200. Raw Feeding Myths, Science & Truth – With Dr. Ian Billinghurst, Creator of the BARF Diet

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Welcome back pet parent.
This has to be the most excited

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I have ever been for a new
episode.

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And I just, I, I can't even
wait.

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Dr. Ian Billinghurst is a
retired veterinary surgeon, but

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you probably know him as the
father of raw feeding and he has

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been so gracious to join us
today to answer some questions

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that I hope will help you guys
in feeding your dogs and cats.

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So thank you so much Doctor
Billinghurst for being here with

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us today.
How the heck are you?

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Well, thank you Jessica for that
lovely introduction as well as I

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can be at this advanced age and
never eating properly as I

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should.
I understand that I cannot tell

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you.
This past week, I will admit I

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have eaten way too many
goldfish, which are like those

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tiny little cheddar crackers
that we have here that I know

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contain way too much glyphosate.
But it's it's just what it is

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for me this week.
I'm trying to eat healthy

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outside of the handfuls of
glyphosate written grain that

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I'm eating in between.
Our grandson has been around and

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my darling wife who who also
cooks lots of lovely food and I

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eat way too much of it.
She has bought him these lovely

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chocolate things and sweeties
and and of course at the end of

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the day when they just feel like
something sweet they are far too

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big a temptation.
But anyway, here I am still

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going more or less and happy to
answer any questions you might

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have.
Somebody may have, if you're

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watching the video, noticed one
of my cats kind of peeking and

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her name is Samantha.
She might be kind of, she might

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peek around every once in a
while.

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She's I call her Sis or Sissy.
She's 17 years young, but she's

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not doing too great right now.
I think I actually told somebody

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recently, it happened so, so
quickly, almost overnight.

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And I was like, you know what?
But I think that's the best way.

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Like, you know, they live an
amazing life for so long and

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then when they do go downhill,
it it's, it's pretty quick.

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I think that's the best way for
for it to happen.

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So she's.
Going to do it.

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We've seen that so often with
their own animals.

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So one moment they're smiling
and happy, next minute they're

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heading off just to lay down
somewhere quietly and go away

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from us.
They no longer want to interact.

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They no no longer want to eat.
Yeah, it's a terrible time for

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us to a witness, but as you say,
it is the best way.

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They haven't suffered years of
being treated with drugs and

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tests and all that stuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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They know it's time and we have
to accept their decision.

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That's.
What I'm trying to do with her,

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but she in the meantime she's
getting to do whatever she

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wants, which often means walking
across my computer so.

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Of course.
So you are the father of raw

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feeding and that is the primary
reason why I wanted to have you

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on.
I like to bring different

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viewpoints on this podcast.
Most of my listeners are what we

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call 2.0 pet parents, which I
don't know, maybe Rodney Habib

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coined that, I'm not sure.
But they know enough to know

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they want to do better for their
pets.

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I am a huge raw feeding
advocate.

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I actually took your
Billinghurst Institute course,

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which was wonderful.
I, you know, in my messaging on

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social media, try to talk about
fresh food as much as possible

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to include as many people as
possible.

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But I really do have like in my
heart, raw feeding is what I do

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believe is the best for our
pets.

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So I know having taken your
course and of course, you know,

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anybody that's rid read your
books knows that a little bit

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about the history of how you
started this whole movement many

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years ago.
Can you just kind of briefly

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catch anybody up who may not
know the history of how you

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decided that this is how dogs
and cats should be eating?

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Well, it got Yeah, right.
It's it goes back a long way.

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I did agricultural science
before I did veterinary science

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where I learned about the
nutrition of farm animals and

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the fact that farmers want
healthy pets and most of the

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time that means healthy food and
the right food and, and all of

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that stuff.
But then I became, well, I, I

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didn't want to continue in that.
I really wanted to.

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I was out as a young man, 21
years old, doing something I

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could not do now.
We were, we, we didn't have a

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lot of money and I was living
out in the woods and all the

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bushes we say in Australia and
to feed ourselves and our

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families.
We were hunting a fair bit a

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lot, mainly rabbits, which were
pests at that time.

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So we were feeding ourselves and
our one dog.

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That and our one dog also would
eat all sorts of things, like we

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had young children at the time,
like baby poo and all that

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stuff.
Now I didn't have a clue about

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feeding dogs, but this, this
lady, this young lady, Candy was

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her name.
She was a kelpie.

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She taught me everything.
Anyway, I moved from the Bush,

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eventually went back to study
veterinary science.

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Long story, but during that
process I thought I will learn

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really how to feed dogs and
cats.

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But unfortunately the bottom
line, even back then, and this

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was in the 1970s, feed a
complete and balanced commercial

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pet food and everything will be
fine.

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We were taught that this is what
you have to tell your clients.

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Now I'd never done that.
So when I became a young vet, I

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was really a little bit
confused.

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In my own mind, I told people
what we did and what the

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veterinary profession said they
ought to do.

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Anyway, Mike, the family
ultimately decided something I

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never wanted to do, which was to
go into shows breeding and

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showing dogs.
We had what do we have?

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We had Rottweilers.
That's the ones we were showing

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at the moment.
Oh, and poodles.

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Anyway, they decided that's what
we wanted to do and they said

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but since we're going to show
dogs we now have to feed them

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properly so they will be
absolutely magnificent.

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So we started to feed them what
we had been taught at Vets Bill

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and for the next two years our
dogs went downhill.

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Nothing major at first.
They the coats now started to

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look awful.
They started to smell.

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For the first time they were
actually getting wormy and had

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an external parasite.
Now we've never had these

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problems before.
They had ear problems, we

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started to get reproductive
problems and some of our dogs

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reacted badly to vaccines.
So all of this was happening for

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the first time to my own dogs.
Now, I was studying veterinary

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science.
Sorry, I was studying

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acupuncture, already studied
veterinary science.

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I was studying acupuncture at
the time and met a lot of these

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really kooky people who were
into things like, well, they're,

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they're into herbs, they're into
Reiki, all sorts of stuff.

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And one of the ladies I met at
that told me about the fact that

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she was using raw food.
As she spoke about it, I

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realized this was what we had
always done and she was

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extolling the virtues of it.
Anyway, I went back to feeding

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my own dogs this way, and I
started to recommend it to

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clients.
Well, the changes I saw were

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incredible.
So then I started to research

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food.
One of the things I researched,

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just one of them, there were
many things I looked at,

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literature research.
One of the things I looked at

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was I looked at countries like
Australia over the years,

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Taiwan, China, New Zealand,
where raw food had recently been

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introduced.
Now these were epidemiological

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studies and I noted that from
the time those epidemic, the raw

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food was introduced, there was a
complete change in the disease

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pattern.
The diseases that were

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eliminated very quickly were
four very simple diseases of

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excess and deficiency.
The all meat diet for for dogs

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and the all fish diet for cats
and the all liver diet for cats.

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And without going to the
details, these all disappeared

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overnight.
And the pet food industry had

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hailed this as a wonderful
benefit to the pet owning public

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and to the animals.
But what happened over the next

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few years, and it took it
happened slowly.

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This commercial pet food.
This is an epidemiological study

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animals eating the commercial
pets with slowly begun to

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develop degenerative disease
processes, things they had never

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developed before it it this
inflammatory bowel disease,

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autoimmune disease, severe
arthritis, escalating kidney

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failure and escalating cancer.
Now this happens so slowly that

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the profession generally
accepted it as part as a normal

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part of the ageing process in
these countries and it's been

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accepted that way ever since.
But wherever this food was

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introduced, this followed the
same pattern that I saw with my

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own animals.
I never got to the degenerative

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disease process by the way,
because I stopped them.

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But this is how the the whole
thing.

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So back in those early days, I
thought, how do I tell anybody

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about this?
I actually, I went to a forum in

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Australia to tell my profession
what it was all about 0

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interest, just absolute silence.
I thought the only people I can

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tell are the general pet only
public.

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So I thought, well, I can't
write a scientific book.

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Nobody reads those.
I'll write a very simple book.

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So I wrote give your dog a bone.
And my actually my children at

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the time said, well, dad, that's
still far too long and

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complicated.
But anyway.

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But away it went and it has
gradually made a difference.

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But we still have a profession
now where they are still trained

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by the pet food companies, even
more so.

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And the pet food companies push
back even harder against raw

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food, and they still use those
same for problems of efficient

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deficiency and excess, to
persuade young vet students that

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raw food is dangerous,
unbalanced and should never be

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fed.
And they also, of course, use

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bacteria and bones as well.
So there's 33 things, bugs,

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bones and balance.
They're the things that they use

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to scare young vets who are very
captive minds and now become

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hardwired to become salespeople
for commercial pet food for the

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rest of their lives.
So that's a potted history of

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this whole situation, but I'm
pleased to say we now have

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things like a, a raw veterinary
society started in England by

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Nick Thompson and a huge
interest amongst a growing

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number of vets for raw food and
understanding that this is what

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our pets were actually designed
to use by evolution.

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And this is this is the point.
If you have a, for example, if

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you have a car, use the
manufacturer's spare parts, the

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the servicing schedule, the oil,
the fuel, all that stuff.

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If you use those, your car lasts
a long time.

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If you don't, your car breaks
down early.

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Same thing with our dogs and
cats.

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They're breaking down early
because we're putting in the

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wrong fuels, spare parts,
etcetera, etcetera.

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That's been my, I guess, the
passion of my life, apart from

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my family and also looking after
my clients.

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That's been the passion of my
life and the driving force

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that's kept me going.
And right now actually, I'm, I'm

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writing a revised version of
Give Your Dog a Banner.

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I think it's going to take me
some time because there's so

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much more to include now.
I love it.

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I can't wait for that.
I actually have two things to

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follow up on with what you just
said before we move on the 1st,

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I'm curious what your thoughts
are on this because of what I

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mean, what we have witnessed for
so long as pet parents and what

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you just said about
veterinarians being basically

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indoctrinated by big pet food
companies.

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Colgate Palmolive, which is
Hill's Pet Nutrition, just

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purchased a raw food company in
Australia.

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It isn't a raw food that I would
have liked to feed my dog

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because it was the one of those
here's some food and we added a

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premix to it kind of thing that
I don't love.

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But you know, they're seeing
these big pet food companies.

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I think they're seeing that raw
feeding isn't going anywhere.

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They're either going to have to
get on the bandwagon or just

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push harder in our marketing
against it.

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And I'm just so curious to see
how what they're going to have

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to tell veterinarians is going
to change over time when they're

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now purchasing a raw food pet
company to, I assume, get in the

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market.
I don't know.

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Are you able to say what that
raw pet food company is I I'm

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not aware of?
I'm 100 I think.

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OK, OK.
That would account for the

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00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:54,800
enormous amount of advertising
being done by this particular

227
00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,480
company.
I said.

228
00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,280
I I've watched it and I thought,
my goodness, how can this

229
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,200
company afford such an enormous
level of advertising?

230
00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,800
Now I know that I have a lot of
thoughts about this, but I'm not

231
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,480
going to say too much because I
can't speak about a specific

232
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,480
company for fear obviously, of
litigation.

233
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:14,720
So I'm.
Not going to change it.

234
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,440
Yeah, Any specific company?
But yes, I don't know what

235
00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,240
they're going to tell vets.
Maybe they won't reveal the fact

236
00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:21,920
that they actually own this.
I don't know.

237
00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,200
Vets may not realize that they
own it.

238
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,720
I it'll be interesting.
Now that you've told me that, I

239
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,160
will watch this space with
interest.

240
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:35,280
Yeah, well, and I've talked to
some of my colleagues in the

241
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:40,960
industry and I'm like, you know,
so many, not all, as you said,

242
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,000
there are plenty of, or there
are a growing number of

243
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,160
veterinarians who are interested
in raw feeding.

244
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:50,000
But the ones who are really
indoctrinated into you have to

245
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,440
feed this bag of food or your
pet is going to die.

246
00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:54,280
Like, I don't, I can't tell you
how many times.

247
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:57,840
I mean, it's been told to me by
a veterinarian that you're going

248
00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:59,760
to kill your pet if you don't
feed this food.

249
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,720
And it's, it's almost, I was
like, are you, are you a

250
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,320
hypocrite now?
Like what do you even tell?

251
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:11,680
You, I don't know this well,
it's really not advertised as

252
00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:13,360
raw food.
It doesn't even look like raw

253
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,680
food.
Doesn't it comes out as a kid?

254
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,560
Does it?
And the advertising?

255
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,400
Log I thought when I looked up.
Well, the one I saw.

256
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:31,800
Oh, so yes, the one that I, OK,
I had very early on in the, I

257
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,160
had been sent some samples and
it was a kibble type thing.

258
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,760
But you're right, it's a log.
And I don't even know whether

259
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:40,840
it's cooked.
I don't know.

260
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:42,920
I don't know.
All I know is that there is a

261
00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,600
young lady who says she's a
veterinarian.

262
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,440
I suspect.
Well, she may be, I don't know

263
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,000
if she's a veterinarian or an
actor.

264
00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,480
And it's a single protein
source.

265
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,880
And I, I thought to myself,
well, that instantly tells me

266
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,720
you don't know anything about
raw feeding because we want

267
00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:01,200
variety and single protein
source would be when you're

268
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:05,080
trying to define an order to
find out what, what a dog or cat

269
00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,000
is allergic to.
That's that's so I thought, I

270
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,320
don't, I just, you know, there's
so many questions go through my

271
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,120
mind when I see that sort of
thing.

272
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,040
Yeah, but but everybody, I
suppose people believe, for

273
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,560
example, that mixing up protein,
some people believe is a bad

274
00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,160
thing.
And so you can't do it, I think.

275
00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,720
Do you ever witnessed a a dog?
Will a dog say, oh, no, I can't,

276
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,560
I can't eat that.
It's many different proteins at

277
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,400
once.
And they're crazy.

278
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,120
That has never happened in the
whole history of the evolution

279
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,560
of the dog.
Actually brings me to my next

280
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:42,920
question about how how you see
how like your thoughts on how

281
00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:48,600
raw feeding has evolved, because
I know like social media is at

282
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,080
the same time the best thing in
the world and the worst thing in

283
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,000
the world.
And there are there are

284
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:59,640
definitely people out there that
I feel are giving really, really

285
00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:04,320
bad information to people in the
name of raw feeding.

286
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:09,400
And so I'm curious your thoughts
on how this evolution of raw

287
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,320
feeding has taken place in your
lifetime?

288
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:14,080
Whenever I give you a dog a
bone.

289
00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:18,440
I presented it as exceedingly
simple, because it is.

290
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,000
I pointed out that no meal has
to be complete and balanced.

291
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,920
The whole diet has to be.
Or the whole not diet, let's

292
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,080
call it.
It's a food program.

293
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:34,720
The whole food program has to be
complete and balanced, no, And I

294
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,040
wrote and give your dog a bone.
No dog in the history or cat in

295
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:42,320
the history of the world has had
a food programme where every

296
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,960
meal was complete and balanced.
That is just absolutely not

297
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,200
necessary and an impossibility.
Completeness and balance is

298
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,240
actually a relationship between
the homeostatic mechanisms in a

299
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,760
dog or a cat and real food, the
food it was designed by

300
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,080
evolution to eat.
And in that relationship between

301
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:06,440
the food and the basic
physiological homeostatic

302
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:10,160
mechanisms, or just the way the
the dog being all cat functions,

303
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,119
let's put it that way for
simplicity's sake.

304
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,960
That relationship ensures that
the animal receives all the

305
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,440
nutrients it requires.
Now, the nutrients it requires

306
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,119
are not only the ones we know
about, but they're the ones we

307
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,160
don't know about and the ones we
have not yet recognized as

308
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,240
essential.
Now that's a vastly increased

309
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:36,400
number of nutrients beyond what
AFCO recommends and is put into

310
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,160
and insured to be in processed
pet foods and which, by the way,

311
00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:44,200
are not necessarily available.
And because the body stores

312
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,160
nutrients, I mean, for example,
we've been told that the B

313
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,520
vitamins are never stored.
Well, of course they are.

314
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,400
If they weren't, our
mitochondria would fail

315
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:53,960
instantly.
We'd all be dead.

316
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:58,080
There is so much misinformation,
scientific misinformation, half

317
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,840
truths out there.
And so our bodies store

318
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,800
nutrients to be used when those
foods don't contain them.

319
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,440
And we don't need this a
complete and balanced and our

320
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,520
animals don't either.
And I think we're going to find

321
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,040
and I think I have found over
time that attempting to provide

322
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:18,360
that at every meal is actually
more against health than for it.

323
00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:21,560
And, and we know that, for
example, we know that

324
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,440
intermittent fasting when you're
actually starving a nutrients is

325
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,080
actually a good thing because,
and we know the secret to long

326
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,400
life is maintaining our
mitochondria.

327
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,200
And this allows the mitochondria
to restore themselves.

328
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,320
So there's a period when we're
completely deficient of

329
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,440
nutrients.
It's called fasting or

330
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,160
intermittent fasting, whatever
you want to call it.

331
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,200
But what we're looking at here
is we have to look the

332
00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:48,360
admonition that each each meal
should be completely balanced is

333
00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:52,160
simply there because it has to
be legally to sell commercial

334
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,200
pet food.
That's the only reason for it.

335
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:59,160
It's not a biological necessity.
Now what we have today now is

336
00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:02,280
because I'll get back to your
question, what am I seeing in

337
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:06,120
raw feeding?
Well, we have gurus out in the

338
00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:10,680
world today who are making money
by selling complete and balanced

339
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:16,000
diets to pet parents who are
absolutely scared witless of the

340
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,720
feeding an unbalanced diet
because they're going to, as

341
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:20,320
their vet said, will kill their
dog.

342
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,960
I mean, there is a this happens
again and again and again.

343
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:27,520
A pet parent will go into the
vet, she said he or she is

344
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,600
feeding raw.
The vet said, oh, this is the

345
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:34,680
most healthiest dog I've ever
seen and asks a very logical

346
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,040
question.
What are you feeding it owner?

347
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,520
Cautiously or proudly for
whatever, depending on the

348
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,960
situation says, oh, we feed raw
and might start to go.

349
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:48,760
You can't do that.
You'll kill your dog.

350
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,120
And it's that's better just to
explain to us the most healthy

351
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:53,480
dog we've ever seen.
And that is that true story

352
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,160
happens again and again and
again.

353
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,720
But we have this, so we have
this population of pet parents

354
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,200
now who are absolutely scared,
who wanted to feed raw and do

355
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,400
the right thing.
I suspect it might be the right

356
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,040
way to feed the dog.
But they have this idea in their

357
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,000
head that every meal has to be
complete and balanced.

358
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,360
So we have gurus selling this
idea to them.

359
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,480
So they these people are always
dependent on their particular

360
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,120
guru and who will pay them
constantly to update their diets

361
00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:23,760
and everything else.
Whereas my whole aim was to set

362
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,120
people free.
You can do this.

363
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,920
It is beyond simple.
A 10 year old child can do it.

364
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:33,360
You can produce a diet far
better beyond far better than

365
00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:38,480
any PhD in veterinarian PhD with
advanced training and nutrition.

366
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,320
It's probably about 100 in the
world, and everybody thinks they

367
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:45,480
what not every, not everybody,
but the veterinary profession

368
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,040
thinks they are the only people
who can actually prepare dog

369
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,680
food or cat food because they're
the only people with this

370
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,000
advanced knowledge.
They don't have that advanced

371
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,960
knowledge.
Nobody has that advanced

372
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,400
knowledge.
The inherent wisdom of the food

373
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,960
itself and the relationship
between real food in

374
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,800
evolutionary balance and the
animal is what produces

375
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,240
completeness and balance and
depends on storage.

376
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,760
It depends on this relationship.
It depends on the presence of

377
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,600
one thing that our profession is
scared of, which is bacteria and

378
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,720
other and other creatures that
are part of the microbiome that

379
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,800
surrounds us, that's inside of
us, that covers us, that's in

380
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,640
the air we breathe, that as we
interact with our dogs and cats,

381
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,480
we share their microbiome and
ours with, with them.

382
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,560
Fear of bacteria and so on is
one of the things that again,

383
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:43,760
mitigates against raw feeding.
And so that's the situation we

384
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,640
have today.
We, we have a situation where

385
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,480
people are scared to feed raw
because they're going to get the

386
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,360
balance wrong and, and, and
maybe the eat reduced pathogens

387
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,480
and all that stuff.
And it puts many people off raw

388
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,600
feeding, which is really sad
because the whole idea is that

389
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,720
this is simple beyond, and
that's what my course is, is all

390
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:05,800
about showing people just how
simple it is to feed raw.

391
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,760
Once they get that they're set
free.

392
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,760
And this is, this is my whole
aim.

393
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,080
Set people free, give them the
power.

394
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,240
They understand, just like
feeding themselves.

395
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,160
Well, hopefully they feed
themselves properly, but like

396
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,360
they never set out to feed
themselves a complete and

397
00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:24,960
balanced diet at every meal.
And there's no reason that our

398
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,080
dog should be and cats should be
any different.

399
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,040
But they don't understand that
they it's just a commercial

400
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,280
requirement, a legal
requirement, not a biological

401
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:35,040
one.
Far from.

402
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:39,840
It well, it is for me like I I
hate so much so much.

403
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:44,960
There's so many foods out there
that achieve this quote UN quote

404
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,960
complete imbalance, which like
what even is that?

405
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,840
But they achieve it with a lot
of synthetic vitamins and

406
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,480
minerals, which I think are, you
know, more detrimental than

407
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,400
anything, especially over time
to to our pets.

408
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:05,720
But this idea of complete and
balanced, there's, you know,

409
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:10,480
AFCO, NRC, fatty F, these
organizations who have said

410
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,080
these are the nutrients that
every dog needs, that every cat

411
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,080
needs in these amounts every
single day.

412
00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:24,120
And it's, it's, it's mind
blowing to me how we even got

413
00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:26,600
there.
I I guess just for what what you

414
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,720
said, to be able to put a food
on the market to say you can

415
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,760
feed this to your pet every day
for the rest of their life and

416
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,280
they're not going to die
basically.

417
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:38,240
Well, you have to ask yourself,
when you go into a

418
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,320
veterinarian's waiting room and
all these animals are eating

419
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,000
processed pet foods and they've
all got lining up with these

420
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,600
problems that the vet is is
being asked to diagnose and

421
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,040
treat.
Were they actually safe when

422
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,080
they ate this food?
Is this truly the norm?

423
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,760
Well, as I said earlier, people,
the vets, veterinarians believe

424
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,840
this is just a normal part of
ageing.

425
00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:05,000
But of course it's not.
It's, it's a long way from it.

426
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:10,640
And I mean, I think, I guess a
hyperthyroidism in cats, for

427
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,360
example, that came into being
when people started feeding all

428
00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:18,040
this canned food with, with fish
in it.

429
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,560
But putting all that aside,
feeding dogs and cats, this is

430
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:28,920
my message is absurdly simple.
It really just requires you to

431
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,920
think about what what the animal
is.

432
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,440
Now for the, for example, the
cat so simple.

433
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,680
Basically it is an oblique
carnivore.

434
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:41,280
So pretty well a complete
animal, but not at every meal.

435
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,200
It doesn't have to be.
If you watch a cat eat, it won't

436
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:44,640
eat the complete animal at every
meal.

437
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,240
If it's a, if you've had ever
had barn cats or push cats as we

438
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,560
do in Australia out on farms,
they don't eat the complete rat

439
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,760
or mouse every time.
Sometimes they do, sometimes

440
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,720
they don't.
I'll pick and choose.

441
00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,200
But and the dog is not an
oblique carnivore.

442
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:01,880
The dog, there's a number of
things.

443
00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:03,720
One of those things is a
scavenger.

444
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,000
And as a scavenger it's
coprophagic.

445
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,200
For example, it eats poo faeces
droppings.

446
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:15,560
And we had poodles, sorry, we
yeah, they were poodles and they

447
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,400
were and the same household we
had cats and the poodles would

448
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,480
lay raid the litter tray for
these these beautiful Camembert

449
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,720
cheese in their eyes, which was
actually cat droppings.

450
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,720
So this is absolutely normal
because in fact, faeces is a

451
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,720
brilliant source of nutrition
for animals.

452
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,920
It's, it's living bodies of
living and dead bodies of

453
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,680
bacteria, high quality protein,
high quality.

454
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:46,160
It's got essential fatty acids
rich in B vitamins, vitamin K,

455
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,160
that's from a herbivore.
It's rich in fibre, a prebiotic,

456
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,160
plus the bacteria that go with
it on and on.

457
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,000
You can, you can see this and,
and people would ask me in the

458
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,360
early days, I've got a German
shepherd.

459
00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:00,440
I'm feeding it the best drives
dog food I can to make sure it

460
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,520
grows solidly so it doesn't
develop hip dysplasia and all

461
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:04,960
that.
But do you know what?

462
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,600
As soon as it passes its feces,
it turns around and eats that

463
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,520
and seems to prefer it over the
dry food.

464
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,200
And I pointed out, well, that's
because it's more nutritious

465
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,120
than the dry food for all the
reasons I just gave.

466
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:23,400
And and so this has been ever
thus animals who eat raw meaty

467
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:29,880
bones around about 60% of the
diet, 15% awful with say just at

468
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,520
the minimum liver, kidney and
heart.

469
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,080
Another 15% raw crushed
vegetables to imitate the the

470
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,440
gut contents.
Maybe some things that are

471
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:46,120
fermented like sauerkraut or
kimchi or or Kiefer or what I've

472
00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:49,680
recently become involved with is
beautiful product, Gussey's gut

473
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,360
where where the vegetables are
fermented and simple things to

474
00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:57,120
mimic some of the our foods.
We're not going to feed our dogs

475
00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:00,240
faeces, but of course they're
rich in essential fatty acids.

476
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,440
We might throw in some krill
oil, maybe some kelp and or

477
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,880
alfalfa, both of which are very
high in trace minerals.

478
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,520
And when we do do something as
simple as that, the food we feed

479
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:16,120
is far more in its relationship
to the homeostatic mechanisms of

480
00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:18,680
the animal, far more complete
and balanced than anything you

481
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,560
could ever feed produced by a
pet food company.

482
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,200
And lo and behold, they're much
healthier.

483
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,920
But you don't have to get
yourself tied up in knots, over

484
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,440
complete and balanced or any of
that stuff.

485
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,600
And you brought up Gussie's cut.
I was going to bring up I, I

486
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,400
mean, I've had Rob on a couple
of Times Now.

487
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,440
I think it's a wonderful
product.

488
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:45,440
I think incorporating fermented
foods is incredible for the gut

489
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,960
microbiome.
It may not be, may not be very

490
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,800
easy for a lot of people to do,
which is why Gussie's got kind

491
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,160
of makes it easier for people.
To do.

492
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:59,800
So what what do you think are
because I one of the things that

493
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:04,120
we have found, I say we as a
community, not me specifically,

494
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:08,360
a lot of today's raw fed dogs,
which we've kind of talked a

495
00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:11,160
little bit about, you know, the
evolution of raw feeding.

496
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:16,600
And I think generally speaking,
a lot of people, we think

497
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,720
pharmaceutically, we think big
pet food.

498
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:24,720
We think in these terms that
we've just been indoctrinated

499
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,360
with through marketing for
decades and decades.

500
00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:32,600
So people with food specifically
think I find a food that works

501
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,520
for my dog, even if it's a raw
food, because they believe in it

502
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,960
and they don't change it.
They feed the same thing forever

503
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,080
and ever and ever.
And So what companies that are

504
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:49,040
out there testing microbiomes of
dogs have found is that today's

505
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,600
raw fed dogs in the United
States at least don't have the

506
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:58,000
diversity that other types of
dogs eating other things have.

507
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,000
And I think that is because
they're doing exactly what

508
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,880
they've been taught to do by big
pet food companies for so long.

509
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,360
And that's find what works and
don't change it.

510
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,600
And so incorporating something
like Gussie's gut can make a

511
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,400
huge difference in the
microbiome of it of a dog, even

512
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,960
if it's a raw fed dog.
So I'm wondering if you would

513
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,560
like to expand a little bit on
the importance of the microbiome

514
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,520
of a dog.
Sure.

515
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,400
There's a couple of elements to
what you've asked.

516
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,080
One is the difference between
the microbiome of some raw fed

517
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,440
dogs and other dogs eating
something unspecified, the

518
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:37,000
importance of adding say
fermented material and the

519
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,320
relationship between raw food
and the microbiome.

520
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,160
And what is the health of these
animals that have been fed the

521
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,960
single item diet.
I don't know the answers to much

522
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,560
to those questions.
They're the areas that that you

523
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,760
have to think about.
But the the most important area

524
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:55,120
is what is the health of these
animals that are even if they're

525
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,760
having a raw food, that's one
particular, I guess one

526
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,520
particular company.
Is that what you're talking

527
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,280
about that's producing raw food?
Yeah.

528
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:04,920
Is it?
Or.

529
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,560
One particular recipe.
I think people get stuck in

530
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,200
both.
I think people find a recipe

531
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,880
online or they pay somebody to
create a recipe and they stick

532
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:20,920
with it, or they find a company
or even a recipe from a company

533
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,400
and they just feed that for an
extended period of time.

534
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,720
Yeah, it would be interesting to
know what the health of these

535
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,400
animals is compared to say
drive, pet food animal.

536
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,920
And I don't know.
And the other thing we really

537
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:38,240
don't have a handle on is what
constitutes a healthy microbiome

538
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:43,480
that that is, that is beyond
complex to understand because

539
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,440
the microbiome is very much a
relationship.

540
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,560
Well, it very much depends on
what you're being fed or what

541
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,200
the animals being fed, because
the microbiome changes

542
00:30:55,200 --> 00:31:01,280
constantly in response to the
food, because bacteria, if if

543
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,000
you're feeding a food that
favors one particular type of

544
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,920
bacteria or or a group of
bacteria, then that's what's

545
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,680
going to be predominant in your
microbiome.

546
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:15,120
Now whether that is a healthier
microbiome on that food for in

547
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,800
terms because we know that the
microbiome is involved in

548
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,320
digestion, it's involved in
immunity, it's involved in

549
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,960
mental health, it has this huge
effect.

550
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:30,360
Now we don't know whether this
group of bacteria is better than

551
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,200
that group of bacteria is better
than that group of bacteria.

552
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,800
We do know that I know that
animals fed raw are, are better

553
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:44,560
off than animals fed with
processed pet food beyond, but

554
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,120
it takes a long time for that
difference is never actually

555
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,600
noted this this group of raw
foods or this group of raw foods

556
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,480
is going to produce different
microbiome.

557
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,920
But will that microbiome in
response to these foods produce

558
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,320
better outcomes in terms of
mental health and so on.

559
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,440
So this is, is a whole area of
exploration that we don't really

560
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,240
know the answer to.
We can, we can document that

561
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,640
there's a difference, but then
we have to correlate those

562
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,560
differences with the outcomes in
the animal.

563
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,280
And I don't know that we've,
we've got those answers yet.

564
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:23,320
We can speculate on them.
So what I do accept is the

565
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,400
probability that when we feed
and, and we're watching this

566
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,200
actually happen to animals.
Therefore, it's more than a

567
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,880
probability if you feed
something like some of the

568
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,720
products that that Rob is now
producing, whichever they are,

569
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,800
over time, the outcomes in the
animals improves.

570
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:42,720
And this is no matter what
they're eating.

571
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,320
Why does it improve?
Well, they're they're they're

572
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,160
big questions.
But the fact that it does just

573
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,480
illustrates the importance of
feeding food that mimics the

574
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:58,280
evolutionary situation.
And the other thing is that take

575
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,560
humans, for example.
Humans living in different

576
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,840
climates around the world eat
different foods, but their

577
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,480
health depends upon them eating
a broad range of the foods,

578
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,600
local foods in season that have
been there and and been

579
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,240
nourishing that that particular
population for a long time.

580
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:22,560
So for example, the Inuits in
the frozen N, they are very be a

581
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,480
ketogenic diet.
I suspect very, very much a

582
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,920
ketogenic may maybe not because
there's still a fair bit of

583
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:29,720
protein, but there's a lot of
fat in it.

584
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,720
I would think that would be a
fairly pretty well a ketogenic

585
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:37,320
diet, but very high in fat,
moderately high in protein, very

586
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,960
low, almost 0 carbs.
Now those people transferred to

587
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,640
the Western diet rapidly
developed cardiovascular disease

588
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,400
rapidly because their bodies
have been changed to eat a

589
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,920
different sort of food.
But keeping in mind they would

590
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,920
probably do, but we don't really
know if they transferred to a

591
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,040
healthy, say, tropical food.
If they were transferred to the

592
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:00,400
tropics.
I don't know whether that's ever

593
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,320
been done or looked at, but
because what we find is that

594
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,719
people who just eat raw or or
Whole Foods, not necessarily

595
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,679
raw, but a lot of raw foods and
Whole Foods in season and local

596
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,239
are generally well, far
healthier than somebody being

597
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,440
fed the standard American.
We could put SAD diet, the SAD

598
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,320
diet, standard American or
Standard Australian diet,

599
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:27,600
whatever you like, causes so
much ill health and we can all

600
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,040
attest to that even even over
brief periods of time.

601
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,600
So it's not the same.
It's not the same set of foods

602
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,159
that any animal eats.
I mean, the humans and the dogs,

603
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:40,880
for example, they, they coexist
together because we're so

604
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,000
adaptable.
We can move to a different

605
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,000
climate, eat the foods of that
area and be healthy, move to

606
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,960
another climate and still be
healthy.

607
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,719
Different set of foods, probably
a different microbiome, but

608
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:57,640
still functioning to create
immunity, good immunity, good

609
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,480
digestion and good mental
health.

610
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:06,320
It's, it's a huge, this is
something that we, we may never

611
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,520
figure out because this is
something that's been honed over

612
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,120
millions of years by evolution
or billions of years actually

613
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,520
starting way back in the
primordial is, if I can put it

614
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,840
that way, with organisms that
were not, they're called what

615
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,520
they were called prokaryotes.
And these these prokaryotes were

616
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,280
organisms that didn't have
mitochondria.

617
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,560
They remained single cells.
In fact, they remained immortal.

618
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:34,200
And it wasn't until one of these
was an Archaea was as as a

619
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:40,360
prokaryote had a, an Organism
that was a parasite invaded and

620
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,280
then instead of the parasite
becoming its enemy, became its

621
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,560
friend.
No, it was about over about a a

622
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,080
billion years they formed this
relationship, which then allowed

623
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,320
these modern cells that could
form multicellular animals to

624
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,840
form so-called eukaryotes
because those organisms that

625
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,240
were parasites became the
mitochondria of today.

626
00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:07,880
And we have this relationship,
but all of these things that

627
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:13,600
allow us to function so
brilliantly have taken literally

628
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,640
billions of years to evolve and
and for us to understand that we

629
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,640
don't have the computing power
to even begin to understand it.

630
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,920
And to simplistically then say I
can produce a dog for this

631
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,600
complete and balanced with X
number of nutrients.

632
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,200
And that's it.
That it is so sublimely ignorant

633
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:35,080
of real science.
I appreciate that viewpoint so

634
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:39,120
much from where where you
started out saying that, but

635
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,080
what is the health outcome of
these dogs?

636
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:47,440
Like that ultimately is the most
important data point that

637
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:52,520
oftentimes is being overlooked
in the name of look at this cool

638
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,680
new thing we figured out or like
that we want to talk about

639
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,760
because gut health is the the
thing that everybody's talking

640
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,000
about now is, you know, how
healthy is your pet's gut,

641
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:04,840
which, which.
We just discovered.

642
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,120
Yeah.
I mean, which isn't a bad

643
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:15,040
conversation to be having, but
as you said, like, OK, at the

644
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,000
end of the day, what is the
health outcome of that animal?

645
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,160
That is the most important data
point.

646
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:24,520
So I appreciate that very much.
I would like to switch gears

647
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,920
just a little bit back to raw
feeding and your experience in

648
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,160
raw feeding because you have a
new puppy.

649
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:36,600
And one of the things that I see
with a lot of people in the

650
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:42,920
space I occupy on social media
saying that, OK, it is just more

651
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:47,520
difficult to feed a puppy.
We have to be more precise while

652
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,920
they're in their puppy stages,
feed them a commercial complete

653
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,640
and balanced.
And then once they get closer to

654
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,120
adult, then we can transition
them into, you know, a DIY raw.

655
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:02,520
And I'm, I would be willing to
bet anything your answer to that

656
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,160
is no, it's not that hard.
It's not that complicated.

657
00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:08,800
A puppy tells us what to do.
Yeah.

658
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,760
We have available, she's only a
little thing like she has grown

659
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,280
in the last three or four weeks.
We've had a probably double to

660
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,840
the weight, but I never think
about how much or what

661
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,480
particularly we're going to feed
because we have available what I

662
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,560
call bath patties now.
We also have a cat at the

663
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,080
moment.
Now the the particular ones,

664
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,680
when I make bath paddies,
they're always different,

665
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,800
depends on what I can find, but
they always contain some organ

666
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:37,720
meat, usually liver, kidney at
heart.

667
00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:42,160
At very minimum they might
contain some pork strips which

668
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:47,600
are very fatty, some beef, some
kangaroo, lots of chicken wings

669
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:53,160
which are a great source of bone
marrow, endless material, skin,

670
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:57,320
fat, bones, cartilage, chicken
eggs.

671
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,400
Throw in some kelp.
Some eggs, maybe some yogurt.

672
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,720
We can't get gussies gut in
Australia sadly, so I can't use

673
00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:09,440
that.
But that's so all of those

674
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,240
things go in and it changes
every time I make it.

675
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:14,920
Depending on what we can find,
often on the price of the

676
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,960
materials.
It's that and chicken wings and

677
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,480
maybe just some straight beef
mince, whatever, whatever.

678
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,000
We have a little bit of
leftovers to make her happy.

679
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,200
Some cheese, some as a trade
often.

680
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,840
Usually that some liver treats.
OK, so get up in the morning.

681
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:35,800
Look, there's some, there's some
bath here.

682
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,720
It's, it's, it's the, the Paddy
stuff.

683
00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:40,440
It's, it's thawed out.
Give her that for goodness

684
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,000
sakes.
She's absolutely ravenous.

685
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,200
I was going to give that to Kat.
Doesn't matter, give it to her.

686
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,080
So she walks it down.
I'm still hungry.

687
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:49,280
I have a piece of a chicken
wing.

688
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:50,560
I've got a joint of the chicken
wing.

689
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,240
So she walks that.
Down later.

690
00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:56,200
On in the day we might just give
her some milk and egg.

691
00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:01,080
So we've got a egg yolk.
I don't think the whites at this

692
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,160
day, it's just an egg yolk we've
mixed in with some milk.

693
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,280
And sometimes she hasn't and
sometimes not.

694
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:07,920
Gosh, the peers are looking a
bit sloppy.

695
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,560
I think it was those those liver
treats.

696
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,720
Ease back on that for a bit and
just fill her up more with some

697
00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:17,480
chicken wings for a few days.
It's you don't think about it or

698
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:18,960
I don't think about it
particularly.

699
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:23,480
We just do.
It's in our mind that yes, she

700
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:27,600
needs chicken wings, by the way,
or a raw meaty bone of that

701
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:29,720
nature from a young animal or a
chicken neck.

702
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,480
It's almost a completely
balanced food combined with what

703
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,920
goes on in the gut with the
microbiome because they produce

704
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,640
a lot of the B vitamins that
might not be there.

705
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,040
The vitamin cut, I'm not giving
her any Omega threes of any

706
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,800
kind.
She's growing beautifully.

707
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,520
Her brain is beautiful.
She's picking up the essential

708
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,520
fatty acids from the food she's
being fed.

709
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,720
She's picking up the protein
that she requires her.

710
00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:59,680
Body is just working.
With this food, raw food, whole

711
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,480
food, and when she's hungry and,
and she asks for more, we give

712
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,160
her a bit more probably.
Sometimes she gets overfed and

713
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:07,480
she just goes off and goes to
sleep.

714
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,000
Sometimes she still remains
hungry, but we just go out and

715
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,240
play.
It is just a natural organic

716
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:16,720
relationship between us.
The food that we know about that

717
00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:21,720
that contains the things that
dogs require and this puppy and.

718
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,160
That's the way you do.
It it really is simple.

719
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,320
We don't think about it because
it's it's just an idea in the

720
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,200
back of our heads.
Yes, she requires that Yes, she

721
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,840
requires that.
She doesn't require an all meat

722
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:34,840
diet.
She.

723
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,240
Doesn't require chicken.
And rice.

724
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:42,240
She requires something that very
closely mimics over time what an

725
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:44,280
animal a puppy in the wild might
have.

726
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,960
Think about puppies in the wild.
Once they've been released from

727
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,360
their mum's care they they
literally become real scavengers

728
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,080
and the bottom of the pecking
order and they have to fight and

729
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:55,720
scavenge for whatever they can
get.

730
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,760
So they they grow hung.
They grow up hungry and

731
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,680
relatively lean.
A lot of little bones and

732
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,120
leftover cartilage from stuff
that the adults said.

733
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,440
Oh well I'll eat the better pits
like the the nice protein and

734
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,160
they might have to scavenge the
gut contents.

735
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,960
Fermented food from from the
kilt, all that.

736
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,200
Sort of thing, but.
I mean, I, I put it down.

737
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,800
I, I, I work it out for people.
OK, so for a puppy, again, it's

738
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,920
around it, it's, it's the same
diet, 60% raw meaty bones, 15%

739
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:27,920
off or 15% veg, 10% those other
things that I've spoken of

740
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,200
listed out in, in the books and
in the course that you just saw.

741
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:38,280
And then it becomes natural,
once you understand these basic

742
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,360
principles, just to do that.
As long as you know that it

743
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,600
should be raw, it should.
Contain these.

744
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,520
Elements.
Overall, it's a no.

745
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,640
Brainer.
Dogs have eaten its way for

746
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,320
millions and millions of years.
Nobody, nothing has ever.

747
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,600
There's been nobody out there
with a white coat and a computer

748
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:02,760
with a spreadsheet saying, oh,
it's too much of that rabbit to

749
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:07,320
get that out of your life.
You know, doesn't happen as long

750
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,480
as you're feeding the real food
in approximate evolutionary

751
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,800
balance cannot go wrong.
You cannot.

752
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,160
So you mentioned.
That you're not adding omegas.

753
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:22,560
And that made me think about one
of the things.

754
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,640
That.
I'm sorry but.

755
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,480
But you don't have to if you
Yeah, if you're thinking a broad

756
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:32,360
range of foods.
It made me think about.

757
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:40,040
One of the things that my peers
and I often talk about where a

758
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,520
lot of the food in the US and I
would imagine it's pretty

759
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:46,600
similar in Australia, you know?
Developed.

760
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,600
Countries.
Industrialized countries A lot.

761
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:56,920
Of the food.
In our food supply is not as

762
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:03,560
nutritional as it used to be
even eighty, 100 years ago and

763
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:04,400
so.
When?

764
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:08,840
When we do look at
spreadsheeting or using, you

765
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:14,360
know, calculators to try to get
to these AFCO requirements, we

766
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:19,360
find that sourcing higher
quality foods, especially animal

767
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:23,320
foods and then local produce
where it's not, you know,

768
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:28,240
traveling forever and and the
nutrition is degrading through

769
00:44:28,240 --> 00:44:32,800
all of this travel.
We can get much better numbers

770
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,840
by feeding higher.
What sort of numbers you're

771
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:37,720
talking?
About what sort of else the

772
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,240
numbers like if we're trying?
To meet like AFCO requirements

773
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:43,240
type things but you get better
numbers that.

774
00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:47,160
Equilibrate to AFCO requirements
right which we.

775
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,640
Already established isn't great,
but.

776
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,640
But it I mean.
They they are irrelevant.

777
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,880
They are 100% irrelevant to raw
feeding so long as you're

778
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,920
feeding the right foods in
evolutionary balance, because

779
00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:07,040
the body will pick and take out
a real food what it requires.

780
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,960
So even if that real food has
lower levels of what it

781
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,200
requires, that animal could not
have survived if it didn't have

782
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,800
those elements already within
the food.

783
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,760
OK, Yeah.
So they're there in a.

784
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:25,920
Form that interacts precisely.
It's a absolute lock and key

785
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,080
mechanism with what that animal
requires.

786
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,480
The only caveat to that is if
this food that that that is

787
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:36,920
maybe supermarket grade and not
biodynamic organic.

788
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:42,400
If that food has high levels of
some form of toxin, that's where

789
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,960
the problem lies.
Not with the quality of the food

790
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:47,600
because the dog will take
whatever.

791
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,000
That's my experience.
You can use, you can use

792
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:55,160
supermarket food so long as it
it's a healthy origin.

793
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:59,480
So what we're really concerned
with is not so much the

794
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,880
nutritional balance inherent in
that food.

795
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,120
That animal could not have
survived.

796
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,360
It didn't have those elements
within it.

797
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,280
It wouldn't.
It couldn't grow up and be a

798
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:13,120
healthy animal for the farmer,
but the animal.

799
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:15,000
But so long as.
It's raw and whole.

800
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:19,080
The the growing puppy or the
adult can take what it needs.

801
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:23,840
And that's so that's one reason
the puppies don't actually need

802
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,840
anything, but particularly
different to adult dogs with the

803
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,720
one exception that they actually
require more bones than adult

804
00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:34,960
dog, adult dogs and get away
with far less bone in their diet

805
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,080
than the young pup because
they're not forming their bones.

806
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,640
They're just simply replacing
what what's required.

807
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:44,720
So they don't need, they don't
even need that particular ratio

808
00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:49,000
between calcium and phosphorus.
I mean, that ratio, all of that

809
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,800
is absolutely swept aside when
you feed plenty of raw meaty

810
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:54,400
bones, no matter what age group
you're in.

811
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,040
Just don't feed a deficient
level of bones to a young pup.

812
00:46:59,240 --> 00:47:03,400
This is this is what's missing
the actual real science of

813
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:07,680
understanding the biology of
what is actually going on with

814
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:11,160
our animals.
They don't require AFCO levels,

815
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,720
they just require real food.
Because if you feed real food in

816
00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:19,080
an evolutionary balance, they
will get everything they need,

817
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:23,360
even if it's food that is of
today's standard, which is of a

818
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,320
lesser standard.
But I would then suggest just to

819
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,280
just to be sure, it shouldn't
feed a bit of extra kelp and or

820
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,240
alfalfa, which is loosen in
Australia the the meal.

821
00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:36,800
Because loosen or alfalfa is a
plant that sends its roots down

822
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,040
about 40 feet into the deep
subsoil where it's never been

823
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:44,080
eroded and picks up all those
micronutrients.

824
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,960
And of course the kelp is in the
sea.

825
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,600
All those micronutrients are
present and the kelp has them in

826
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:56,400
it and we don't even have a clue
as to how the micronutrients

827
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:57,840
work.
I, I could Bill, I can tell you

828
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,040
one piece of research.
Well, it was actually a person

829
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,720
who spent their whole life on
this looking at the role of

830
00:48:03,720 --> 00:48:08,400
micronutrients and in prevention
and treatment of cancer.

831
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:13,840
So again, we have no idea.
But if we feed real food in

832
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:18,280
approximate evolutionary
balance, we don't have to think

833
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,080
about anything.
All all that rest all the rest

834
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,680
of that.
If if you're excuse the

835
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,600
expression is absolute bullshit.
So it's it's more.

836
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:31,920
Important you think, to be
avoiding the herbicides and

837
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:35,240
pesticides and toxins?
Yes, that's.

838
00:48:35,240 --> 00:48:38,800
Where the problem lies, as long
as you're feeding real food and

839
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,000
evolutionary balance,
nutritional balance is

840
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:47,000
absolutely fine.
Unless unless you had some

841
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,520
reason to believe that there was
something deficient.

842
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:55,280
Now in some areas OK in New
Zealand and this has overcome

843
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,320
anyway because they supplement
the food and livestock.

844
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,640
But there was in some areas that
have has a selenium deficiency

845
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:03,560
and they got.
What's called white muscle?

846
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,480
Disease.
Well, then they started making

847
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:10,000
sure that selenium was out of
food and so, but of course those

848
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,640
animals never reached the market
with white muscle disease.

849
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,960
They died in parts.
Of China.

850
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,960
We have so-called cretins
because an absolute deficiency

851
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:24,360
of iodine, OK.
The food that you feed to.

852
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,640
Your dogs and cats today could
not have got where it is on a

853
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,960
deficient diet and deficient
diet, for example, that the

854
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:35,480
chickens that we eat again and
again, I have to emphasize that

855
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:39,080
this these things are not a
problem when you feed real food

856
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:43,320
in evolutionary balance and
maybe throw in some kilk and or

857
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:48,560
alfalfa or gluten milk and some
some some some sort of probiotic

858
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:53,080
and or fermented food that's.
That's what you need to do.

859
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:57,320
But it is really a very very
simple SO one.

860
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,120
One more little topic if you
don't mind, if you have the

861
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,680
time.
I find more often than not it is

862
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:07,920
some sort of traumatic.
Incident with a.

863
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:13,560
Pet that leads people down the
road of finding feeding real

864
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,680
food to their pets.
So oftentimes they're in a

865
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:21,680
situation where their pet has
been diagnosed with some disease

866
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:27,240
disorder and their vet is of
course recommending a veterinary

867
00:50:27,240 --> 00:50:32,280
or prescription pet food.
And this pet parent is now like,

868
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:37,240
but I, they're then scared.
They are finding fresh feeding

869
00:50:37,240 --> 00:50:41,000
and they're like, I want to do
this, but they're scared because

870
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,360
as we talked about earlier,
their veterinarian is saying

871
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,960
this is what you have to feed
your pet now, like you can't.

872
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,080
So I, I mean, I, I feel like I
know what you're going to say,

873
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,280
but I just want to address it
for anybody who is out there,

874
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,520
what your thoughts are around
that topic.

875
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:57,560
It's very difficult to put a
figure on it, but.

876
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,160
Let's say it's 80 or 90% of
animals with whatever disease

877
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,640
you care to mention and and it
quite often at a quite advanced

878
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:09,840
stage, shift them to real food
and over a period of months it

879
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:14,320
just quietly disappears.
Now occasionally there are some

880
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:19,640
diseases that actually require
quite a severe modification of

881
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:24,760
even the raw food diet and that
may include any of these things

882
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:29,160
like euro lifts.
So you might need to fit if the

883
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:34,960
euro lift, which is a bladder
stone develops in say a diet

884
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,760
with a acid pH and you have to
do something to make it more

885
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:43,560
alkaline and also remove any
elements that might actually

886
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,960
contribute to the high level of
stone forming elements within

887
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:49,840
that diet.
And that's only maybe the other.

888
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,280
One other very common example is
kidney failure.

889
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:54,960
Now in.
Kidney failure.

890
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:56,720
We have a.
Situation where the kidneys,

891
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:02,400
because the nephrons, the
glomeruli are no longer around

892
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:07,040
about 75 to 85% or even higher
functional, it's not able to

893
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:11,200
carry out a lot of the IT.
It can't get rid of nitrogenous

894
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:16,920
waste which come from protein.
So you have to lower the protein

895
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,600
or do something to get rid of
those nitrogenous waste.

896
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:23,920
Now the simple basis of the
protein, oh sorry, the kidney

897
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,280
failure diet that I've been
using for years is simply to

898
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:31,480
increase the amount of low
glycemic index vegetable

899
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:37,000
material in the diet.
So you find this is just a

900
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:41,200
matter of increasing fibre.
From local.

901
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:45,480
Well it doesn't have to be, but
ideally local and seasonal low

902
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:48,680
glycemic index foods, so not
starchy foods.

903
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,480
Basically anything that's
vegetable.

904
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:56,800
Highly coloured, preferably
above ground basically, although

905
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,720
it can include a bit of carrots.
But basically above ground, low

906
00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:02,640
glycemic index, non starchy
foods.

907
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:05,760
Put through a juice, then
recombine the juice in the pulp.

908
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:09,520
Now the vegetables have a
cellulose cell wall, so the dog

909
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:13,080
cannot digest them.
But the bacteria once you

910
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:18,640
release that cellulose cell well
to be available to the bacteria

911
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:22,040
is now becomes a prebiotic which
is fermented.

912
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:25,160
All the contents of the cell,
the enzymes, the proteins,

913
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,360
vitamins, everything now becomes
available for digestion to the

914
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:30,800
animal.
This is the only way that

915
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,640
vegetables can become truly
useful to a dog and all from the

916
00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:39,400
as fermented the way the animals
in the room and of an animal and

917
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:43,520
we're trying to mimic that.
The way we mimic that is to not

918
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,760
so much the fermentation, but
the breaking down by a herbivore

919
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,440
is to put it through a juicer.
This is this was all described

920
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,800
in Gibby dog a bone years ago
put it through a juicer,

921
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,840
recombine the juice in the pulp.
Now what happens all that

922
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:59,080
wonderful juice is fully
nutritious, full of

923
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:01,200
phytochemicals, vitamins,
whatever.

924
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:02,680
We don't really know.
It doesn't matter.

925
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:05,760
And you have the fibre.
The fibre gets to the large

926
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:09,480
bowel and is broken down by the
bacteria into short chain fatty

927
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,120
acids which now feed those
bacteria.

928
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:17,640
Those bacteria start to grow but
they need a source of nitrogen

929
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,760
to produce their own protein.
Where do they get it from?

930
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,240
Well, that's those short chain
fatty acids have increased the

931
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:26,680
thickness of the bowel wall.
They've increased the blood

932
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:28,200
vessels coming to that bowel
wall.

933
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:32,840
In other words, they've started
to nourish the body and those

934
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:37,000
bacteria take the nitrogenous
wastes out of that blood and

935
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:41,880
convert it to their own protein.
So we have a situation with a

936
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:46,720
large bowel, at least in terms
of a limiting eliminating

937
00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:51,120
nitrogenous wastes from the body
is acting like a third kidney.

938
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:55,360
And this is this is the simple
physiological basis of the

939
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,880
kidney diet.
And you can titrate this level

940
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:00,520
of vegetables that you put in
the diet.

941
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:02,840
In other words, if you are
overdone chemistry, you know,

942
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,440
titration is a matter of adding
something, something else until

943
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,880
you get a specific change.
So the specific change we're

944
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:13,560
looking for is a reduction in
things like SDMABUN creatinine

945
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:18,520
as measurements that we would
make as you increase the level

946
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:21,760
of vegetable material in the
diet to the required level.

947
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:25,400
Now, because you're feeding real
food, you can reduce that

948
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:30,200
protein quite substantially in
the food because all of the food

949
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:33,200
you're feeding is high in
essential amino acids.

950
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,520
So you so this whole thing just
works together beautifully.

951
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:41,200
It produces a complete and
balanced diet that is actually

952
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:44,440
able to help eliminate the
nitrogenous waste from the

953
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:46,720
bloodstream and bypass the
kidneys.

954
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,680
But at the same time, something
else is happening because you're

955
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:51,920
feeding real food.
And most of these dogs were

956
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:56,160
previously on a kidney, kidney
destroying commercial diet,

957
00:55:56,160 --> 00:56:00,160
which is what it what it is.
The body now starts to repair.

958
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:06,640
And over time, it actually gets
better in many ways, including

959
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:13,040
kidney function over time.
Again, real food is very

960
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:15,040
restorative.
Oops.

961
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:20,200
OK, so Doctor Billinghurst.
Lost his Internet connection but

962
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,040
we had such a great chat.
I want to say thank you to him

963
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,080
for being here, for giving me
his time.

964
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:30,360
It was, it was amazing to get to
talk to Doctor B all about raw

965
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:34,600
feeding for dogs and cats and
getting into the nitty gritty of

966
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:39,560
some of the more asked
questions, especially where raw

967
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:42,720
feeding is concerned.
If you haven't looked into

968
00:56:42,720 --> 00:56:46,200
Billinghurst, the Billinghurst
Institute, I will make sure that

969
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:50,640
that link is in the show notes.
I took the pet professional

970
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,040
course and there's also a pet
parent course.

971
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:56,720
I think one of the things that I
want to say about it is that

972
00:56:57,240 --> 00:57:00,880
after taking other certification
courses, after getting other

973
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:05,480
nutrition certifications, I felt
overwhelmed.

974
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:07,840
Not in a sense that I couldn't
do it.

975
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,960
I know I'm a very capable
person, but in a sense that

976
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:15,080
like, gosh, why does it have to
be so hard to feed our dogs and

977
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:17,240
cats?
And it isn't and it shouldn't

978
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:20,400
be.
And that's the one thing above

979
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:24,000
all else that Doctor
Billinghurst gave me through the

980
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:28,400
Billinghurst Institute is that
it is not, and it should not be

981
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:30,560
difficult to feed our dogs and
cats.

982
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,960
A little more so for cats than
dogs, being that cats are

983
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:38,280
obligate carnivores.
But the reality is that, and,

984
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:41,080
and I know I've said this
before, I may have even said it

985
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:47,680
earlier in the episode, the most
research into nutrition has been

986
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:51,120
done on humans, dogs and cats.
The sickest animals on the

987
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:53,360
planet are humans, dogs and
cats.

988
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:56,040
It should.
Not be as hard as we're.

989
00:57:56,040 --> 00:58:00,680
Making it, we are, we are
harming our pets and ourselves

990
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:04,240
sometimes with how hard we're
making this when it should not

991
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:06,280
be hard.
All we have to do, my cat is

992
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:11,560
going to interrupt me.
All we need to do is look at how

993
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:16,200
these animals eat in the wild.
And yes, can we improve on that?

994
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:20,920
Absolutely, and we should.
But it is not the end all be all

995
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:22,600
we can.
Sorry my cat.

996
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:25,240
If you're watching the video,
you're seeing my my cat

997
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,920
continually try to walk on my
computer screen.

998
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:32,680
But it should not be difficult.
It can and should be easy.

999
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:36,400
Granted, if your dog or cat is
sick, there are a lot of other

1000
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:38,200
things that we do need to take
into account.

1001
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:42,320
Which is why I still recommend
working with a nutritionist.

1002
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:44,480
Doesn't have to be me, can be
me.

1003
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:47,520
I'm happy to help if I have the
bandwidth at the time that you

1004
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:49,360
need that you're listening to
this and need help.

1005
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:53,160
But anyway, I will put a link in
the in the show notes to

1006
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:56,600
Billinghurst Institute.
There is a pet parent course.

1007
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,080
You don't necessarily have to
take the pet professional

1008
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,880
course.
It's like they keep adding to

1009
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:03,440
it.
It's like I don't even know what

1010
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,160
it's at now, like 50 hours of
video.

1011
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:07,920
It's a lot, but it is so, so
beneficial.

1012
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:10,120
The pet parent course is
obviously not going to be as

1013
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:13,400
much, but still get you.
I think where you need to go as

1014
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,920
far as like if you are doing a
DIY raw especially and you're

1015
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:20,800
just feeling really overwhelmed,
this can help alleviate the

1016
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:23,400
overwhelm for you.
Of course, Dr. Billinghurst is

1017
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:25,040
known as the father of raw
feeding.

1018
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:28,760
I just, I'm, I'm so excited for
what he has coming up next.

1019
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:32,640
I want to give him another thank
you and thank you the pet

1020
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:36,040
parents listening today.
I appreciate you for being here.

1021
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:38,000
Please reach out to me on
Instagram if you have any

1022
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:41,320
comments or questions.
I am always happy to talk to you

1023
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:44,520
and answer you as best I can.
Obviously I'm only one person,

1024
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:47,880
but I'm here.
For you guys, so.

1025
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:50,680
With that, I will talk to you
soon.

1026
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:53,280
Please give your pets some extra
love from me and from Doctor

1027
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:55,920
Billinghurst this week and I
will talk to you later.