199. Raw Feeding for Cats: The Truth About Ingredients, Sourcing, and Formulation

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Welcome back, pet parent.
I always like to anytime we can

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kind of call out cats, you know,
I like to do that.

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And so today's guest, we are
doing just that.

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This is a food brand that I came
across not too terribly long

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ago.
I was like trying to file it in

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my memory because I really liked
the ingredient profile.

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And then just randomly I got an
e-mail one day and I was like,

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Oh my gosh, this is that food
company that I wanted to

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remember that I forgot.
So I am really excited that

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Sabrina Simmons is with us here
today.

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She is the founder of I Want You
to Say It.

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There you go.
Like I don't, I don't know how

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you would just casually say roar
like you have to be like with

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the hands and everything.
So thank you so much for being

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here and thank you for being an
advocate for feeding cats

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species appropriate food.
I would love to just start out

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by welcoming you and learning a
little bit about you and your

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background and starting the
company.

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Yeah, well, thank you for having
me.

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It's really nice to be able to
chat cat, you know?

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So I've been making cat food
actually since 2003.

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I adopted a little kitten and he
was adorable and smelly and all

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sorts of issues and I was kind
of at the end of my rope with

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what to do with him.
I visited a lot of vets, I put

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him on prescription diets and
I've always kind of lean towards

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holistic medicine.
So he had acupuncture and he saw

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a nutritionist and nothing
really fixed what was going on.

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And at some point, I just was on
the Internet and this was 2003,

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right?
So I think I was in a Yahoo

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group and someone was talking
about raw feeding.

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And it just made sense.
Like lions don't cook their

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food, they don't eat kibble.
So I thought, well, I'm at the

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end of my rope here.
And so was he.

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So we gave it a shot and I made
him food.

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And honestly, it was maybe
somewhere between a week and 10

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days.
And he was like a brand new cat.

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It was amazing.
He had energy, his litter box

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was clean.
He was just a completely

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different cat.
So I thought great, and I did

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that for years and then somehow
ended up in a women's business

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class and I wrote this beautiful
30 page, you know, business plan

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that looks zero.
It's not even recognizable to

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what I'm doing now.
It was ambitious.

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It looks good, you know, and
slowly from that class, I just

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slowly started gaining, you
know, other pet parents who were

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interested in raw feeding for
their cats.

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So I was making it out of my
home, delivering it to people's

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doorstep.
And then it just sort of grew.

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I got a brick and mortar.
We've had a couple processing

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facilities and now, now we have
a really solid cat food that's

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available, you know, to the
public.

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I think I'm most proud that
we've stuck to our integrity

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this entire time.
So we're still using the same

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farms we were using in 2010 and
it's just a really clean,

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species appropriate meal for
cats.

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You know, my focus here is cats.
We are not a dog food company

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that figured out how to make it
work for a cat's nutritional

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profile.
Yeah.

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Well, and that is something that
I think a lot of companies do.

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They're they're they make a dog
food and they're like, oh, I

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guess we should make a cat food
too, right?

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Like that's what it feels like.
Well, it's like capitalize on

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the market, you know, and for me
they're, they are different

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animals for sure.
And they do have different

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nutritional needs.
So is there a way that you can

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kind of make it work for both?
Yes.

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But if you're really, you know,
our customers love their cats,

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like they're very, very engaged
with their cats.

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Most of them are really big on
the environment and eating clean

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themselves.
And I think that's what draws

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them to our products.
You know, everything we're using

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is really sustainable.
It's all human grade.

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We don't put anything in there
that isn't listed on the

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ingredient panel.
So I think keeping that

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transparency and that honesty
is, is a big thing for pet

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parents who are really, you
know, interested in giving their

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cats the best possible diet.
Yeah.

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Well, and you know, The thing
is, somebody like me, I say this

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all the time.
I started out with my dogs

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feeding them fresh foods, and
then I was like, well, I'll just

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add in fresh foods to my cat's
diet, too.

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It was really my dogs that like
propelled me to, you know, go

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down the rabbit hole of getting
my cats healthier too.

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And I think that happens with a
lot of people just, you know,

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average pet parents.
And I don't know exactly why

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that is.
We've, I've talked about it on

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the podcast before with some
other people.

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But once I really got into this,
once I really was like, this is

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what I want to do with my life.
I started the podcast.

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I've, I've got, you know, 2
nutrition certifications, all

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the things they absolutely, 100%
want people to feed dogs a

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species appropriate diet.
But to me, I'm in my mind, I'm

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like, it's even crazier that we
don't feed cats, generally

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speaking, a species appropriate
diet.

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Like OK, dogs are, you can ask
10 people and you're probably

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going to get 10 different
answers.

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But the way I've learned it,
facultative carnivores, cats

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being obligate carnivores, like
we're doing so feeding the exact

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same thing to a dog and to a
cat.

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If, you know, feeding a kibble
diet like most people in in

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first world countries do, we are
doing potentially even more

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damage to our cats because they
are obligate carnivores.

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And so I, I like it, just, I
don't know, I guess it still

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boggles my mind that like, how
do we not start with our cats?

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It's a huge disservice to cats,
you know, And you're so right.

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People will go into specialty
stores and just buy all these

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things for their dogs, and then
you'll see them in the aisle of

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a grocery store throwing kibble
or cans or whatever is on sale

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into their cart, you know, And
it is pretty confusing.

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I think a lot of it's just a
lack of education.

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But I think a lot of it is also,
you know, when you view cats,

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you're like, oh, they're so
independent, take care of

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themselves.
They don't need much.

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Whereas dog, you know, I mean,
there's my cat and then there's

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five dogs in the household.
And the cat does rule Bruce.

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She's in charge, but she
requires the least amount of

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attention and engagement, you
know, compared to the dogs.

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She just, yeah, she kind of
just, she's so confident and has

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so much independence.
She just does what she wants.

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Whereas the dogs are like, now
what can I, can you pat me?

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Can I sit next to you?
You know, just never ending

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attention.
And that really gets people to

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kind of they're on your mind,
you know, a lot more than your

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cat who's at home and probably
sneezing.

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Yeah, that's true.
I know.

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Like when I leave the house, my
dog literally cries and yells.

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And like I do have one cat who
actually when I'm here she

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demands my attention even more
than my dog.

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But she's not like yelling and
screaming when I walk out the

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door either.
It is easier to leave, I get

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that far.
Yeah, exactly.

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So, OK, tell me a little bit
about because you, you were

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talking about you're using the
same farms you're very much into

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like clean eating and I we'll
get there.

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Tell me a little bit about like
the recipes and the sourcing and

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we'll kind of go from there
because I have a lot of

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thoughts.
OK.

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Yeah, absolutely.
So our recipes, you know, I

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formulate the recipes, we have a
vet nutritionist that we work

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with and we also send it out for
lab testing.

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So we're kind of checking all
the boxes to make sure, yeah,

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this is really formulated
correctly.

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But whenever I build a recipe,
my goal is to get the majority

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of the nutrients from the meat
and the Oval going into that,

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you know, protein.
So we always start with the

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whole animals.
And so there's whole chickens,

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whole rabbit, whole ducks.
Our turkeys are not whole right

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now because of the calcium
phosphorus.

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That was really not quite right
with whole turkeys going in.

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But every choice that we make is
there's thought behind it,

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right?
So I, I always felt like if

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we're going to feed chicken, I
want the whole bird going in.

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I don't want our first
ingredient to be chicken frames

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or chicken necks or.
And the unfortunate piece with

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AFCO, as you probably know, is
there are many things that are

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chicken.
Yeah.

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And it's hard to define like
this is what's going into our

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product versus another product.
So you know, for chicken for

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example, it's whole chickens.
Then we do add in some necks and

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then we add in organ meat.
So it's hearts, livers,

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gizzards, egg yolk, and then
from there any oils or

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supplementation that we need.
But based just on using clean

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meats, because we, you know,
because of the meats we're

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using, we have to get a
nutritional analysis done on

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those specific proteins so that
we know what's actually in

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there.
Just from that, you know, we're

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able to make a recipe that only
needs a half percent of

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supplementation.
And that half a percent of

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supplementation is really to
ensure that we're meeting AFCO

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standards because there's
certain vitamins or minerals

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that are hard to gain from
certain proteins.

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And I know there's a big push
against supplements, like

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they're, they're evil now, but
they aren't, you know, if used

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appropriately, I think they're
really beneficial.

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And my concerns always, well,
some people, some people feed

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their cat the same protein their
entire lives.

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And I want to know, OK, if your
cat's only eating chicken, that

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cat's going to thrive
regardless.

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So, you know, one of the
ingredients we need to add into

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our chicken recipe is copper.
Chicken doesn't have very much

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copper in it.
And we tried working around

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this, like, we'll put lamb liver
in and the cats were like, what

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did you do this?
You know?

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So we really focus on building a
nice clean, you know, meal from

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the proteins that we're getting
in the things that are available

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to us.
Yeah.

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Well, so the when you say clean
proteins, can you elaborate a

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little bit on that?
I guess I'm speaking more to the

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sourcing and the actual type of
animal itself.

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So we are actually the only GAP
certified raw food on the

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market.
So that means the farms have a

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certification that ensures
they're using humane standards

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from beginning to end.
So that goes on with how the

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animals are slaughtered, how
they're handled, their access to

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the sun and the outdoor, how
they're fed, how clean their

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water is.
So they have someone coming in

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and auditing this, you know, to
ensure that hey, you're holding

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up to these specifications you
claim to have.

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And then we are also audited to
make sure that what we're saying

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is going into our products is
what's going into our products.

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But it's really great because
you can see the difference

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between using a whole bird
that's grown up on a sustainable

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farm versus something coming
from a factory farm.

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I mean, you know, I and we never
sway on this.

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So the ingredients going in are
really, you know, they're prime.

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I mean I've eaten them, you
know, pre cat food making.

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I'll be like.
Of course, I don't know if

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there's people that have eaten
our food for sure, but yeah,

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when I say clean, I think I'm,
I'm speaking to the sourcing.

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You know, everything's, we're
trying to make sure that what

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we're doing is good for the
cats, but it's also good for the

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environment and honors the
animals going into our food.

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All of that, it's, well, it's
all integrated really.

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If an animal is under a lot of
stresses, they're growing,

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they're not going to
nutritionally be as viable as

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something that's had a happy,
healthy life and been outdoors

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and been treated with kindness
and care.

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Yeah, well, and what they eat,
but I think that's probably

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also, you know, when you are
raising them more humanely,

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you're you are more considerate
about feeding that animal what

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is species appropriate for them,
which again, in turn is going to

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provide a very different
nutritional profile.

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And that's one of the things
that I probably don't highlight

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enough on this podcast because
so many people when they join,

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when they first join the world
of raw feeding, especially with

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dogs, they're like, I can just
make this myself and you can.

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And you can with your cats too.
But it is not super easy if you

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are trying to feed off of a
spreadsheet, which is what

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Africa wants you to do, right?
And the quality as you said of

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each ingredient matters when
like if you're just using

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00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:26,560
formulation software, which is
something that I do, you are

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just getting the averages from,
you know, the USDA database,

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right?
So what you just said about you

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are you're testing these
ingredients because you know

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their nutritional profiles are
going to be vastly different

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from whatever that USDA database
is.

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And you want to work off of that
food versus an average of that

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type of food.
And that again, is something I

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00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:58,160
don't think I talk enough about
here on this podcast.

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And it's something that is so
incredibly important and which

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what makes foods like yours and
a handful of others very, very

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different from the rest of the
foods out there, I think.

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00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,080
Yeah, absolutely.
And I love that when people want

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to make their own food, but I
do, I always, I do caution them

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00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,800
because after years of doing
this, it's it's not that simple.

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00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,440
And there's the piece that I
think is hard to understand

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00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,120
until you're actually deep into
formulating is, well, this is

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00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:29,960
off a little bit, so I'll adjust
this.

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00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:31,960
And how does that affect
everything else?

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00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,520
So I, you know, personally, I
always encourage people to,

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00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,280
yeah, pick, pick a nice
commercial raw food, one that

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you feel really strongly about
and, and keep that in the

253
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,640
rotation as well, right?
So that if there's any LAX in

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what is happening on your end
and keep it varied.

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00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,600
That's the hardest part with
cats especially, is I want

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people to introduce as many
items as possible.

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I mean, my cat will eat
anything.

258
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:07,240
She's crazy and it's good mostly
until she's on the counter

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00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,520
eating.
I don't know what, but it's,

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00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,440
it's nice to be able to have
that variety and offer them a

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00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,120
lot of textures, a lot of
tastes, you know, a lot of

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00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:16,840
different smells.
I want to hear a little bit more

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00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,880
about this cat because as we
were like chatting before I hit

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00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,920
record, you were like, all of my
cats have always just eaten

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00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,360
whatever.
And I'm like, how has the

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00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,240
universe blessed you with the
handful of cats in this world?

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00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:33,240
We'll just eat whatever.
You know, I don't, I don't know.

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00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:37,120
I mean, I do have to say a, a
little piece of it, at least

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00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,840
from what I've experienced with
some of my family, mom is like

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00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,520
the more stress that you have
regarding what your cat's

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00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,560
eating, the more you're worried
and the more pressure you put on

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00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,880
them and why aren't you eating
and you need to eat and let's

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00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,960
try this and let's try that.
I feel like it just complicates

274
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,640
it even more, you know, whereas
I've sort of just had a little

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00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,800
bit of a hands off approach to
it.

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00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,560
Try this, try that.
And with my cat, because she

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00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,080
grew up with dogs, my cat, I
used to have a coffee shop that

278
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,880
was attached to a nonprofit cat
rescue.

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00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:15,280
We were the first cat Cafe in
the US cat town.

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00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,880
And my coffee shop And someone,
these people brought in this

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00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,680
tiny kitten one day.
I think she must have been maybe

282
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,840
two days old and she still had
her umbilical cord.

283
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:29,200
And I was like, OK, because I
have this kitten now.

284
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,720
So, you know, I raised this tiny
little kitten, got up with her

285
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,200
every two hours to feed her.
It was the crankiest, probably

286
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,840
four to six weeks of my life,
Just I was, you know, so

287
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,160
exhausted.
But because of that, I think,

288
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,040
you know, she was so adaptable.
She's always been on raw food

289
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,360
since she could eat.
So she went straight from

290
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,320
formula to raw food and was with
the dogs the whole time.

291
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,680
And so she's really been very
open to what what foods she

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00:16:55,680 --> 00:17:00,120
eats, whereas other cats, you
know, cat transitioning from a

293
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:04,960
dry food, especially to a raw
food, it's cumbersome and it

294
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:09,520
takes a lot of time and a lot of
determination as the parent.

295
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:14,160
Yes, for sure I, I and I have
heard this too.

296
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,760
I have not yet experienced it
myself.

297
00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:23,400
All of my cats are quite old at
this point, so they all were fed

298
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,560
kibble for many years at the
beginning of their lives.

299
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,160
But I have heard that if you
start right away, like as

300
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:34,360
they're waning from the mother
or if you're having to bottle

301
00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:37,640
feed them as you did, then it's
almost like, you know, as long

302
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,960
as you're giving them lots of
different variety, we understand

303
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,920
that all of these different
things are food.

304
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,880
So that later on in life, it's
not like the only thing I knew

305
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,040
to be food was this crunchy
stuff with palatants on top of

306
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,000
it.
Like that's how so many animal,

307
00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:57,600
so many cats are like that.
That's the only thing they

308
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:02,000
understand to be food.
So I would love if you would

309
00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:07,800
maybe give our listeners some
tips and some advice on, because

310
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,320
I'm sure you have worked with
people over the years who have

311
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:16,360
had cats that were at one point
on kibble, how you advise them

312
00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:20,960
to transition to a fresher food
diet, ideally a raw food diet.

313
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,320
Yeah, absolutely.
I think there's a couple pieces

314
00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:27,560
that are really important.
And the first piece is, you

315
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,400
know, I run across a lot of
people who just beat themselves

316
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,440
up over the fact that they've
been feeding kibble.

317
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,360
OK?
It's that's it's not helpful to

318
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:38,160
you or to the cat.
It's not not good.

319
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,360
It's what a lot of us have
learned.

320
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:42,680
And at least that's what I grew
up with.

321
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,600
You know, my dogs lived outside.
They ate kibble.

322
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,840
They were the dogs, right?
They weren't part of the family.

323
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,240
And there was just a different
mindset with that.

324
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:57,720
And so if your cat's on kibble,
it's OK if we can, we can get

325
00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,720
get to another place.
But, you know, it's, it's not

326
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,160
really something that I think
people need to take to heart so,

327
00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:07,600
so much or to feel judged.
I don't want anyone to feel

328
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:12,120
judged about this.
So that's step one, and Step 2

329
00:19:12,120 --> 00:19:15,000
is remembering who a cat is and
where they came from, right?

330
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:19,400
I mean, when you mentioned that
starting a cat earlier on a very

331
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,320
diet is important, that's
absolutely true.

332
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,160
Cats are imprint eaters and I
don't know if a lot of people

333
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,880
realize that.
So imprint eating, for anyone

334
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:33,040
who doesn't know, is essentially
cats from generally the ages of

335
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,640
three weeks to 8 weeks.
Really pay attention to what

336
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,720
their mothers are teaching them
is food.

337
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:43,680
And that is what imprints on
them as this is food, everything

338
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,040
else is not food.
And the reason for this, it's

339
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,400
really a safety measure for the
cat.

340
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,840
You know, as a parent, as a cat
parent, you don't want your cat

341
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,040
going off and eating something
that's going to hurt them.

342
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,520
So they take to heart what food
is and what isn't.

343
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,520
And that's the first thing that
we need to remember is that when

344
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,280
your cat looks at something you
give them and is like, no, thank

345
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,840
you.
It's not because they're just

346
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,200
being jerks.
They're, you know, they really

347
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,800
are trying to protect themselves
and are following their their

348
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,480
instinct.
So those two pieces, I think if

349
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,880
we keep those in mind, like
you're not in a rush.

350
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,120
We'll go at the cat's pace and
we can get there.

351
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:26,280
It can happen.
So for kibble fed cats, there's

352
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,720
some tricks.
They don't all work on every

353
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,680
cat.
The first thing though would be

354
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,720
to take that kibble away during
the day and implement feeding

355
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,560
times.
If you have feeding times, it

356
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,280
gets the cat a hungry and be
more excited to eat.

357
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:46,360
So this is a it can be tricky
because you have cats that cry,

358
00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:48,080
where's my food?
Where's my food?

359
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,480
So eventually you want to get
them down to maybe 20 minutes in

360
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,080
the morning, 20 minutes in the
evening with their kibble before

361
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,600
you change anything.
Just, you know, take it in

362
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,000
stages so you're not scaring the
cat away.

363
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,440
So once you have them on a
feeding schedule, that's when I

364
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,280
suggest adding in things that
have either a similar texture or

365
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:16,720
a similar smell so that they can
start to slowly add new flavors

366
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,600
to their palate.
So this is where freeze dried

367
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,480
food I think is great.
Freeze dried food has a texture,

368
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,600
you know, if you don't moisten
it, it has a texture more

369
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,000
similar to kibble.
It also does tend to have a

370
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:33,320
little bit more of a smell to it
because texture, smell, taste,

371
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,640
all of those factor and even
temperature factor into what a

372
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,480
cat thinks is food.
And so any of those being

373
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,120
different is is hard for them to
get their head around.

374
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,200
So I think freeze dried is
great.

375
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,320
Any sort of toppers that your
cat likes is great.

376
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,600
I think I was telling you a few
weeks ago about my 1 customer

377
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:57,200
who really wanted her cat on raw
food, but it would only take the

378
00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,160
raw food if she put it on a corn
chip.

379
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:03,440
And I said, if that's what it's
going to take and she didn't, it

380
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,160
wasn't, it's not like she fed
her cat a whole bag of corn

381
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,360
chips, but she would just
sprinkle a little bit on there

382
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,800
and, you know, slowly take the
corn chips away and keep the raw

383
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,560
food going.
And it was a pretty smooth

384
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,800
transition actually.
So the freeze dried, the toppers

385
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,480
are great.
And then just taking it very,

386
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,280
very slowly.
So you're going to want to go

387
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,280
kibble, probably freeze dried
and then you can start

388
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,880
moistening that freeze dried and
then adding in some wet food all

389
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,640
the way to raw food.
And this, this could take

390
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,480
months, honestly, because it is
it takes dedication on your part

391
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:43,640
if you want this to happen.
And some cats are very quick to

392
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,880
transition.
The only thing I caution with

393
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,440
that though, is going from a dry
kibble to a raw food.

394
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:55,760
You know it can upset stomachs.
So doing a transition is always

395
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,120
important and you don't need to
take it quite as slow if your

396
00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:01,760
cat's on board.
But I used to tell people put

397
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,560
1/4 of raw food and 3/4 of wet
food.

398
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,360
But I think at this point for a
lot of cats, even that's too

399
00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:10,880
much.
And sometimes to just be, you

400
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:15,920
know, a little tiny dollop of
raw food really mixed in with

401
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:20,680
that wet food and and then that
slow transition over over a few

402
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,040
weeks to get them completely on
board.

403
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,840
The other thing I caution
against is don't starve your

404
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,320
cat.
They're not, they're not the

405
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,440
type of animal that I'm going to
get hungry enough, so I'll eat.

406
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,960
They're the type of animal that
will get hungry enough that they

407
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,520
end up with the fatty liver and
in the vet emergency room.

408
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,520
And that's just, you know, it's
not a it's not a battle.

409
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,040
Again, in their minds, they're
like, you were trying to poison

410
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:46,520
me.
Why would you do this?

411
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:51,680
So let's, let's carefully take
you from here to here at your

412
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:52,560
pace.
Really.

413
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:58,120
Yes, absolutely.
And I don't know if you've dealt

414
00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:02,680
with this before or if this is
at all in the realm of what you

415
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:07,960
do, but I also know some people
who do energy work and that kind

416
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,920
of thing can sometimes be
beneficial to help cats kind of

417
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,680
get over certain.
Whether it's like a disgust for

418
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,160
the new food or whatever
aversions they may have.

419
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,320
If that's something you believe
in or you don't, but you just

420
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,000
want to try.
Personally, I believe in it.

421
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,280
I've never used energy work for
that specific.

422
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,520
I also, you know, with the
transitions I've done with my

423
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,800
previous cats, it didn't take a
terribly long time.

424
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,720
And I think that was also
because there were multiple

425
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,880
cats.
That's also helpful if you can

426
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,480
get one cat on board.
The other cats tend to be like,

427
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,920
OK, and there's other little
strategies that seem to help to

428
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,960
like changing where you're
feeding them, changing their

429
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,640
feeding, right?
This is a different a different

430
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,160
thing.
And also, you know, I always

431
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,480
like, I always encourage people
to exercise their cats, you

432
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,880
know, get them energized, get
them running around, do it

433
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:08,080
before meal time and and see
where that lands.

434
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:12,320
But I think energy work, yeah,
would be great because cats do

435
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,640
have aversions, especially if
they get sick on something.

436
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,760
If they scarf down a new food
and throw it up, it's like,

437
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,120
whoa, I don't ever want it
again.

438
00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:25,440
So it's really, there's a lot of
psychology behind cats.

439
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,640
You know, there's a lot of
things that are going on inside

440
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,320
their little bodies that they're
not always easy to read.

441
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,120
There is a lot going on, which
is why I always, I have always

442
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:37,560
said I feel like cats are harder
than dogs.

443
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,760
And I know I get a lot of
pushback on that.

444
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,120
Not that I think like I still
have them.

445
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,760
I'm not like telling people not
to have cats.

446
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:46,760
I'm just saying like they are
people.

447
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,560
I think people like go out and
they're like, oh, you want to

448
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,240
get a first pet, get a cat.
Like no, that is like probably

449
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,880
the most difficult pet to get.
Not that I'm saying to get a dog

450
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,320
first.
They're also probably not a good

451
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,040
first pet.
Like, I don't know, get a

452
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,840
goldfish or a gerbil or
something that I don't I I still

453
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,760
maybe a goldfish.
I don't know about gerbils, but

454
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:12,240
like there's, there's so many
intricacies that you are going

455
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,040
to be forced to learn over time
one way or the other, whether

456
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:21,560
that is by learning and growing
and improving their quality of

457
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,840
life through, you know,
lifestyle choices and nutrition

458
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,080
and things like that, or insane
vet bills.

459
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,080
And I have been down both roads.
So I can attest to the insane

460
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:38,520
vet bills that come along with
raising a cat on a standard

461
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,840
American diet and healthcare
system like that.

462
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,760
Just that's what it is.
But dogs too.

463
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,520
This one just wants to get on
camera.

464
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,160
That's great.
I think, you know, with cats,

465
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,840
especially when you were
speaking to them being obligate

466
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,080
carnivores and how important it
is for them to have a meat based

467
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:03,280
diet, I think the biggest issue
with the dry food is that

468
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,200
moisture content.
You know, people think, well my

469
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,960
cat will just drink more water.
No, they don't because they're

470
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,160
not really equipped to drink
water like drinking water is

471
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,880
almost for fun for them.
I, I don't know, but it's a,

472
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,760
it's kind of a rarity.
You know, I shared recently on

473
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,280
our Instagram just they have
done studies with cats and

474
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:28,520
essentially one full minute of
drinking water will hydrate 1 LB

475
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,160
of the cat's body weight.
So if you have an 8 LB cat,

476
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:37,840
you're looking for that cat to
drink for 8 minutes a day and

477
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,160
that's just not going to happen.
So when you have your dry food

478
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,960
that's probably 10 to 12%
moisture and then a raw food

479
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:49,000
diet that's 78% moisture, it
makes a huge difference.

480
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,320
And they're really relying on
their food for that moisture

481
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,840
when they don't get it.
You know, that's also where cats

482
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,960
get this, like, oh, my cats got
an attitude problem or it's

483
00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:02,640
cranky.
Well, I'd be cranky too if I was

484
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,680
dehydrated every day of my life,
right.

485
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,880
And then that's I think where a
lot of those vet bills end up.

486
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,600
You end up with kidney issues.
You end up with UT is and these

487
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,720
aren't things that cats normally
would would, you know, end up

488
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,200
with if they were said an an
appropriate diet.

489
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,680
Yes, absolutely.
And I, I, I will say I have

490
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,920
noticed.
So the one cat that keeps

491
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,400
jumping in front of the camera,
she's 17 this year.

492
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,840
My two boys are 16.
And just within this past like a

493
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,760
year, there is no dry food at
all in my house other than

494
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,440
freeze dried, which I mostly
rehydrate.

495
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:45,280
They only get freeze dried, not
rehydrated as a treat, but they

496
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,000
have definitely been drinking
more water like over this past

497
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,200
year.
And I have not noticed that with

498
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,160
any of my other cats as they
have gotten older.

499
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,800
Of course, I have a number of
cats that didn't get to this age

500
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,680
either because I did.
I did all the things and I know

501
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,400
I've said this so many times for
everybody listening, but I the

502
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:10,280
first close to seven years of
these cats lives, I was like

503
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,800
that person that did everything
my vet said to do, got all of

504
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:19,360
the vaccines on time every year.
All of my cats were on different

505
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,920
kibbles that the vet wanted them
to have that I bought at the

506
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,240
veterinarians.
Like I did all the things that I

507
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,840
thought I was supposed to be
doing as a good pet parent and

508
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,160
before learning that that was
all the wrong things to do.

509
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:32,920
But.
And so I do have a number of

510
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,160
cats that didn't make it this
long.

511
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,800
But yeah, it has been very
interesting to me to, like, just

512
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:44,240
notice how much more water they
are drinking now than they used

513
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:45,280
to.
And I'm like, I don't know what

514
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,080
this is, but OK, if you want to
drink it, drink it.

515
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,720
It's there for you.
Right.

516
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,600
Well, I, I wonder about that as
well, just with cats in that age

517
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,400
range, because I don't think
it's unusual to see an increase

518
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,440
in, in water intake.
And I think part of it may be,

519
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,800
you know, they are older and
their kidneys have been working

520
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,240
16 years, right?
You think about Wildcats, they

521
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:14,360
generally don't live to be 16.
And I'm not sure farm cats years

522
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:19,400
past would live to be 16, right?
We're kind of in a new era of

523
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,600
cat longevity.
And it's interesting to see how

524
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,040
that kind of moves.
And with that being said, you

525
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,680
know, we do.
So we have our bone in line of

526
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,000
cat food, but then we also have
our boneless line of cat food.

527
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,280
And so our boneless line of cat
food is made with eggshell

528
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,320
powder instead of bone.
And the reason for that is we

529
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,440
can decrease that phosphorus
level because phosphorus is, you

530
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,040
know, it's hard on the kidneys,
especially over time.

531
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,480
The other thing is, you know,
our bone in formulas are for all

532
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,960
life stages, so kitten through
adult, but then our boneless

533
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:58,320
line is for adult maintenance
because when you formulate for

534
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,480
an all life stages, you're
formulating for the most needy

535
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,240
of that age range, which is a
kitten, right?

536
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,800
A kitten's growing, it needs
more protein, it needs more

537
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,640
phosphorus, it needs more
calcium, it needs more fat for

538
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,040
an older cat, it doesn't need
all of that.

539
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,160
So those levels are, you know,
if you look at, I don't want to

540
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,200
say Afco's right or wrong, but
if you look at Afco's numbers

541
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,440
and you have kitten and then you
have adult maintenance, they are

542
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,760
different.
And so with our boneless line,

543
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,880
we were able to make one that is
just for adult cats and that

544
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,240
means they're not processing all
this excess that they don't

545
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,800
need.
So my hope is that for their

546
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:42,200
organs, you know, it really
alleviates some of that pressure

547
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,560
because, you know, older cats,
cats in general, get overlooked.

548
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,640
But geriatric cats are, like,
even worse though, you know?

549
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,040
Yeah.
Because I mean, like you said,

550
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:59,400
we're kind of in a newer era
where there are now like, yes, I

551
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,120
think we've always had cats that
lived, you know, 2021 years, but

552
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,480
like they seemed pretty darn
rare.

553
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,600
And as we get more and more pet
parents more and more aware and

554
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,840
educated, we are seeing more
cats living longer.

555
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,000
And it's, I mean, I know my
first cat that I ever had died

556
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:23,280
when he was 6.
Like I, my idea just came home

557
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,000
and he was, he was perfectly
healthy.

558
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,280
I think he, I don't know if it's
a blood clot or a stroke or I

559
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,200
have no idea.
And he was probably one of the

560
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,840
healthier cats I ever had
because he actually went outside

561
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,920
a lot, which was not my choice
at the time.

562
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,720
I thought that was horrible.
But like actually giving cats

563
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:42,840
that exercise grounding, like
there's a lot to be said about

564
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,480
that.
Granted, when we have put them

565
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,880
in a world that is very
dangerous for them to be outside

566
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:48,800
too.
So there's that's a whole other

567
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,600
conversation.
But he was pretty darn healthy

568
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,280
because of that, I think.
And so it was really sucked.

569
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,960
He was my very first cat on my
own as an adult.

570
00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:02,920
He was my very first cat.
So that was terrible.

571
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:07,280
So to get my, my oldest so far
has only lived to 19.

572
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,600
She passed away a few years ago.
But I'm like, I'm looking at

573
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,240
these 3 going all right, we've
got 19.

574
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,440
What are we going to get to
next?

575
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,760
Right.
So we're talking about like some

576
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,200
of these things that can go
wrong in a cat's life.

577
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:25,800
We've we've talked a little bit
about kid.

578
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:30,680
I think kidney, anything urinary
is very typical because of the,

579
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:32,880
the moisture that that you
talked about.

580
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,400
I actually just posted like I
reposted from one of my favorite

581
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,520
bone broth brands on Instagram
Reel that she did.

582
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,720
And I'm like I always say any
time anybody asks me if I can

583
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,480
only say one thing to somebody,
it's all I don't care if it's

584
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,400
dog or cat.
Like moisture is the hill I'm

585
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,320
going to die on.
And there are a lot of things I

586
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,440
would like to say to people, but
that is the one now if I can

587
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,800
only tell you one thing at all,
it's always going to be

588
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,320
moisture.
So there are a lot of things

589
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,400
that could be going on.
It could be going wrong in our

590
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,760
cats lives.
And one of those things that has

591
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:09,040
recently come about and I, I
will say I was telling you

592
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,480
before we jumped on, I opened up
the bag of chicken, the chicken

593
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:18,440
recipe for my cats yesterday.
Well, I opened it the day before

594
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,520
and thought it and they, they
ate it yesterday was the the

595
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,920
chicken recipe.
And I don't normally feed my

596
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:28,480
cats chicken, not for any reason
other than like there's so many

597
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,480
options out there and what I
usually feed them.

598
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,960
They don't even have a chicken
recipe And I did, even though I

599
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,639
have completely educated myself
on this topic and I have done

600
00:34:37,639 --> 00:34:42,040
lives and I have talked to
veterinarians and I understand,

601
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,360
I think to the best of the
ability that we have at this

602
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:50,600
point, which isn't great.
On HPAIII did like have a moment

603
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:55,719
of pause when I opened this bag.
So I would just like to give you

604
00:34:55,719 --> 00:35:00,360
the opportunity to talk about
feeding raw poultry right now is

605
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,120
a concern for cat parents.
And I know you and other

606
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,680
companies like you are doing a
lot to try to educate the public

607
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:13,360
and make sure that you're not
putting food out there that like

608
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,360
I want to say is infected with
HPAI.

609
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:20,360
But I also know there is a huge
difference in a dead virus and a

610
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,000
living virus.
And that is something that isn't

611
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:27,320
being talked about enough.
I think we, I don't know.

612
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,160
I'll let you, I'll, I'll let you
take over.

613
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,560
Thanks.
The bird flu, the current bird

614
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,280
flu virus that's out it it, it
is really concerning.

615
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:46,040
Also moved in a very strange way
that feels like it is definitely

616
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,000
targeting raw foods.
I agree.

617
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:55,600
So for us as a raw food company,
we put a lot of time and energy

618
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,840
into getting to know the farms
and having a good relationship

619
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,120
with them.
So, you know, I hop on calls

620
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,960
with them weekly almost just to
check in, see how things are

621
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,840
doing, understand their testing
policies and what they have

622
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,800
going on.
I spoke to one of the QCs last

623
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:16,120
week, you know, and they are
still testing daily for, for the

624
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:21,480
HPAI virus in live birds.
And you know, they have, they

625
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,920
have a pretty strict lockdown
going on over there with

626
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,400
anything entering or leaving the
facility, the testing they're

627
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,000
doing and then the protocols
they follow if they were to get

628
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,680
a positive.
And a lot of farms have, you

629
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,680
know, had a positive.
And the result is that they have

630
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:44,040
to call the entire flock, which
is, you know, the last one I

631
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,200
heard about was 3,000,000 birds.
So you can imagine getting 1

632
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,760
positive and then having three
million birds called.

633
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,480
It's, it's really upsetting.
You know, I've tried to talk to

634
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,440
so many people and so many
experts.

635
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,920
And the thing that's so
interesting is the more involved

636
00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:04,240
someone is in viruses or
virology, the less shocked they

637
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:06,560
are about what's they're just
like, it'll pass.

638
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,040
Yeah, it's been around for 20
years.

639
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:14,560
And the the piece that I believe
or my understanding is where

640
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,720
things went kind of awry was
that it hopped from poultry to

641
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:24,040
to dairy cows.
And that leap is kind of what,

642
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:28,560
you know, made this huge change
in the way the virus was

643
00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:30,880
previously.
I'm not making a lot of sense

644
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,280
here.
The nice thing is I was told

645
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:39,800
that the state veterinarian has
seen a major decline in positive

646
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:45,840
virus in dairy cow milk, which
is an indication that the virus

647
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,640
is actually starting to subside,
which makes a lot of sense.

648
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,200
It's March, right?
And and flu viruses in general,

649
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:56,240
just they love the winter.
The cold is, you know, ideal for

650
00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:59,040
them.
So with our farm, you know,

651
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,120
they're testing daily.
They're not letting anything out

652
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,480
that's positive.
They're actually doing a full

653
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,880
clean of the entire facility and
the products that are coming to

654
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,640
us.
We also are PCR testing our

655
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,320
finished product.
Now, none of this is obviously a

656
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,480
guarantee, but there's a lot of
pieces that I still don't

657
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:18,880
understand.
And I think a lot of people

658
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,520
don't understand.
Like you said, there's the live

659
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,480
virus, there's a dead virus.
There's also how much of this

660
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,440
virus is in the muscle meat that
a cat would be eating.

661
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:32,360
And cats are equipped to ingest
things and dogs that you and I

662
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,000
never could, and we never want
to.

663
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:39,040
So the question is, with these
viruses, it's very different if

664
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:43,320
there is a live bird with the
illness getting near a cat,

665
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:48,600
right, versus a cat eating a
piece of muscle meat that has

666
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:53,280
already been processed.
And I don't have a clear answer

667
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:59,280
here, but I find it concerning
the way that this entire has

668
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,800
been handled when it comes to
raw food because it's the second

669
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,120
a cat gets sick and there's any
link to them eating raw food.

670
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:07,400
Well, it's got to be the raw
food.

671
00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:11,520
Whereas, you know, we've seen
kind of an uptick in a few other

672
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,200
cat deaths or illnesses on the
East Coast from cats eating

673
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,040
commercial food, which you and I
know what's going in there.

674
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,440
And that is not safe in any way.
Yeah, yeah.

675
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,680
Because it's not raw food.
It's like, I guess these cats

676
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,000
got sick and, and it's like,
wait a second.

677
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,400
So the bag that you got was
tested by the way and it tested

678
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,560
negative.
So we are making sure that we're

679
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,880
doing the best that we can on
our end to kind of watch it have

680
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,760
traceability.
We even have those those results

681
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,200
posted on our website.
So there's a copy of the actual

682
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,800
lab results up there for people
because I do want people to feel

683
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,040
a little bit more comfortable
and safe.

684
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:55,640
And is there 100% guarantee that
there's no flu virus in any meat

685
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,600
available?
No, there's no way we can do

686
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,920
that.
But the key for me as well is

687
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,960
that the companies I'm working
with, the farms I work with are

688
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,680
the ones providing grocery
stores with food and the pieces

689
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,720
of the meat that I'm buying,
those whole birds, the necks,

690
00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:13,640
the liver, the hearts, they're
also getting sent to grocery

691
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:17,480
stores.
So for them to risk everyone

692
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,080
getting into the the human, you
know.

693
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:25,400
Food supply, I think they're
really, you know, active and

694
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,400
trying to prevent that from
happening because if, if you're

695
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,480
using 4D meat, sure, no one
cares.

696
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,200
But if you're using something
that's going to be in Whole

697
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,560
Foods, that case could have gone
to me or the Whole Foods.

698
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,160
Well, you know, we're going to
be really careful.

699
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,400
Despite the fact that it's going
to get cooked, probably by a

700
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,760
human, it's still, you know,
there's that precautionary

701
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,320
measure that they're taking.
I don't know if I answered your

702
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,160
question.
It's just such a complex thing

703
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,680
right now.
But I think, you know,

704
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:01,480
personally, knowing how cats can
process bacteria and other

705
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:06,520
viruses, I do wonder, you know,
and that would require someone

706
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:10,440
doing a study and really seeing
like once it hits that acidic

707
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:15,960
stomach, what happens?
And does that piece of meat

708
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:16,960
have?
I'm not.

709
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,880
This is the other piece with
dairy cows, for example, the

710
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,640
only place that they have found
that virus is in the milk.

711
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:28,200
It's not in the meat.
It's not even them sneezing or

712
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,280
going to the bathroom or their
eyes watering.

713
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,480
They can't pick up the virus
anywhere except in their milk.

714
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:38,600
So for these birds, is it where
does it lie inside of them?

715
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,560
It is.
Very interesting to me that is,

716
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:44,720
it's just complex and there's
so.

717
00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:47,680
Many, I feel like we need
private investigators to figure

718
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:52,120
out, you know, really what it,
what is going on here because I,

719
00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:56,200
there's so many pieces that are
unknown and it's a virus.

720
00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:00,080
So we know one person's gotten
sick and died from the virus,

721
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,560
but have other people been
carrying it?

722
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,520
And it passed from a human to a
cat?

723
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,400
The person didn't know.
We just don't know.

724
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,200
So highly contagious.
Yeah, well.

725
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:18,320
And I'm honestly unsure if is
even be, even though they have

726
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:23,000
found it in in Dairy Milk, if it
is even able to be transmitted

727
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,280
to cats through Dairy Milk.
Because I know when I went down

728
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:32,720
the rabbit hole of those cats in
Texas that they claimed it was

729
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:37,800
the Dairy Milk on the farm that
they were living on.

730
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,040
They were they were not
releasing the name of the farm.

731
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:46,000
But what I found was that any
farm like the area that it came

732
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,440
from, what I found was that
people that worked on that farm

733
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,920
did say that there were dead
birds found on the property that

734
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:58,040
also tested positive for HPA.
So I don't know how they could

735
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:04,440
conclude that it was the Dairy
Milk and not the dead birds that

736
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,920
were positive for HPAI that were
in contact with the cat.

737
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:11,400
I don't know how they could do
that other than to just say we

738
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,640
don't want people drinking raw
milk, so we're going to blame

739
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:15,800
the raw milk.
Yeah.

740
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,560
I think at that time they
weren't testing milk, correct,

741
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:20,760
Because now they do test the
milk.

742
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,640
They have a Yeah, I think.
Yeah.

743
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,480
This was, this was back in like
late January, I think.

744
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,320
Yeah.
The other thing is that you know

745
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,440
with.
With the dairy cows, after about

746
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,920
30 days, that virus is really,
it's dormant.

747
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,320
It's it's a non issue in their
milk.

748
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:43,240
So that the thing that's kind of
upsetting and concerning is a

749
00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:45,160
lot of these birds would
recover.

750
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:52,000
And you would think that instead
of calling all the birds, maybe

751
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,880
keep those live healthy ones
that have the virus because

752
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,120
there is that, right?
Well, that's how I read.

753
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:03,080
I think it's Joel Salatin, the
like really famous regenerative

754
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,000
farmer.
That's what he's he's out here.

755
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:09,200
Like, what are you people doing?
Like this is how populations

756
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,120
overcome these viruses is by
letting the ones that survive

757
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,120
the virus live.
Like, what are you doing?

758
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,600
He's too smart, I think.
He's the big threat to, you

759
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,640
know, Yeah, yeah.
People in charge because.

760
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:25,920
He's not wrong.
I mean, I feel like it's

761
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,720
virology.
One O 1, absolutely, yeah.

762
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,240
So I don't know, it's, it's
concerning and it's difficult,

763
00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:35,440
but I think, you know, what
happened was there was a lot of,

764
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,200
a lot of people run on fear.
You know, you hear them in that

765
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,800
that's, that's it.
That's where they go.

766
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,760
And so there have been a lot of
people turned off from raw food,

767
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,400
raw feeding.
And I've also noticed quite a

768
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:52,000
few of them are now struggling
because, well, my cat's not, you

769
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,160
know, my cat's got issues in the
litter box or my cat's throwing

770
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:59,680
up that's not doing well.
So it speaks very highly to the

771
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,760
benefits of raw food.
And I, I haven't stopped feeding

772
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,680
raw to any of my pets and I'm
not really planning on it.

773
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:12,240
I don't, I feel that, you know,
the risk is, is definitely low

774
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,440
and the reward is much higher.
And it's the same with my cat.

775
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,440
You know, you spoke about your
cat going outdoors and I know

776
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,400
that's not possible for all cats
because there are areas that are

777
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:26,920
just, it's too dangerous.
But my cat, yeah, she's outside

778
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,200
every day that she wants to be
and it is a risk.

779
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,880
And she has gotten injured.
She got bit by a rattlesnake,

780
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:40,000
which that was bad, you know.
But.

781
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:46,360
Again, it's, you know, risk
versus the benefits and I think

782
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,000
overall being outside and having
fresh air and the grounding, I

783
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,480
think that's actually a really
important piece that people

784
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:58,440
don't realize all really, you
know, I mean, she's a great cat.

785
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:02,720
She's in a good mood, she's just
pretty easy going.

786
00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:08,200
So there's a lot of factors to
consider with with cats and how

787
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:14,040
you want to raise them for sure.
Well, I very much appreciate you

788
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,080
coming on and sharing your
knowledge and talking about the

789
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:24,520
formulation, the recipes,
sourcing, which to me again, I

790
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:30,800
always like to kind of like
asterisks, but like I know that

791
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:36,160
this is a.
We are.

792
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:40,440
Privileged to be able to have
this kind of conversation on

793
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,400
sourcing on the quality of the
food.

794
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,600
There are so many people out
there that are just like, I'm

795
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,200
just trying to feed my animal
today, you know, like this is a

796
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,320
privileged conversation and I I
very much appreciate that.

797
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,080
But I also think it is
important.

798
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,960
It's important to not put your
head in the sand because it's

799
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:06,360
never going to change unless
people as far as like the

800
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:10,200
industrial farming and ranching
like those are, they're horrible

801
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,920
things, quite honestly, that I
would prefer not to support.

802
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,720
And that's, you know, if, if we
just stick our head in the sands

803
00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:18,080
and say, well, this is how it
is.

804
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:21,480
And I'm just trying to get by in
life, It just it allows it to

805
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,400
continue.
And for me, as you were saying

806
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:30,680
earlier too, like the the life
that the animals live before

807
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,920
they are slaughtered so that me
and my pets can eat them matters

808
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,320
to me.
Again, a very privileged thing

809
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:41,960
for me to be able to say that I
feel like it needs to be part of

810
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:43,560
the conversation we have with
ourselves.

811
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:45,520
Like this is where we're trying
to get to.

812
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:50,440
And so any time we can make tiny
little adjustments, changes,

813
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,720
whether it's buying that piece
of organic produce this week or

814
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,200
visiting the farmers market next
weekend and buying from a local

815
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:02,880
rancher like those are, it may
seem really small to you in the

816
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,720
moment, but they really add up
over time.

817
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:11,760
So I appreciate you having that
conversation so openly and and

818
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:17,520
that that's part of this brand.
Yeah, absolutely.

819
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:19,480
Yeah.
And that's, you know, the piece

820
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,680
I was speaking to earlier.
I hate it when people realize

821
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,760
what raw food, what its
potential is, and then, you

822
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,440
know, feel bad about where
they're at and what they're

823
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,960
capable of doing, you know, with
that.

824
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:36,120
So, you know, I think if my pets
weren't on raw food, I would at

825
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,520
the very least, probably get
them onto a canned food because

826
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:43,120
you're right, moisture is key.
And just that one piece can

827
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:47,760
really, you know, flip a switch
there, yeah.

828
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:50,920
Absolutely.
Is there anything else you'd

829
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,920
like to share that I maybe
didn't touch on about the brand

830
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,000
or cats in general?
We did.

831
00:48:58,000 --> 00:48:59,760
Send you some parts, correct?
Did we?

832
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:03,160
Yes, you did and I haven't.
Opened them yet, but you did you

833
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:05,440
have a parts department, which
is so cute.

834
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:10,440
We we have a parts.
Department and the parts

835
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:14,800
department, you know, they are
wonderful additions to your bowl

836
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,040
or to make your own meal mix and
match.

837
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:22,000
We're working on some recipes
we'll put put on our website so

838
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,360
people can see what things they
can add and what it looks like

839
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,840
nutritionally.
But my main purpose with that

840
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:33,800
was just well, initially it was
thinking back to 2003 and the

841
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:37,440
struggle I had to make a, a
complete meal right.

842
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,800
I couldn't find any DACA Turkey
O fall.

843
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,480
It was just awful.
So I was like, oh, we'll just

844
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,000
send out these parts.
And then as time went on, people

845
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,680
started requesting parts and it
was like, oh OK, well that's a

846
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:51,560
good part.
Let's add this and that.

847
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:57,000
You know, I brought a few home
and now literally there's

848
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,440
probably 6 different parts in my
fridge open at any time.

849
00:50:01,240 --> 00:50:02,920
All the animals get some of
them.

850
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:09,680
And what I really love is an
important piece with cats is and

851
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:14,800
dogs is they need to use their
jaws like it is mental

852
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:18,160
stimulation for them to have to
take a piece of meat and like

853
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,840
figure out, OK, how am I going
to get this in in there?

854
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,120
So it's great to watch them kind
of have to take their time

855
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:29,080
eating and just the excitement
with this variety of different,

856
00:50:29,240 --> 00:50:33,840
you know, foods to munch on.
Some of them are a bit big for

857
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,000
cats.
You know, those rabbit legs are

858
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:38,520
not going to throw down very
easily.

859
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,800
But again, if you want to, you
know, give your cat or dog

860
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:43,880
mental stimulation and it wears
them out.

861
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:46,960
So if you have a really active
dog and it's raining and you

862
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:48,520
can't really get them out too
much.

863
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:53,360
Yeah. 20 minutes of chewing on
something, I think it's good.

864
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,600
Yeah.
Yes, that is a very cool that I

865
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,080
actually.
Was creating some recipes for a

866
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:02,720
client last weekend and sent
them to your website for some of

867
00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:04,840
the parts.
That's great.

868
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:05,520
Yeah.
Thank you.

869
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:08,680
I am surprised I didn't.
Think of it, but I appreciate

870
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,600
that you did.
And guys, check out it's Eat

871
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:15,480
Like a lion.com, correct?
That's correct.

872
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:15,760
Yeah.
And.

873
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:20,160
Then on Instagram.
Is it also eat like a lion?

874
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:24,080
All right, guys, check out Eat
like a lion.com.

875
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,800
And I know you're not
necessarily all over the

876
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:31,800
country, but you are in some
parts of the country, correct in

877
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:35,040
scores we do online.
Shipping as well.

878
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:35,760
Perfect.
Yeah.

879
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:39,480
But yeah, we're working on,
we're working on getting all

880
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,320
across the country.
Yes, distribution is difficult.

881
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,600
So all right, guys, thank you so
much for being here and thank

882
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:47,400
you, Sabrina for being here as
well.

883
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:51,880
And from me and Sabrina this
week, give your pets a little

884
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,080
extra love and I will talk to
you next week.

885
00:51:54,240 --> 00:51:54,680
Thank you.