will never see 2 heads of
cauliflower or bunches of celery

293
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,360
that are identical in their
makeup.

294
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:40,320
And like we said, that's why
animals naturally have

295
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,280
variation.
But what we were looking at last

296
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:49,000
year was that ongoing process of
raw material audits.

297
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:54,040
We are continually balancing any
new supplier that might come

298
00:20:54,040 --> 00:21:00,640
into the mix with the individual
ingredient analysis for that

299
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:05,120
nutritional profile and then
reassessing the impact on the

300
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:11,040
recipe as a whole.
It's tricky for us as a brand to

301
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:16,120
negotiate the necessity for that
really consistent formulation

302
00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:21,920
and nutritional panel with the
knowledge that a lot of our

303
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:26,080
consumers don't rotate.
They don't rotate between

304
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,360
proteins available with small
bats or they're not rotating

305
00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:31,560
between small batch and other
brands.

306
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:37,880
And so to look at a single
formula and say this has to meet

307
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,080
every single standard, every
single batch, there are there

308
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:43,720
are things that can shift that
balance.

309
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:48,280
So as part of kind of the full
audit, we are always going back

310
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,640
to the drawing board to look at,
you know, which, which

311
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,040
components of this can we shift?
Could we add a little bit of

312
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,280
this?
Could we use a different cut of

313
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,640
meats to offset, you know,
something that may have changed

314
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,920
as far as raw material supply or
supplier like I mentioned?

315
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,520
So the decision was made in the
freeze dried booths to add the

316
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,720
glycinates, which they're not
synthetic vitamins, they're

317
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,880
actually just naturally
occurring minerals that are

318
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,200
bound to protein.
So they are really easy to

319
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,720
absorb.
It's the most natural way to

320
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:28,280
supplement anything with the
least inclusion in a formula.

321
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:32,200
And for the sake of our
consumers, rather than risk,

322
00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:35,200
we'll put risk in quotes.
Rather than risk having a

323
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:40,680
customer who's using 1 formula
exclusively potentially see, you

324
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:45,920
know, a deficit in a single
nutrient, we decided we're going

325
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:50,920
to utilize this as kind of a
plan for the interim and really

326
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:56,640
evaluate what we can to get
these back out of the diet and

327
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,720
make sure that we have adjusted.
We've always got new information

328
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,920
to to consider and looking for
new suppliers for things that we

329
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,520
might want to utilize when we're
shifting those recipes around.

330
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:13,080
But the really exciting news is
the new formulas across our

331
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,200
categories are just starting to
roll out.

332
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:22,920
We have already touched our
frozen raw cat diets and some

333
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,640
really beautiful brand new
packaging, which we're going to

334
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:30,280
be debuting at the big global
pedestal coming up in two weeks

335
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:34,600
is just just starting to hit
retail shelves.

336
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,760
So in addition to the new
styling, those recipe updates

337
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:40,760
are going to be making their way
into the landscape.

338
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,520
The raw cat sliders will be the
first that we see, and then

339
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:48,240
those dog freeze dried sliders
is gonna be the next category.

340
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,880
And then we did a little bit of
an overhaul on our frozen

341
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,600
lightly cooked sliders for dogs
as well.

342
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:59,520
So it's really been, dare I say,
a labor of love and an

343
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:04,400
incredible amount of work.
But you know, the effort to get

344
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,800
it right and ensure that
nutritional viability and the

345
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:12,080
recipe integrity is, you know,
it's not something that you can

346
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:16,840
do quickly for sure.
And we want to maintain maintain

347
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:21,680
a really palatable recipe
without disrupting, you know,

348
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,080
what pets have become accustomed
to.

349
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,440
Because we certainly have a
large percentage of the small

350
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:32,000
batch customer base that has
found our products for a really

351
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:37,000
particular set of reasons, be it
ingredient sensitivities or you

352
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:42,080
know, just a picky pet, but
really likes the flavor of the

353
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,200
formula.
So there's Thugs of

354
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:49,600
Considerations, but my goodness,
it's been, you know, long time

355
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:54,160
coming and we are excited to see
these new formulas rolling out.

356
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,400
Yeah.
I'm, I mean, I'm glad when you

357
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:03,640
started that you brought up the
fact that it is difficult.

358
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:10,840
It can be very difficult to
reconcile the fact that when we

359
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:16,800
are feeding whole fresh foods,
like no animal in the wild lives

360
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,440
off of, you know, eating off of
a spreadsheet, but just

361
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:26,000
inherently being a commercially
available pet food.

362
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,880
You have these rules and
regulations and guidelines that

363
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:35,400
you have to stick to, to, to be
quote, complete and balanced

364
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,880
based on, you know, if the AFCO
guidelines that that the FDA has

365
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,160
adopted.
And it's really, it's, it is

366
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:47,760
something that I talk a lot
about with different brands

367
00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:52,480
because the brands that I have
on like yourself, it is

368
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,080
something that you really
wrestle with all the time.

369
00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:00,600
Knowing that, you know, at least
if we can get there without

370
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:05,520
adding in all these extra
vitamins and minerals, heaven

371
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:10,120
forbid a, a premix, right?
If we can get there with all

372
00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:12,320
whole fresh foods.
That's even though some people

373
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,040
would argue that feeding every
single meal, every single bite

374
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,600
100% complete and balanced may
not actually be the best thing

375
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,400
for our dogs and our cats.
At least if we're doing it with

376
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:29,680
all fresh Whole Foods and we're
not adding in synthetics at all,

377
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:35,240
then I think their bodies can
kind of take what it needs and

378
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,680
get rid of the rest a whole heck
of a lot easier than if we are

379
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,320
doing it with synthetics.
Yeah, absolutely.

380
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,880
That utilization, the
consumption, utilization and

381
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:50,480
illumination is all, you know,
things that we have to consider

382
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,440
when we're feeding our pets.
And we've always looked at it as

383
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:58,520
a nature's inherent design is
the best way.

384
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:03,800
If we are really using 100%
whole food materials, we've got

385
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,280
that variance built in.
Now we have to come up with the

386
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,600
formula that sort of does touch
those necessary spreadsheet

387
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:18,200
boxes and you know, then
delivered the nutrients in that

388
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,400
most usable, viable form
possible.

389
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,000
Yeah.
Well, and I think I actually, I,

390
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:30,320
I categorize the idea that every
single bite needs to be fleet

391
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,680
and balanced AFCO standards as a
huge misconception.

392
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:38,200
Yeah, yeah.
Are there any other

393
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,000
misconceptions that just small
batches of brand likes to kind

394
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,680
of dispel for people in the in
the pet food arena?

395
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,640
Who likes to dispel?
I do think that some of the

396
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:59,560
human food philosophies as far
as diet approaches that have

397
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,800
been adopted by the pet industry
have really interesting to look

398
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,800
at in some regards.
There's some interesting kind of

399
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:12,280
over sciencing and idealization
of what we want to deliver with

400
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:17,040
every single bite.
Like he said, I, I don't know

401
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:21,360
that we could ever impose 1
standard or metric of measure

402
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,800
that we could call most ideal
for every single pet.

403
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,840
And it's definitely a reflect.
It's reflected in the small

404
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:37,160
batch products with the variety
of forms that we have come up

405
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,000
with and the variety of pets
that we feed the other industry

406
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,200
myths.
That's a good one.

407
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,880
It's OK.
I think we, yeah, I mean, we

408
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,160
could talk about cold cuts of
meat.

409
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,440
That's not exactly a myth.
But since we did touch upon it a

410
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:57,920
little bit earlier, the the sort
of greenwashing and assumption

411
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,600
that because food is in the
freezer, it's good.

412
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,840
You know, we've used sort of
jokingly the description that

413
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:10,600
raw food has been capitalized
and what was once a much

414
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:16,680
narrower segment has become the
focus of a ton of bigger brands

415
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,920
that want sort of a piece of the
fresh food movement.

416
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:28,440
So it's easy to pay a formulator
and use a lot of money to get a

417
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,800
food produced and every single
ingredient.

418
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:36,240
And then the summation of the
recipe as a whole can be very

419
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,400
bottom of the barrel, least
expensive possible all the way

420
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,840
up to super premium,
thoughtfully sourced for the

421
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:49,400
nutritional value and anywhere
in between.

422
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:54,320
And there, there are a lot of
claims of caliber and quality

423
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,280
that do read really well on
bags.

424
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:02,880
But when you start to dig below
the surface, meat in particular,

425
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:09,600
there is a whole variety of
forms for pieces of meat to

426
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,800
actually procure.
And it's incredibly unique that

427
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,320
small batches use small batch
uses exclusively hole cuts of

428
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:22,880
meat.
We don't use any 0 preprocess or

429
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,640
rendered trim for mechanically
separated meat.

430
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:33,080
Mechanically separated meat is
becoming a little bit more of a,

431
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,000
you know, common term in premium
pet food.

432
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,880
But to do the short summary or
definition of it, it is

433
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,600
essentially the rendered
leftovers after the good cuts of

434
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:50,200
meat have been removed from a
carcass to be sold generally for

435
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,920
human consumption in high end
restaurant and grocery.

436
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:59,520
So what is left after that
processing is some amount of

437
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:04,720
meat, but it is largely skin fat
and frame or bone.

438
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,600
Those carcasses, dozens and
dozens and dozens all get ground

439
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,400
down in a machine.
And then anything that can be

440
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,880
liquefied is sort of forced
through this big sieve in a

441
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,120
centrifuge.
So if you think back to years

442
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:25,280
ago when McDonald's pink slime
entered people's awareness,

443
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,280
that's mechanically separated
meat.

444
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,720
And the real interesting
realization was people

445
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,400
discovered, oh, wait, there's no
chicken in your chicken Nuggets.

446
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:39,320
So if we're using that as a
component in what is supposed to

447
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:45,960
be a biologically appropriate
way to feed our animals, we have

448
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:51,440
to start to wonder how much
usable protein is actually left

449
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,520
in that material.
Same goes for trims.

450
00:31:55,520 --> 00:32:00,600
There are a whole variety of
calibers and qualities of trims.

451
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,080
It's a much easier way to
procure meat and it is also a

452
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,560
less expensive material to use.
You'll generally have a lot more

453
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:15,080
fat in those two forms, and so
it's an easy way to hit your

454
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:20,120
caloric meat.
It's definitely, definitely

455
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,040
prevalent in raw food and it's
not something that you have to

456
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:29,400
call out on an ingredient label
because ATCO definitions have a

457
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,520
lengthy description for what you
are allowed to call out as

458
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:39,160
chicken or beef.
So it's a way for manufacturers

459
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,800
to buffer their supply because
it's easy to procure, so you

460
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,840
don't have to worry about
running out.

461
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:50,480
It's also much, much less, you
know, pennies on the dollar in

462
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,840
certain cases to procure those
materials.

463
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,800
So it gives you a nice margin,
but it also helps stretch

464
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,880
whatever higher caliber or
quality materials you are using

465
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,160
so that, you know, the amount of
food that you are able to

466
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:10,360
produce goes further.
But that's maybe not so much of

467
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,200
A myth as a, you know, raw food
secret.

468
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:15,920
Yeah.
Yeah.

469
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:21,640
And the the length that small
batch has gone to, to never ever

470
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:27,160
in any of our 20 years use those
materials is I think something

471
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,800
that doesn't, doesn't get
communicated enough because it's

472
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,440
hard.
It's hard to teach people all of

473
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,320
the backgrounds of what raw
material procurement can look

474
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,240
like.
Yeah, well, I think so many

475
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:47,360
people are just completely
unaware of, first of all, what

476
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:53,160
the what Afco is actually there
for, what the the big pet food

477
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,320
is actually there for.
And so they don't understand

478
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,560
that chicken, what they think of
as chicken when they go to the

479
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,520
grocery store, isn't what the
definition of chicken is in.

480
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,320
Pet food.
Like they just or feed, they

481
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,600
don't, you know, it's, it's and
it's so complicated and it's so,

482
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:15,199
I mean, you as a consumer, you
don't even have access to those

483
00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:17,080
definitions unless you purchase
them.

484
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,080
Like it's it is the most insane
thing.

485
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,080
Yeah, yeah, an.
Insane thing to me but.

486
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,199
And even if you do, then you're
reading it as words on a piece

487
00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:31,960
of paper.
It's not a visual in front of

488
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:33,760
you.
It's to give you that sort of

489
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,360
pictographic dictionary.
Of what?

490
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,719
What does that mean?
What are all the possibilities?

491
00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:43,360
And I do.
I know that the consumer belief

492
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,040
that, well, raw food wouldn't
use that.

493
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:51,400
All raw food has to be decent.
Yeah, that's not at all.

494
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,800
No, that's not the case at all.
In fact, I mean, there are

495
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:56,800
definitely.
I, I actually just looked up

496
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,320
another raw food company in
Australia recently because

497
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,920
Colgate Home Olive bought them,
which is Hills.

498
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,560
And I looked him up online and
I'm like, what is this?

499
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,760
Who is this?
And looks like something I would

500
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,240
never in my wildest dreams feed
to my animal.

501
00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:16,480
But it's still a raw food and a
log that you buy in the freezer.

502
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,640
And it's, it's I'm, I'm very
interested.

503
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:24,680
As you said, these big players
are starting to like see the

504
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,040
writing on the wall and that,
you know, consumers want better

505
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:32,600
for their pets And so they are
dipping their toes in and buying

506
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,000
up.
You know, some of these

507
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,400
companies to me, like this one
particular company that was just

508
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,000
purchased in Australia was like
a frozen version of Kim.

509
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,160
But I mean, when I'm looking at
the ingredient label, I'm like,

510
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,080
yeah, I know.
But it's it is very interesting

511
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,240
to see.
And I'm sure you guys have seen

512
00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:56,040
in the, in the 20 years and I
think I don't remember how late

513
00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:01,160
you said you've been there a
good chunk of those years, This

514
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:08,200
change in this trajectory and in
the pet food industry overall,

515
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,640
which I overall I think is a
good thing.

516
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,560
You know, I was even talking to
somebody yesterday and I was

517
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,720
like, as much as I don't like
the farmer's dog, for example, I

518
00:36:15,720 --> 00:36:19,200
don't like their recipes.
I am very grateful for their

519
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:24,680
marketing budget because they
have, they have raised awareness

520
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:30,000
to so many people that you don't
have to feed that dry junk

521
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,480
that's sitting in your pantry to
your pet every meal for the rest

522
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:35,760
of their life.
And I'm like, as much as I don't

523
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,480
like their formulation, I am
very grateful that they have the

524
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,640
I don't have many millions to
put a Super Bowl in.

525
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,240
Yeah, isn't that wild?
How many thousands of dollars

526
00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:52,120
for each second does that cost?
But you know, we, we will

527
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:57,680
gratefully say the same because
we have had these players not

528
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,240
just in fresh food, you know,
there were a few in kibble that

529
00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:04,200
actually reached consumers with
that messaging.

530
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,280
You need to be looking at what
goes into the food that you're

531
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,280
buying.
And it may start with reading it

532
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,080
off of the packaging ingredient
by ingredient.

533
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:18,800
And then it, it elevates from
there as awareness is

534
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:23,080
established in pursuit of more
understanding, you know, sort of

535
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,280
sets in.
And that's, that's fantastic.

536
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:31,480
We have to spend all of our
pennies on the raw materials,

537
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:36,280
the production and distribution
out to our, you know, retail

538
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,880
partners that we can.
No Super Bowl money yet,

539
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:41,240
unfortunately.
Yeah.

540
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,320
Well, I, I just have a couple
more questions for you.

541
00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:48,400
One is, first of all, I'm
actually kind of surprised that

542
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,640
you said there's new packaging
rolling out, 'cause I feel like

543
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,400
you guys just rolled out new
packaging in the past couple of

544
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:58,560
years, which was beautiful.
We we started to update you

545
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,480
probably are thinking of our
super booster by.

546
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,320
So those are those are our treat
or Topper option and those were

547
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:11,320
the very first products that
sort of gave nod to the new

548
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:18,200
styling, the diets, the frozen
raw cat, the dog raw formulas,

549
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,400
those actually not been touched
in more than a decade.

550
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:26,840
So this is a big deal for us to
redo the look of small batch.

551
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:33,760
But the reception to it so far
has been really, really positive

552
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,080
and small batch has such a
distinct look on shelf.

553
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:42,840
And I know it's a big deal when
anything changes and I am really

554
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:47,040
confident that our retailers and
customers are going to have, you

555
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:51,160
know, a really big, really big
positive reactions to the new

556
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:52,160
look.
Yeah.

557
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:58,760
Well, I, I do want to touch on
the fact that you do have more

558
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,480
than just the food.
So if you want to talk a little

559
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,840
bit about like the whole line
that you do offer, I'd love to

560
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,040
give you that opportunity.
Absolutely.

561
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:14,360
The evolution from a great raw
food has sort of been a

562
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:19,360
reflection of what the the small
batch loyalists have requested.

563
00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:27,320
And that that feeding philosophy
that some fresh food is vastly

564
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:32,440
better than none has always been
really near and dear to our

565
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,680
hearts.
Because you mentioned we've got

566
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,880
a whole variety of influences,
be it accessibility to

567
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:45,120
independent retail budget, pet
needs, maybe medical conditions,

568
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:49,280
you know there there are drivers
for people in what they choose,

569
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,000
what they're able to feed, what
they choose to feed, what works

570
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:53,880
best for their routine and their
household.

571
00:39:53,920 --> 00:40:00,000
And so sort of being able to
broaden the variety of choices

572
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,880
has.
It's been amazing and certainly

573
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,840
a way for us to get more options
into the landscape.

574
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:10,720
So we have those complete
unbalanced diets that are in a

575
00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:15,600
few formats in the freezer.
We do the raw diets both for

576
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:21,440
dogs and cats and I always love
to mention our cat diets for a

577
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:27,560
raw food are one of the best
starter raw recipes available.

578
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:32,200
The first food that we made was
actually for blue the cats who

579
00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:34,920
people have seen recently on our
Instagram.

580
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:40,360
But we sell more chicken cat
biters than my gosh, almost any

581
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,600
other skew that we produce,
which is kind of wild, but we do

582
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,840
those complete and balanced raw
diets in the freezers.

583
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:52,360
You will also find the lightly
cooked recipes for dogs.

584
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:58,040
That was sort of an adaptation
because we had more and more of

585
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,360
our consumer base that was
looking to do a home prepared

586
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,120
diet.
And a lot of them were finding

587
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:10,040
that for a variety of reasons,
Either their veterinary partners

588
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:15,240
had some resistance to raw or
they had maybe an animal or

589
00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:22,080
human in their home that had
immune issues and they felt like

590
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:26,520
doing something that was very
gently cooked was a safer point

591
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,640
of entry.
So those diets for us are sous

592
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,320
video, they are fully cooked.
So the temperature still comes

593
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:41,600
up to 165° for pasteurization of
pathogens per FDA safety

594
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,400
regulations.
But what we found with those is

595
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:49,840
the proteins themselves are a
bit more digestible for animals

596
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,320
whose digestive tracts just
aren't as robust.

597
00:41:53,720 --> 00:41:57,000
And that can be for a whole
variety of reasons, be it age,

598
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,240
they're brand new to fresh food
for the first time in their

599
00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:06,240
lives, a medical issue like we
mentioned, that is a really fast

600
00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:10,280
growing category for us and
we're super excited.

601
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,800
We're going to be expanding the
proteins in those lightly cooked

602
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:18,160
sliders announcing on my global.
So we will have two brand new

603
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,640
recipes to share with our
consumers soon, which we are

604
00:42:21,720 --> 00:42:26,520
thrilled about.
Outside of the freezers, we have

605
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,480
the complete and balanced diet
available in freeze dried

606
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,760
formats.
So that's going to be freeze

607
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:36,280
dried sliders for dogs.
And those recipes are almost

608
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,960
identical to their frozen raw
counterpart, but made in the

609
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,840
shelf stable format so that you
can rehydrate, keep them in your

610
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,720
emergency kit.
Perfect for all of the travel

611
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:51,440
dog sitter versatility, backup
plan needs that you might come

612
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:52,880
up with.
And we have the complete and

613
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,760
balanced freeze dried meal bites
for cats as well.

614
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:02,200
Those are such a cool mix in for
people that might do some raw

615
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,120
for their cats, some canned food
for their cats.

616
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:09,240
They're a 98% meat bone organ
recipe.

617
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,680
My dogs actually love them as
treat bites.

618
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:17,560
So I use them as a giant bag of,
you know, mix insurance and

619
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:23,280
addition to my training coach
when we go on our walks and then

620
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:27,760
we have a variety of small batch
treat options.

621
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,520
The Super boosters that we
mentioned before, we created

622
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:37,640
them really to be a check all
the boxes super high value

623
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:44,080
treats or meal Topper recipe.
We have 95% meat bone organ in

624
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,960
all of those varieties.
Each protein is then paired with

625
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:53,480
a specific superfoods.
So we get to have a little bit

626
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,880
of variety in that functional
benefit.

627
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:01,320
And then those are also
augmented with a fermented

628
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,800
probiotic.
So the pairings for those across

629
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:10,760
the recipes are chicken with
turmeric, beef with papaya,

630
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:17,000
Turkey with cranberry, duck with
lion's mane mushroom, which

631
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:22,440
happens to be one of my
favorites, lamb with BlackBerry,

632
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:27,160
pork with chamomile and
blueberry, which is probably my

633
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:31,200
second most favorite, and then a
rabbit bite that's paired with

634
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:36,040
dandelion greens.
So you kind of get that ideal

635
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:41,640
super meat centric, minimal
ingredient recipe, but with

636
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:46,480
those super foods that might be
used to leverage specific

637
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,640
Wellness needs and offer that
little bit of digestive support

638
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:53,360
and you know, versatile, use
them how you need as your treat,

639
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,320
as your bowl mixed in and they
are appropriate for dogs and

640
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,520
cats.
That's I feel like overlooked

641
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,680
thing with a lot of the small
batch products.

642
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:05,440
There's a lot of there's a lot
of versatility in what we have

643
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,840
created in the single
ingredients freeze dried treat

644
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,000
lane.
We have had our freeze dried

645
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,360
hearts for a while.
Those are available in chicken,

646
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:19,720
Turkey, beef, lamb and pork.
All of the larger proteins are

647
00:45:19,720 --> 00:45:22,760
chopped up into pieces and the
chicken hearts are whole.

648
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:27,080
And then earlier this year, we
added freeze dried livers to the

649
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,640
lineup.
So hearts and livers being two

650
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,800
of the most nutrients and organs
in the body that you can feed.

651
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,880
And maybe for people that aren't
using a fresh food diet

652
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:42,120
exclusively or they want to add
that really nutrient rich organ

653
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:46,960
meat as just their treat portion
of their feed routine of their

654
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:51,080
freeze dried livers are that one
single ingredient chopped up and

655
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,960
freeze dried.
I will point out an interesting

656
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,800
thing with some single
ingredient treats is that you

657
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:03,240
can still actually use rendered
materials and then repress and

658
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:08,960
form them into pieces that sort
of look like they were once just

659
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:13,880
cold cuts of meat.
But small batches livers are

660
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,960
never pre processed.
There's no preservative agents.

661
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,800
They are clean and simple.
And those are available in beef,

662
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:26,520
chicken, duck, which is kind of
a neat 1, lamb and pork.

663
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,960
And then my goodness, I know it
goes on.

664
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:34,360
We have the bone broths.
We do a simple frozen 3

665
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,480
ingredient broth.
That's kind of what we call the

666
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:41,320
small batch purist recipe.
It is bones, water and carrot,

667
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,080
so unique that we don't use any
apple cider vinegar in that

668
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,360
recipe.
It's just slow centered so we

669
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,760
get all the absorb, you know,
absorption or breakdown of that

670
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,920
really good mineral collagen
glucosamine into the broth

671
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,040
itself.
But it's a choice option for

672
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:02,240
picky pets that don't like the
flavor or the smell of that

673
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:05,520
vinegar or pets that may have a
condition that would put them in

674
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,320
the histamine intolerant
category.

675
00:47:09,720 --> 00:47:14,000
So nice that we've got, you
know, that option for that crab

676
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:16,680
doesn't get talked about a lot
histamines.

677
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:21,120
But the other option for the
bone broths is our shelf stable

678
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:23,920
broths.
We've called it a restorative

679
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:29,400
recipe and each of those has a
functional, A functional herb

680
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:33,720
that's kind of an adaptogenic
inspired recipe and prebiotic

681
00:47:33,720 --> 00:47:36,320
fiber.
The shelf stable broths are

682
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,960
available in chicken, beef,
venison and pork and they're

683
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:46,880
unique for a myriad of reasons.
One, we do not use a typical

684
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,640
shelf stabilization process on
them.

685
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:53,040
Majority of the food landscape
will use what's called retort,

686
00:47:53,240 --> 00:47:56,600
which is a high heat exposure
sort of flash treatment to

687
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:00,480
mitigate pathogen presence to
make it shelf stable or

688
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:04,360
irradiation.
Those are the two fastest most

689
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:09,160
commonly accessed method.
Our broth is actually made shelf

690
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:13,280
stable with aph neutralization
process.

691
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:17,320
So we leverage that apple cider
vinegar that is in these broths

692
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:21,560
and lemon to make it aph neutral
environment that prevents

693
00:48:21,720 --> 00:48:25,120
pathogen growth.
So we don't alter the

694
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:29,120
ingredients themselves with any
of those sterilization processes

695
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:34,400
and we keep the efficacy of the
functional pairings sound

696
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:39,640
because it's great if you put
ashwagandha in a recipe, but if

697
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:43,520
it has been so heavily heat
treated or processed, it's not

698
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,400
viable by the time you're
consuming it or your pet is

699
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,640
consuming it.
Then we've sort of loved the

700
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,840
original intent.
But the pairings are a beef with

701
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:58,480
lavender, the chicken with
clove, the venison has the

702
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,200
chicken and then pork with
mushroom.

703
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,120
How nice.
And the pork recipes and venison

704
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,680
broth are two of my most
favorites.

705
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,920
Venison is only found in the
shelf stable broth for the small

706
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,160
batch products as of right now.
And the bones themselves

707
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:23,040
actually come from the Maui Nui
venison program, which I love in

708
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,240
sort of the holistic community.
Maui Nui program has gotten a

709
00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:30,520
little bit of spotlight
recently, but yeah, it's it's a

710
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,880
program that really gives
reverence to the island

711
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:38,240
ecosystem to control the
population of access deer that

712
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:43,560
live there so that they, you
know, keep the population in

713
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,680
check, but they are then
utilizing the whole animal once

714
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,720
those animals are processed in
the treat space.

715
00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:56,480
New and coming soon, we are
going to be showing some really

716
00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:00,160
exciting single ingredient
freeze dried fish treats.

717
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:05,480
Small batch has not ventured
into fish concealed this point

718
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:10,480
and reasons being finding
suppliers that meet small batch

719
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:14,640
standards is an even trickier
undertaking when it comes with

720
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:18,200
fisheries.
There is a lot less visibility

721
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,280
when you take things offshore
then when you've got an

722
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:25,480
operation on land that you can
manage with with real

723
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:27,840
consistency.
So we are going to be adding

724
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:32,360
some freeze dried Pollock, some
freeze dried rainbow trout and

725
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:37,360
some freeze dried blue mussels
to the options in the treat

726
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:41,520
space, which we are thrilled
about.

727
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,440
And those are also all labeled
for dogs or cats.

728
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:49,920
So something for everybody.
Awesome.

729
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,840
Well, this actually will not air
until after global.

730
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:58,600
So I'm excited for all the new
stuff and the new recipes and

731
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:02,720
just for everything you guys are
doing and being like transparent

732
00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:05,320
about your sourcing.
I think that's one of the

733
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:09,680
biggest things for me when I am
recommending pet foods is like,

734
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:14,440
I can't figure out if I don't
know if you're not being open

735
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:16,800
and honest about where you're
getting everything from.

736
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,040
Like, I don't.
I just don't know how, but but

737
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,760
that's me.
That's just me, yeah.

738
00:51:22,240 --> 00:51:26,040
Yeah.
Yeah, so I appreciate it and I

739
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:27,600
appreciate what you guys are
doing.

740
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:31,240
I look forward, I will not be at
global I, but I I plan on being

741
00:51:31,240 --> 00:51:33,400
at super Zoo, so hopefully I'll.
See you there.

742
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:37,160
Yeah.
And yeah, is there anything else

743
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:41,440
that I, you've touched on so
many things that like I don't

744
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:42,880
even have to ask questions
about?

745
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:49,080
This is a great conversation and
you know, the opportunity to

746
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,760
really talk to our customer base
and give them new things to

747
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,440
think about when it comes to
picking a raw food, picking

748
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,000
treats, aligning themselves with
a company.

749
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:03,680
You know, I'm, I'm always
hopeful that we can give a

750
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:08,800
little bit of, you know, fuel to
the fire, so to speak, not only

751
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:12,600
not only reiterate that small
batch standards, I think are of

752
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:16,760
a caliber unto themselves, but
the products that we've produced

753
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:22,760
for 20 years have continued to
hit that that mark and we're

754
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:27,640
excited to see what comes.
So thank you so much for being

755
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:32,440
here and for helping, you know,
just continuing to educate pet

756
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:37,920
parents about, you know, it's
it, as I just said, like it's

757
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,760
not just look at the ingredient
label.

758
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:44,120
That's a really great place to
start that we should all be

759
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:48,000
doing.
But we unfortunately have to go

760
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,040
beyond the ingredient label and
say, OK, but where is this

761
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,720
coming from?
And like you said, whole cuts of

762
00:52:53,720 --> 00:52:58,680
meat, that's that's there are so
many intricacies that we don't

763
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:02,320
talk about enough.
And again, part of that, I do

764
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,600
think is it's a privilege to be
able to have these

765
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:09,120
conversations, to be able to
think far enough out.

766
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:12,080
That's just not how am I going
to feed my pet today?

767
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:15,400
Like I get, but you know, we're
privileged to have these

768
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:19,240
conversations, but they still
are conversations that I think

769
00:53:19,240 --> 00:53:20,720
are important and need to be
had.

770
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,120
So thank you so much.
Yeah, absolutely.

771
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:27,560
It's a problem for us to get to
nourish so many pet bowls.

772
00:53:27,720 --> 00:53:32,720
And we encourage, I think 1
message to take away is reach

773
00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:36,040
out to your brands and ask them
the questions directly.

774
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:40,400
That is a real, real good way to
do your best to make sure you're

775
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,520
getting accurate information.
You know what?

776
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:45,560
I actually did have one more
question if you don't mind.

777
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:47,080
I know we're like already in an
hour.

778
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:52,200
But.
I, I, it wasn't on my list and

779
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,000
I'm just in my head was like, I
want to ask this question.

780
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:57,920
I hate that I have to ask this
question.

781
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:03,400
Quite honestly, I'm so perturbed
by what has been happening this

782
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:06,240
year.
Neither here nor there.

783
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,760
You guys are.
I saw, you know, you're on Susan

784
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:12,800
Thixon's list, which is
something I always recommend

785
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:16,320
people check out, if for no
other reason to see what

786
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:19,880
criteria she's looking for.
So that you as a pet parent are

787
00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:22,760
also starting to understand the
criteria that you want to be

788
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,960
looking for in a pet food.
But that it is all human grade.

789
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:30,240
And I think that in itself is
it's not always something that I

790
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:34,360
am like dead fast 100% that it
has to be.

791
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:39,440
But when it comes to HPAII think
that's a that's a pretty good

792
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:44,320
standard to have with do have
poultry recipes and chicken

793
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:47,040
specifically and they are raw
for cats.

794
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:50,320
So I don't know if I remember
Small Batch put out a statement

795
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:52,120
just like everybody else but.
Yeah.

796
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:55,680
With what you guys are doing?
Absolutely.

797
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:59,440
It's important to say it first.
It's a fluid.

798
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:04,320
It's a fluid situation, you
know, I don't, I don't know that

799
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:09,800
anyone has a crystal ball for
what the most ideal path forward

800
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:13,880
is.
But as of today being closely

801
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,120
connected with each of our
suppliers, we talked about that

802
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:21,760
earlier, our direct contract
makes a lot of the communication

803
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:25,120
with the places that our raw
materials are coming from a

804
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:30,280
whole lot easier for us
exclusively human grade are

805
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:35,280
prepared for human meat channels
or consumption is the next most

806
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:39,680
important thing because the
practices that are implemented

807
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:45,040
at that supplier level is
absolutely the most critical

808
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:47,880
layer of what we have to lean on
right now.

809
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:53,600
So their regular implementation
of FDA recognized testing

810
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:57,720
procedures is crucial.
What we are looking at next

811
00:55:57,720 --> 00:56:04,760
though is as more testing
potentially becomes available,

812
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:11,200
anything that is accessible for
testing a finished product,

813
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:16,280
commercially prepared pet food
will be what we've got in our

814
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:19,000
sights.
As of right now, that doesn't

815
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,720
exist.
So doing the test and hold

816
00:56:21,720 --> 00:56:24,760
procedures for the pathogens
that we do regular test

817
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:28,080
regularly test for is what we've
got to focus on.

818
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:31,880
We do have the freeze dried
options for cats.

819
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:36,760
That is actually an alteration
process and the temperature that

820
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:40,840
is involved in freeze drying
mitigates pathogens.

821
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:46,280
So for people that maybe want a
guarantee safer choice, freeze

822
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:49,800
dried meal bites for cats is a
great way to do that.

823
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:54,360
And then we will also be talking
about it a little bit at Global,

824
00:56:54,360 --> 00:57:01,320
but we have had a cooked recipe
for cats in the works as kind of

825
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:04,960
a background R&D project for
several years now.

826
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:08,640
Wow.
So not actually in response to

827
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:13,120
this at all, but because we want
small batch caliber materials in

828
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:16,560
a format that people may find a
little bit more, you know

829
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:20,280
reassurance in that has been
focused.

830
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:23,960
It actually at the end of last
year sort of came back to the

831
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,760
forefront as one of the next
things that we wanted to get to

832
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:30,240
market.
But we will be having a

833
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:36,840
perfectly cooked cat slider
available in the marketplace

834
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:40,000
hopefully by late summer of this
year.

835
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:43,960
So, you know, we're kind of
coming at it from a few

836
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,880
different directions.
But that that real regular

837
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:51,240
stringent communication with
suppliers is absolutely Ground

838
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:52,800
Zero.
Yeah.

839
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,680
Yeah, I appreciate that.
So again, thank you so much for

840
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:58,560
your time.
Thank you so much for what you

841
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:03,840
guys are doing in the industry
and for pets and I just

842
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:07,920
appreciate you guys and hope to
see you later on this year.

843
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:09,800
So thank you again.
For good.

844
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:13,320
Thank you for all of your
messaging and advocacy too,

845
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:17,520
because it's channels like this
that we get to have the detail

846
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:21,560
in those discussions that it's
hard to translate in a lot of

847
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:24,200
other formats.
So we appreciate the opportunity

848
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:26,080
to talk with you and all your
listeners.

849
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:30,120
Well, guys, thank you so much
for being here with us today.

850
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:33,840
Thanks to Nicole and give your
pets some extra love from both

851
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:36,080
me and Nicole today and I will
talk to you next.

852
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:36,400
Week.
Thanks.

853
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:38,720
Bye.