207. Identifying an Educator VS Influencer in the Holistic Pet Health Space with Raw Paw Adventures

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Welcome back, pet parent.
So today's episode is pretty

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cool.
I haven't done this before, but

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we're actually doing a podcast.
Swap.

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And if you're not familiar with
what that is, it means we

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recorded together and we're
listing it on both my podcast

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and her podcast.
And I think out of every episode

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I have ever done, this may
actually be one of the most

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important, which is saying a
lot.

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I realize that is saying a lot
because hopefully you continue

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to come back to the podcast and
continue to learn from all the

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incredible experts that I bring
to you, which obviously is why I

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do this.
But let so you, if you've been

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here a while, you probably
already know who Kara Hanrahan

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is.
She's been on the podcast a

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couple of times.
She's with Raw Paw Adventures,

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and her podcast is called Raw
Now.

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The reason why I think this
episode was the episode to do

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this with, to have it go live on
both my podcast feed and her

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podcast feed is because there's
a lot going on.

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Well, there's a lot.
Going on in the world.

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Obviously, but there's a lot
going on in the holistic pet

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health space lately.
And I hate using the word, the

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words misinformation and
disinformation, but there is a

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lot of that going on just within
the health community in general,

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especially like human health.
To me, it is entirely to

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politicized food, health,
nutrition, science.

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None of this should be
political, yet that's where we

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are in today's world.
It is all politicized.

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And so Kara and I have decided.
We did an episode on identifying

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an educator versus an
influencer, specifically in the

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healthy pet space, the holistic
pet space.

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And I think that this is just
such an important topic.

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It's an important conversation
to have because we have to.

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It's our responsibility.
It's an added responsibility for

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us to have to vet the people
that we listen to online and

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know who we choose to trust and
who we choose maybe to just be

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entertained by, right or not
listen to it all.

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It's it's a new landscape.
I mean, not new, new.

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Obviously we've had social media
for a while now, but we're

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figuring this out as humans.
And I'm not sitting here,

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neither is Kara saying like I'm
the expert.

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Like, in fact, as you listen to
this episode, you're going to

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understand why and how we feel
like we're providing the best

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content we possibly can to our
listeners.

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And in not saying that we're
experts with all of the, you

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know, degrees and certifications
that we have.

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And we have, we have different
degrees care.

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As a nurse who has transitioned
into functional medicine, my

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degree is my traditional
bachelor's is in psychology with

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a focus in animal behavior.
And but we have some of the same

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certifications moving forward as
far as the holistic pet health

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space is concerned.
And I think it's just a really

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important conversation for us to
have.

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So this intro is already way too
long.

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Thank you for being here with me
again.

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And make sure to check out the
Raw Remedies podcast if you have

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not.
Already done.

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So there we go.
Hello.

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Thank you guys so much for
joining us.

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By the way, this is I'm nervous.
Dining with Dinah said.

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This is a salacious topic.
I'm going with that word because

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it's sexy.
Salacious.

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But I think this is an important
enough topic that like for me, I

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was like, no, this is a no
brainer.

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We need to put this out for like
everybody to listen to.

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Yeah.
And influencer versus educator,

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specifically in the healthy pet
space.

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And I just want to, I know like
I just read through all of your

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notes, Cara.
And I just wanted to start out

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by saying that like, we're all
human and we all make mistakes.

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And I feel like it's our
responsibility in this life to

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learn and grow.
And so I'm never mad at anybody

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for learning and growing.
I can be disappointed,

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certainly, but like, yeah, I
think this is this is part of

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the human experience.
And I just kind of wanted to

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start out by saying that before
we.

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I agree.
So like everybody, obviously

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we're all human.
Well, I don't know.

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I barely consider myself an
Earthling.

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I think sometimes I'm from Mars.
But you know, it's, it's I kind

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of feel, and I said this the
other day to Angela Arlino.

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I was talking to Angie and I
said, if you're going to be an

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educator, you have to commit to
always being a lifelong student.

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The minute you stop learning is
the minute you stop growing.

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And that is when you need to
stop educating.

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And so I think my, my
frustration here is it's one

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thing to and for we might need
to like clarify for some people

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who are listening, but it's one
thing to think that you knew

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something was one way and then
to educate yourself and learn

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and grow and realize, oh gosh,
it actually was more like this

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or, oh, I had more to learn.
I didn't have the whole picture

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here.
Let me let me like kind of come

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out and say like, oh, I learned
more about this and I really

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grew in this area and I wanted
to let you guys know that, you

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know, we, I, I wasn't quite
there when I was talking about

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it last month, last year,
whatever.

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That's not what happened here.
Or, or we get new studies, we

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get new science and we expand,
right?

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Like that's right.
That happens a lot.

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I mean, even for you and me, for
sure.

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It's like, yes, look what we
just found out, right?

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Like, yeah.
Always new stuff coming on the

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market, always research is
happening and always new

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evidence is popping up, whether
that's anecdotal evidence or,

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you know, a peer reviewed
double-blind placebo study that

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was done in a laboratory
somewhere.

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But what we're just not super
easy to find.

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Well, yeah, I know it's who's
got the money for that.

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But what we're talking about
today is a popular influencer

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brand.
And I'm not going to drop names,

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but you know, they, they put out
this very long video and

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actually a small part of me
didn't even want to have this

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live or have this discussion
because I don't want to give

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them any more views.
I don't want to build their

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platform further.
And I have no doubt that some

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people listening, if they
haven't watched their video yet,

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they're probably going to go and
watch it.

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That's fine.
But we're going to do a little

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bit of a breakdown.
And it's kind of on my end, I

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think a little bit of rebuttals
about some of the things that

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they said and some of the way
they phrase things.

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And to be honest, in general, in
my opinion, almost gaslit the

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entire holistic pet community.
Yeah, it's like what it felt

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like.
Yeah.

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So, yeah, well, and I think
maybe it might be good to start

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with like what we what we see
differently an educator versus

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an influencer.
Like how, because I think

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influencer even I know there are
definitely people like Rachel

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Cucero who like I called her an
influencer one time and she was

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like, please don't.
I don't want to do that.

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Like that's not what I want to
be.

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And I get that.
And I think like influencer and

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content creator are seem
interchangeable.

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And I feel like to be an
educator, I don't think we talk

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about educators.
I think they're just lumped into

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influencer or content creator as
far as social media is

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concerned.
And I think we should be able to

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tell to tell the difference
because even in this very long

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video that we're talking about,
that we're discussing today, the

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Doctor Who should have been an
educator was very click baity

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was very extreme, was very.
And it's like, yeah, we don't

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agree with him either.
I don't know what.

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Yeah, that wasn't, that was an
interesting part of their video.

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And we'll get, we'll get to that
eventually when we're kind of

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talking about the different
stuff.

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But but you're right,
unfortunately people who should

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be educators sometimes turn into
influencers.

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And I don't think that might not
be in and of itself a bad thing

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because sometimes when you're
educating somebody, you are then

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influencing them to say like,
hey, this brand of food

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encompasses all of the things
that I've been educating you

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about and I recommend them or I
use them.

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You could check them out.
So perhaps they can go hand in

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hand.
But I think what's been

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happening, what I've been seeing
in our community lately is

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people who step into the space,
who have good intentions for the

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most part, without really
getting that kind of deeper

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breath of, of education and
knowledge about a topic.

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They see something, they get
excited about it, they jump on

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it and they're like, this is the
best thing since sliced cheese.

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Everybody needs to do it.
And and that's kind of where the

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the problem lies, I think.
Yeah, yeah.

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And I think also some of the
problem is in just how our

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society is today.
So a couple of things that I

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want to address about being a
content creator or an

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influencer.
It is not easy.

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It is a full time job and so you
have to make money somewhere,

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right?
Like you can't have a full time

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job, you can't have a fully
functioning medical practice or

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veterinary clinic or whatever it
may be and be really good at

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being an influencer or a content
creator.

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Like it's just.
You can try and do both and then

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you can be like me and give
yourself autoimmune thyroiditis.

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It's totally fine.
Right, but that's the thing,

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like it is a full time job.
So we have to kind of it goes

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both ways.
Like I also hate when people are

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like, I hate that you're selling
me something or I hate that

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you're recommending something.
I'm never going to follow you

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again, right, because they they
have to make a living too.

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So if you dedicate your time and
energy, which would have to be

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full time or close to it, to
educating people online, you

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have to have a way to make
income.

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And like, as long as you are
being up and up and like only

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recommending or selling products
that you actually do believe in

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and you're not just taking any
sponsorship that comes along.

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I know for me, like having been
in the space, even though I

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still can, like I'm, I'm a mic,
whatever a micro influencer is,

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right?
Like I'm small, but like I have

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turned down hundreds of people
asking me to promote their

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product or talk about their
product or I'll send you this

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product or I'll pay you to talk
about like I have turned down

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hundreds just in the past couple
of years because they don't

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align right, right.
So like if you are, if you're on

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the up and up and you're only.
So that is one thing.

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You have to be able to trust the
person you're following that

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they're not gonna just be
promoting whatever comes across

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their desk, right?
That's one thing.

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And I don't remember the second
part of what I was gonna say, so

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there we go.
That's OK.

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That's OK.
So as we mentioned, for people

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who are listening live, we're
gonna be posting this on our

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podcasts.
So yes, for future podcast

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listeners.
So for me, that's raw remedies,

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a raw remedies podcast for Jess,
that's the pet parenting reset.

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So for our podcasters, you're
going to hear us maybe have like

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a respond to a couple of
comments that are on the live.

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So the healthy Pet nutrition
commented and said, what's icky

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to me is that these influencers
took advantage of many people

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and brands and then turned
around and kind of gave them the

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middle finger, right?
And I agree, I think that was,

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it's actually one of the points
that they cover in their video.

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And then she also said, And to
say that there's no science

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behind the holistic modalities
upside down :) for me, upside

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down :) means bullshit.
Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, I agree.
And that was a big hot topic for

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me.
Sorry.

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My cat's probably about to knock
something over.

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That's OK.
Was that like they kept saying

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like, there's no science here,
There's no science here, And

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it's like, Oh my God, literally
the science of natural medicine

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and holistic medicine existed
before there was organized

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society.
Like, don't tell me that there's

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no science.
Right, right.

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Well, and I also think it's
important to say that like I,

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you and I, I feel like we're
both this way.

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I am very open to, I don't want
to live in an echo chamber.

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00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,160
If you disagree with me, I'm OK
with us having healthy

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00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,320
conversation and agreeing to
disagree.

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Like I'm totally OK with that.
And I also think even in this

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00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,560
video today or this podcast
today, like there are going to

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be things that maybe Cara and I
are not 100% in agreement with

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each other on.
And like that's OK too because

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we have different learned
experiences.

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00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:29,520
We have lived through different
things and she has an extensive

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00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:34,160
like human medical background
that I don't have.

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So we have very different
experiences and we may not 100%

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00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,400
agree.
And I think like, I think it's

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very healthy for us to still
have this conversation together

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00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,200
and bring it to you so that you
can see that like we don't

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00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,960
always have to be 100% in
agreement with each other to

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00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:55,960
still respect each other and not
gaslight each other and not.

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00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,840
I disagree with that.
OK, that's fine by me.

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00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,960
I'm just kidding.
So, OK, So yes, 100%, I actually

244
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,240
100% agree with that.
I don't disagree with that.

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00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:11,480
There's probably going to be a
few talking points that we maybe

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00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,000
are are not on the same page
about, and I think that's

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00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,440
totally fine.
And I think that we should kind

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00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,080
of dive in and just start
breaking some of this stuff

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00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:19,560
down.
Yeah.

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00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,600
Yeah, let's do it.
Yeah.

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00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,920
And so, so Dog taught she.
I just really quickly want to

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00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,960
say she considers herself to be
both an influencer and an

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00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:29,520
educator.
I would agree.

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00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,480
I think we kind of talked about
that a little earlier.

255
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:33,600
She recognizes her limits as an
educator.

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00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,440
I, I, I feel the same way.
This is why I have the podcast

257
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,800
so that I can bring people to
you that know things I don't.

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00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:40,880
I never collaborate with a
brand.

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00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,360
I wouldn't use very selective
turn down brand deals all the

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00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:45,680
time.
Completely agree.

261
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,000
Some people who purport to be
educators lack the knowledge

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00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,480
base to actually be educators,
but they don't realize the

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00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,720
limits of their knowledge.
And I think that is the problem.

264
00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:55,600
Like not realizing your
limitations.

265
00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,000
Exactly, and that was I had that
problem when I first started

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00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:03,720
here, which gave me like a big
almost existential crisis where

267
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:09,280
I had to step back and go, OK, I
can't just apply everything

268
00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,760
human to animal.
You need to do a little bit more

269
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:14,640
digging.
So and I think that kind of is a

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00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,520
good lead into the first point
that I want to make for this

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video.
So bear with us guys, because

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00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,640
this this video that we're kind
of doing a breakdown was like 2

273
00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,120
1/2 hours long and we're going
to try and cram it until like an

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00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:27,680
hour.
But one of the biggest things

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00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:34,080
for me was it kind of starts out
saying like we built a brand and

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00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,840
wrote a book and then went on a
book tour.

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And then we we started asking
the hard questions and he had to

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00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,960
unlearn everything that we had
already learned.

279
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,720
OK, that's what they said.
That really disturbed me because

280
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:54,400
you should never be going all in
and spending so much time and

281
00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,960
money in reaching so many people
and saying and recommending so

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00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,920
many things.
If you didn't already ask the

283
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,120
hard questions.
That is.

284
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,360
That's how you steer people
wrong.

285
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:09,120
That's how you steer people
wrong.

286
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:13,720
That's called jumping on a fad
or following the hype and doing

287
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,720
signing up with brand deals and
just getting the clicks and the

288
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,720
likes and the follows rather
than actually knowing the

289
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,240
information inside and out
before you put it out there for

290
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,080
people to consume.
So that's like how they kind of

291
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:30,800
open their video explanation and
I immediately was really

292
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,960
disturbed by that.
So, and apparently so, is Bear,

293
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,040
if you can hear him barking.
Yeah.

294
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,600
Well, and that's like, you know,
and probably why it took us so

295
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:45,080
long to get to do this video
because I, it took me, it took

296
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:51,240
me not 4 consecutive days, but
the, the, when I sat down to

297
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:55,320
watch this video, four whole
days for me to get through the

298
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,520
video because I would start and
I would get so frustrated and

299
00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,360
like, I didn't want to have
those feelings.

300
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,200
I need to like I'm, I've been
learning to actually feel my

301
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,520
feelings again and like process
them.

302
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:10,000
And I, I would have to turn the
video off.

303
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,160
I'd have to pause it and be
like, I will come back to this

304
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,680
later.
And, but that actually reminds

305
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,200
me of the thing that I was going
to say earlier is that in our

306
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,599
society, right?
Like they, this book deal was

307
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:23,040
brought to them.
And that, that was one of the

308
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,160
things that bothered me.
Like I was really happy for them

309
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,600
when that happened because
somebody like Rodney or Karen

310
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,560
Rita Hogan with her herbal dog
book, like they had to fight and

311
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:39,080
fight and fight and fight to get
their book published.

312
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,240
And this this book deal was
brought to them.

313
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,160
And I was so freaking happy for
them for that.

314
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:48,600
And it it's like A to me, OK,
the forever dog did amazing.

315
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,080
The forever dog like did
amazing.

316
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,080
The herbal dog has done amazing.
So those are really great proof

317
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:57,040
of concept that there is a
market for these types of books.

318
00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:00,520
But the way the human brain
works is that you can have like

319
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:04,080
20 amazing experiences and that
one bad experiences is going to

320
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,760
ruin all of it.
And now like, I'm so curious how

321
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:09,640
publishers are going to look at
this.

322
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,560
Yeah.
And see this one bad experience.

323
00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:15,520
I worry that it's going to be
like a, you know, one step

324
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,200
forward, 2 steps back when
something like this happens.

325
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,840
I think you can really
reverberate and backfire in a

326
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,640
community like ours, which can
be contentious and where we have

327
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,000
so many big opinions and, you
know, people with big brains and

328
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,600
lots of knowledge.
And, and you already, I think

329
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,240
find it difficult not to fight
amongst ourselves, which is

330
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,880
frustrating in and of itself.
But then when something like

331
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:41,560
this happens, I, I almost feel
like it's like the people

332
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,320
waiting the in the wings who are
now going, I told you so See, I

333
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:49,120
knew it was bullshit, right?
And I hate that because that's

334
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:50,640
not what our community is about,
right?

335
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:55,000
It really it's about building
each other up and, and educating

336
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,200
and just literally all we all
want is for our animals to live

337
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,160
better lives.
And and I think you have these

338
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:01,600
influencers want that too,
right?

339
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,360
They only ended up here because
they wanted their dogs to live

340
00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:07,240
the longest, healthiest, best
lives possible.

341
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:12,240
And they still want that.
It's just that I think the way

342
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,520
they're going about things is
just not the way I would do it.

343
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,120
Oops, yeah.
My cat's causing an earthquake.

344
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,520
For me and and look again going
back to like I'm not perfect.

345
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:31,040
I don't know everything I I have
put out video saying I was

346
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:32,160
wrong.
Yeah.

347
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,680
Two that I can think of off the
top of my head, one of which I

348
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,240
now I'm like, was I wrong?
I don't know, like, like I'm

349
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,080
because I keep learning because
we keep getting new science,

350
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:47,120
because we keep getting true,
like real experts who spend

351
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:50,480
their lives doing the research
and studying the science,

352
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:55,680
saying, you know, when we really
put, we have these new studies

353
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,760
or when we put these other
studies together, like maybe,

354
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,200
maybe, maybe this, maybe not.
And, and I but I also think

355
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,120
that's one of the things that is
so difficult in every space.

356
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,480
By the way, I think that, you
know, allopathic western

357
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,040
medicine really we've gotten,
it's like checkbox medicine,

358
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:14,800
right?
Like that's where we are today.

359
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,920
And so they they have done a
really, really good job in kind

360
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:23,400
of indoctrinating us as a
society to say everything fits

361
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,840
in a box and when it doesn't.
That hurts us so badly that

362
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,240
we're like, we can't handle it,
right, We can't handle it.

363
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:34,080
But the reality of the whole
world we live in is that nothing

364
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,400
fits in a box.
And I think that's one of the

365
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,400
things that I conversations I
know I had this weekend because

366
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,560
we I just went to the more, you
know, pet Wellness them and

367
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,320
listening to some amazing
speakers, though, who, by the

368
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,160
way, Dr. Connor Brady gets up on
stage and says, yeah, I'm

369
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,320
constantly telling you guys that
I was wrong because I learned

370
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,560
something new.
Look at Doctor Karen Becker.

371
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:55,840
She's also a great example.
Do you remember when she talked

372
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,360
about how she was so sad that
she had been recommending early

373
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:02,480
spay and neuter, you know, 20
years ago and now?

374
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,200
Yeah, it took 20 years for us to
realize the effects that that

375
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:10,120
was causing to animals, right?
She followed the best science

376
00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:12,480
that she had back then and, you
know, just in terms of

377
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,040
population control and all of
the trouble that we were having

378
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,280
in America 20 years ago.
But things changed.

379
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,760
The research came out, evidence
was presented, and she went,

380
00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:24,720
damn, I need to update my
practices.

381
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:26,960
Hey guys, let me be transparent
about this.

382
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,280
That's the right way.
That's the right way to say

383
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,960
you've learned better.
Right.

384
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:34,760
What we're discussing that's the
wrong way.

385
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,600
But it wasn't.
It was part of the conversation

386
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,160
that we were having like
privately, like in the with the

387
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,480
speakers and the vendors and the
sponsors like us behind.

388
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,680
Like after all the pet parents
went home.

389
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,840
I, I don't, that sounds weird.
We're pet parents too.

390
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:53,320
Like I'm not othering people.
But like the conversations we

391
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:58,320
were having were like, I get why
this is so hard for a lot of

392
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:03,280
people because even amongst us,
even in one day where we brought

393
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:08,000
5 speakers together and I don't
know, 10 vendors, like we are in

394
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:12,880
one day telling pet parents
contradictory information from

395
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,080
the stage right between the
speakers.

396
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:17,600
There's contradictory
information.

397
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:22,160
And like I think all of the
speakers, all of the people that

398
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,120
we know and love are really good
about saying this is what I

399
00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:29,720
currently believe.
But also there's room like we

400
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:35,280
never, I think we try really
hard to never come out saying

401
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,360
it's black and white.
We always come out saying this

402
00:22:38,360 --> 00:22:41,160
is what I'm currently believing
based on the research, but

403
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:46,200
everything is Gray, right?
And I think that's not what

404
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:50,120
happened in this video.
Yeah, I agree.

405
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,520
You know, it's funny, they kind
of they kind of make it clear

406
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,160
that they have a bit of a black
and white mentality also very

407
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,440
close to being of the video.
Because another thing that they

408
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,120
mention is when they first kind
of realized that this was the

409
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:06,000
space that they wanted to step
into and they had all of these,

410
00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:09,360
you know, truth bombs coming at
them about things that they had

411
00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:12,080
never thought of before.
One of the things that they did

412
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,400
is like a complete almost kind
of like a health cleanse and,

413
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,400
and gave themselves an
incredibly restrictive diet,

414
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,480
which, you know, allowed them to
feel healthier and lose a lot of

415
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,240
weight.
But they felt like it was

416
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,320
completely unsustainable and
overly restricting and kind of

417
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,480
tout that as being like a
negative of like being in the

418
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,480
space and kind of like
following, well, almost like

419
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,000
following other influencers,
right.

420
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,440
And I completely agree that
sounds very restrictive.

421
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,040
But that's also not what the
holistic pet spaces is

422
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,120
recommending people do.
We are recommending A healthier

423
00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:47,840
way of life, yes, but that way
of life shouldn't be restricting

424
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,800
or unsustainable.
As a matter of fact, I don't

425
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:54,800
think that I have heard anybody
speak to the importance of

426
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,560
feeding fresh food without
talking about how to make it

427
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,880
sustainable in a long time.
I mean everything when I'm

428
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,440
talking about I have, you know,
experts on or nutritionists on

429
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,040
or even on my website.
I have a whole.

430
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:15,240
I spent almost, I don't even
know, 2-3 weeks combing through

431
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:21,440
the Internet to find as many
co-ops by state as possible in

432
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:26,080
compiling that onto a web page
for people like the people in

433
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,760
this space want everyone to
succeed.

434
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,640
Yeah.
You know, if we didn't, we

435
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,680
wouldn't be here and also we'd
be out of a job.

436
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,560
I mean, not I'm not called a
job, but like for a lot of

437
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,760
people, this is our job.
And if, if we couldn't make this

438
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,080
sustainable for people, if it
was like, haha, chump got you

439
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,320
and then move on to the next
every single time.

440
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,640
I'm sorry, where do you think we
would be?

441
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,640
This is millions of people that
come back over and over and over

442
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,680
and are continuing to do this
lifelong.

443
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:58,600
So making things unsustainable
sounds like more of a personal

444
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,240
problem, not something that the
holistic space stands for.

445
00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:04,440
Yeah, I, I completely agree with
that.

446
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,880
And also it's really easy to
look at the extremes on either

447
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,960
side and say, because they
scream at us, right?

448
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,600
The majority of the population
is pretty quiet.

449
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,640
It's those extremes that are so
loud all the time.

450
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,600
And I think that's what I saw a
lot of in this video was the

451
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,800
extremes, the the and because
I've seen it too, I've heard it

452
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,520
too.
You shouldn't, you shouldn't be

453
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,000
allowed to own a dog if you
can't afford to feed them a

454
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,520
species appropriate diet.
Like I would never say that to

455
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,480
anybody because you know what a
fed dog is better than a

456
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,320
starving dog.
And like a dog in a loving home

457
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,120
is better than a dog on the
street, right?

458
00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:49,560
Like you do the best you can.
I mean, I think that is

459
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:54,280
something that we all have had
to learn also can I think a lot

460
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,920
of us, maybe not all of us, but
a lot of us start out with like,

461
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,160
no, we have to do it this way
because this is the right way

462
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,760
and this is what works.
And then we kind of learn really

463
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:08,280
quickly, hopefully that like
you're not, you're not going to

464
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,840
get very far that way because
that is unsustainable.

465
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,760
So bringing in the extremes that
the extremes are unsustainable.

466
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,480
And unfortunately, the extremes,
you're right, are the ones that

467
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,960
tend to shout the loudest, but
they're also the ones that I

468
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:21,760
think are easy enough to go all
right.

469
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:23,840
Well, that person's maybe being
a little bit of a zealot about

470
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,320
this and we need to just.
For sure, yeah.

471
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,480
They can be, they might be the
loudest, but sometimes they're

472
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,600
the easiest to ignore and you
can just put the upside down :)

473
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,200
and go about your day.
Right.

474
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,680
And I do think, I do think some
of it, and I like reading

475
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:42,760
through some of your notes on,
on the video, like I'm probably

476
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,960
jumping all around here, but
like there definitely are

477
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,000
creators and influencers.
I don't think educators.

478
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:55,240
I think educators are the ones
most frustrated with the

479
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,000
algorithms because we are so
against doing click baity

480
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,880
things.
Like we might try them in a very

481
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,720
subtle way here and there, like
learning that you've got to

482
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,480
catch somebody's attention in
the first 3 seconds by saying

483
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:09,480
something.
You know what I mean?

484
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,440
Like we try to do those things
because we want people to see

485
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,840
the content and hear the content
and realize that like there's

486
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:18,520
more there than just the click
bait.

487
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,680
But a lot of creators and
influencers especially are very

488
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,240
click baity.
So could I think of an instance

489
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,760
where I would want somebody to
eat a piece of chocolate over an

490
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,640
apple maybe, Right.
If it's like organic dark

491
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:41,440
chocolate, fair trade whatever
versus like a non organic apple

492
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,880
covered in a peel, maybe I would
want you to eat.

493
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,800
In glyphosate just prior to to
consuming it, yeah.

494
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,560
Maybe I would want you to eat
the chocolate versus the apple.

495
00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:55,280
It's like Snow White 2 point O
an apple.

496
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,000
Yeah, yeah.
Oh.

497
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,480
My God, no, I, I yes, I I know
what you're saying.

498
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,960
Sometimes it feels like you are
capitulating to get someone to

499
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,520
watch.
And yeah, because it is

500
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,120
frustrating at the end of the
day.

501
00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:11,440
And you know what?
I have cried.

502
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,080
I'm not ashamed.
I have cried to you, Jess, to my

503
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,040
husband many times.
My poor husband.

504
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,400
He's a St. about how I spend so
much time and effort.

505
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,000
First, educating myself.
Second, turning that education

506
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,800
into content.
Excuse me, Goose.

507
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,440
Sorry.
My cat decided it would be a

508
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,000
great time to step right in
front of the camera.

509
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,760
So make it, getting the
education, putting it into a

510
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,520
format that I think people will
like taking the time to like

511
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:42,640
upload it to each social or to,
you know, make it into a Canva

512
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,720
presentation or whatever, record
it, whatever it is, and then put

513
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,160
it out there for the world to
see.

514
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:49,840
And you get like three people to
view it.

515
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,640
And you're like, well, that's
cool.

516
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,080
I spent 30 hours on this.
It's frustrating, it's

517
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,240
exhausting, and it's not fair.
It's not fair when you see

518
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,160
people like this, people who
catapulted themselves to fame by

519
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,880
saying the right things and
making click baity videos and

520
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,760
following all the trends just to
pull the rug out from under

521
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,600
1,000,000 followers according to
what they say in their video and

522
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,520
be like, actually, we didn't
really mean most of that.

523
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,000
Like it's infuriating.
Yeah, it is.

524
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,520
It is very frustrating and I get
a tangent.

525
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,360
You know, you're good.
Like it's, it's, it's the

526
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:32,760
reality of where we are and it's
the reality of society that like

527
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,640
we can't, we can't sit and watch
a 20 minute video anymore,

528
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:38,440
right?
Like if you can't catch my

529
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,320
attention in three seconds, I've
got no time for you.

530
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:42,680
Right?
Like that.

531
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,200
It's, it sucks.
We've allowed it to happen,

532
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,400
right, with advertising and
video games, and I mean with

533
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,640
social media in general, like
it's very much, you know, a slot

534
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:57,240
machine very much like that's
what they're designed to be is

535
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,560
each one of these platforms is
like, how can we get better at

536
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,240
being that slot machine that you
can't walk away from?

537
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,560
That's the whole point of social
media platforms.

538
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,600
So, you know, trying to figure
out and I think that's, that is

539
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,520
one of the really I and I cried.
I cried watching the video we're

540
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,480
talking about.
And I remember texting you when

541
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,440
I felt like the I forced myself
to sit there the last like 30

542
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,120
minutes of the video without
stopping it.

543
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:27,160
And I was just, I was bawling,
crying because one, mostly for

544
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,840
the pet parents that are going
to see that video and think that

545
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,440
now they're doing everything
wrong.

546
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,320
Yeah.
When I don't think they are, I

547
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,320
don't think they are.
I agree.

548
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,760
I'm very afraid that this is
going to either turn people off

549
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,280
from the community because
they're going to feel like

550
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,760
things are too divisive or that
we're wishy washy or that people

551
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,080
are going to take what they say
to heart to the detriment of

552
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,600
their pets.
And I, I really hope that's not

553
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,040
what happens.
Yeah.

554
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,560
You know what another one of the
points that gets made in this

555
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,400
video is, And I think I actually
quoted it in my notes, it was

556
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,440
said, quote, those who spread
misinformation often aren't

557
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,400
aware of it.
They actually believe they're

558
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,240
doing what's best for them and
other people.

559
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,880
End Quote.
I agree, that's very true.

560
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,680
What's not true is to apply that
quote to the holistic community

561
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,280
as a whole.
That is very wrong.

562
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,120
Yeah.
You know, and it aggravates me

563
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:26,080
because they keep talking about
how holistic modalities aren't

564
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,320
aren't backed by science.
Or they talk about how like one

565
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,560
of the big points that they make
is how they were all gung ho

566
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,440
about raw milk for a long time
and that they were considering

567
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,040
doing just like drinking only
raw milk for like a month to do

568
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:44,440
a reset and then pulled back and
realized that they pulled back

569
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,800
and realized that that that they
weren't going to.

570
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,120
I'm I'm pretty sure I and I
can't, you know, say quotations

571
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,920
again, but they said something
along the lines of we realized

572
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,240
that that wasn't going to give
us the nutrients that we need.

573
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,520
And it's like.
You know, because we eat off of

574
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,880
a spreadsheet every day.
Exactly, I just had a podcast

575
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,680
episode on raw Romney's podcast
with the amazing Roxanne Stone

576
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,920
of solutions pet product.
She's products.

577
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,960
She's amazing and we talked
about raw milk restorative

578
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,640
diets.
There is literally I where did I

579
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,520
I even I put it up here on my
thing.

580
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:25,600
This since the 90s, doctors,
physicians at the Mayo Clinic,

581
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:30,560
which is one of the most famous
clinics in America, have used

582
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,720
raw milk to help reset and
restore chronic gut conditions,

583
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,760
autoimmune conditions, all kinds
of things, allergies.

584
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:43,920
There is so much data about raw
milk and how it helps people

585
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,360
when they're younger and can
also help when you're older.

586
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,560
And a lot of that has been
applied to animals to just throw

587
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,720
that out casually and be like,
well, we realized it wasn't

588
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:58,320
giving us the nutrients we need.
Please Jesus, it explained to me

589
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,240
how we feed babies nothing but
raw milk for like 12 months of

590
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,240
life and they grow into tiny
humans.

591
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:05,640
Can you please explain that to
me?

592
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,520
And it builds their immune
system.

593
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,560
It literally builds their immune
system.

594
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,720
Like that?
There's a reason why we use it

595
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,640
for restorative diets.
I mean I do this with my clients

596
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,400
all the time.
It does that mean me that that

597
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:24,960
that was rough because the
reality is the reality is that

598
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:30,000
the majority of milk production
in this country is in

599
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,080
industrialized lot raised
cattle.

600
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,680
And to me, I would never drink
that milk raw like that no, so

601
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,160
it I would I would very much
like that to be the inverse.

602
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:46,120
I would, I would love for the
majority of milk on the market

603
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,320
to be raw and I would love for
the majority, all cattle to be

604
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,240
raised regeneratively and
naturally.

605
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,840
That's not where we are.
So no, like if you go into a,

606
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:03,840
you know, an industrial ranch, I
would not drink that milk raw.

607
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,880
No, all you need to do is drive
by it on the highway and you can

608
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,520
smell why you would never want
to drink or eat any of that

609
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,560
product.
So, yeah, terrifying.

610
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:13,280
Yeah.
Yeah.

611
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:14,880
But that's, you know, that's not
what we're talking about.

612
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:19,280
We're talking about raw.
Like true, safe raw with amazing

613
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,080
requirements.
And for anybody who's listening,

614
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,440
check out Raw Farms in
California.

615
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,480
And Mark McAfee is the owner and
founder of Raw Farms.

616
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,719
He's phenomenal.
I have met him in person.

617
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,600
I've interviewed him on my
podcast.

618
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:34,400
I went to his ranch, I saw how
his cows were raised.

619
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,760
I saw his facility.
I saw how they test every single

620
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,480
batch multiple times for
pathogenic organisms.

621
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,480
I mean, I literally saw their
laboratory.

622
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,440
The ones that are doing it right
are doing it right.

623
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:52,280
And those that's, that's how you
do a restorative diet, right.

624
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:57,560
So raw cow milk from them, raw
goat milk from, you know, green

625
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:02,160
juju solutions.
Now they have the sheep nog

626
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,520
solutions.
I mean, they have, they're doing

627
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:10,840
it right.
Asian has ruined the dairy

628
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,600
industry unfortunately.
I mean so much.

629
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,840
It created a lot of controversy
and I don't think that's

630
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:17,880
something that's ever going to
change.

631
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,200
And also we could probably spend
like 45 minutes on just that

632
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:21,480
alone.
But but that was one of the

633
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,720
points that got me.
I know the most riled up, if you

634
00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:26,800
couldn't tell by how riled up I
just got again.

635
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,840
I, I had, I had a couple of
other moments that got me just

636
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:36,120
as riled up not to actually.
Before we go into it, I just

637
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,240
want to read a couple of these
comments on from the live.

638
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,800
SO 4 rooted Plas mentioned in my
eyes, they've lost all their

639
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:42,880
credibility.
I agree.

640
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,120
And to be honest, last year even
before they came out with the

641
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,440
whole we don't recommend raw
milk anymore, I saw that they

642
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:53,000
started doing affiliate,
affiliate links with the

643
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,000
farmer's dog.
That was that was the moment for

644
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,080
me.
That was it for me because I

645
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,640
know what's in the farmer's dog
formulations and it's not

646
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:03,600
something that I would recommend
I.

647
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,680
Would recommend it's it's fresh
formulated as kibble.

648
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,040
Yeah.
Like that's how I see it.

649
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,640
Lots of seed oils, lots of
potatoes and peas and things

650
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,600
that our dogs don't need.
So as soon as I saw that

651
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,720
partnership, I was like, I see
what's happening here.

652
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:22,840
It's where can I make the most
money?

653
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,600
So that really that's kind of
when it flew out the window for

654
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:27,880
me.
Dining with Dina.

655
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,640
That's a cute name said.
I say we just thank, thank them

656
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,120
for showing us who they really
are and hope that we've all

657
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,440
learned a valuable lesson.
Be careful who you take advice

658
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:37,160
from.
I agree.

659
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,000
I agree.
Oh hi to Sonia.

660
00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:40,760
Sonia from raw pets food is
here.

661
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:42,640
I love raw pets.
That's where I order a lot of my

662
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:43,920
food from.
She's amazing.

663
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,000
Dog Tot said.
I didn't watch the entire video,

664
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,120
but from what I did watch I
didn't think their views changed

665
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,880
that drastically, framing the
change as drastic as click bait

666
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:52,760
itself.
I.

667
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,160
Agree, they definitely made a
title that was kind of click

668
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,120
bait Yi think to try and get as
many people to click as

669
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,720
possible.
But they definitely have

670
00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:04,840
drastically changed their views.
Because to say I went from

671
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,080
drinking all raw milk to saying
we don't trust raw milk anymore,

672
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,560
saying that, you know, they went
all in on vet visits, no

673
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,640
vaccines, no flea chemicals,
only raw.

674
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,680
And now they're pulling back and
saying like, we still believe in

675
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,080
fresh, but we don't think raw is
best.

676
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,920
And we we thought that vaccines
were the devil and now we know

677
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,920
that's not true.
And it's like they really, they

678
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:32,760
swung from extreme to extreme.
It's all about the conversation

679
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,120
for each thing.
Yeah.

680
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,000
So it's it's not that some of
the views that they're

681
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,480
presenting right now I think is
wrong.

682
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,760
I agree raw isn't for every pet.
Fresh food in general is just

683
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,400
better.
But it doesn't have to be raw.

684
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,520
Yeah.
Just like a lot of points that

685
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,040
they made.
But the biggest point, the

686
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,800
biggest problem is that they did
so much gas lighting and made it

687
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,560
seem like there's no science
here, that we don't back up what

688
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,200
we say and that we're all just
influencing people.

689
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,320
And, and we'll get to, I have
another point later.

690
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,040
I think that will kind of
solidify some of those things.

691
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,440
So I'll come back to that.
But OK, I think that was that

692
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,120
was most of them.
Oh, dining with Gina said I

693
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,480
never found them credible.
I asked many of my friends what

694
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:15,800
even made them experts on
anything.

695
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,240
Same.
And I personally never thought

696
00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:21,800
they were experts on anything.
I mean, I don't consider myself

697
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,720
an expert on anything either,
but I was pretty darn happy with

698
00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:30,200
the reach they were getting for
the message that I do believe

699
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:31,560
in.
Yeah.

700
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,120
So that's where I was like,
yeah, if you don't.

701
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:36,440
Have the reach.
It doesn't matter what you say,

702
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,680
no one's there to hear.
It I mean, I think, I think

703
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,800
they're going to, I think
they'll probably keep some of

704
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,480
their audience, especially the
people who aren't in this, like

705
00:38:45,720 --> 00:38:49,440
if those were the only influence
influencers they were following

706
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,360
about holistic health.
If they didn't get into and

707
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,200
start looking into anybody else
or following anybody else,

708
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,480
they'll probably keep those
people and sadly transition them

709
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,720
back.
In my opinion, sadly transition

710
00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:03,600
them back.
But I do think they're going to

711
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:04,760
have to build a whole new
audience.

712
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,320
Yeah, and I'm sure they'll find
it.

713
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,640
Yeah, I'm sure they'll.
No, they're, it's out there.

714
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:17,160
I mean, PetSmart and Chewy and
Petco and Banfield and VC, like

715
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,320
they're thriving for a reason,
right?

716
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,560
You know what I mean?
Like the audience is there for

717
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,400
sure.
Banfield makes me cringe.

718
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:28,640
Makes me cringe.
All right, What?

719
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,080
You were going to make a point
about one of the things in the

720
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:35,280
video that bothered you.
So so many things bothered me

721
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,680
honestly.
Like I didn't quote anything

722
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,360
here, but to say herbs in nature
aren't designed by scientists

723
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:43,680
and they aren't studied for
health.

724
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,920
Like that's what I took from it
from one of the first things

725
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,040
they they mentioned, like and
just being in the space, I could

726
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,640
tell who they were targeting all
along the way.

727
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:56,480
And that bothering me too.
But like, yeah, like whatever

728
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:01,200
you believe in God, the universe
guy, like whatever you want to

729
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:05,000
call it, the earth gives us so
much like if we and humans have

730
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,080
destroyed it.
One of the one of the things

731
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,560
that it just popped in my head,
Connor talked about, I think

732
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,840
this was just like at the coffee
talk yesterday, but he said.

733
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,880
No, it might have been on stage.
He was like, if you zoom out to

734
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:22,480
like a world view, whatever you
believe in a creator or the

735
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,800
universe or whatever, and we
say, what is what's a pathogen?

736
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,880
And you look at the Earth,
humans are the pathogen.

737
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:31,800
Yeah, right.
You know what I mean?

738
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:37,240
So like that it was absolutely
humans are the pathogen, humans

739
00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:39,880
are the weed, humans are the
pathogen, humans are the ones

740
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,520
that are but without us.
Like if we take, if we take away

741
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,120
what we have done to the Earth
since industrialization, if we

742
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,520
go back before
industrialization, we can look

743
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:53,240
and see that the Earth gave us
everything we needed, just not

744
00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:56,760
in anybody's financial interest,
right, To keep it that way.

745
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,360
That's that's that's what I see.
That's how I see it.

746
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,560
Yeah, I think I, I think I
remember Doctor Connor talking

747
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,720
about that a little bit at the
International Naturally Healthy

748
00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:08,280
Pets conference.
He was talking about like, what

749
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,280
is a pathogen?
What makes something a pathogen?

750
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,600
I really like that reference
because you're right, we have

751
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,560
kind of turned and burned the
world since we've been on it.

752
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,440
But, you know, now I think it's
a bit more synergistic, right?

753
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:22,720
It would exist without us, but I
guess we can't exist.

754
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:23,280
With us.
True.

755
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,120
Very true.
We need to just do a little bit

756
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:26,840
better to keep our hosts in good
health.

757
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,240
Right, yeah, so Millie's Real
Life asked a question, Healthy

758
00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:34,160
Pet Nutrition kind of answered,
but I want to jump into it just

759
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:35,960
really quickly.
Millie's real Life says how do

760
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,080
you feel about the effectiveness
of homeopathy?

761
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,880
I know there's not much info and
studies on it for pets.

762
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,440
Healthy Pet Nutrition says
homeopathy has been around

763
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,160
forever.
Doctor Richard Pitt Karen is a

764
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,040
great resource.
My understanding about

765
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,640
homeopathy, which is pretty
limited, though I have had

766
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,480
multiple homeopathic
veterinarians on my podcast to

767
00:41:54,480 --> 00:42:00,040
talk about it, is that we knew
for ever that homeopathy worked.

768
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,040
Hanneman, I think, was the
originator.

769
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,040
Is that right of homeopathy?
Doctor Hanneman, I believe

770
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,600
nothing about homeopathy.
It's one of the things that I'm

771
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,040
actually very intimidated about
and can't wait to learn more

772
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,920
about in the future.
I'm I'm intimidated about it to

773
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,720
even after having talked to so
many people about it, it still

774
00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:17,840
intimidates me to try to use it
like I'm not.

775
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,040
I will not practice with it.
I will not.

776
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,280
I don't know anything near
enough to recommend.

777
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,560
Like, that's one of my
limitations, right?

778
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:26,920
I know that's a limitation I
have.

779
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,640
So Hanneman, I believe, was the
name of the doctor that

780
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:34,520
originated the homeopathy.
We knew so much that it worked

781
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,640
so well.
The majority of hospitals in the

782
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,920
US used to be homeopathic
hospitals.

783
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,040
And then was it, was it
Rockefeller?

784
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:46,080
So he also was very much, he
knew and believed in and wrote

785
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:50,040
about the power of homeopathy.
But once he started making all

786
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:56,680
of his money through oil and
found out through oil and and

787
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:00,160
then petroleum and now
pharmaceuticals being petroleum

788
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:05,520
based, he very effectively went
out and said no more homeopathy,

789
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:10,080
killed all the homeopathic
hospitals to promote petroleum

790
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,960
based pharmaceuticals.
This is this was very

791
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:18,800
intentional for you. 100 years
later, 100 + 3 years later, to

792
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:23,600
not even think that homeopathy
has basis in science.

793
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,240
No, it absolutely does.
It absolutely does.

794
00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:29,600
We just have to remember it and
find it again.

795
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,600
I just don't know enough about
it, but it's something that I

796
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,480
definitely plan on adding to the
toolbox one day once I get more

797
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:38,560
confident with the other things
that I'm already using.

798
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,440
Right thing at a time, right?
Not a little bit of this, a

799
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:42,920
little bit of that.
Not dabbling.

800
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,880
I'm diving so right.
Can't dive into one until you

801
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:46,960
finish swimming through the
other.

802
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,920
And then Librella.
I was.

803
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,800
So I wasn't even sad about
Librella.

804
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,280
I was angry.
About it, I need to like go lay

805
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,200
down and like curl into a ball
like I can't with the librella.

806
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:04,160
I was angry about the librella.
So they made a.

807
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:08,400
They made a comment about so
they mentioned librella and like

808
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,760
how senior dogs might have
better quality of life if they

809
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,680
take that librella and that pet
parents have no business shaming

810
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,640
someone for giving it to their
dog even if it means that the

811
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,360
dog ends up with issues down the
line because of taking the

812
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,720
librella.
They were making a case that

813
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:25,560
like if it helps them now, even
if it causes problems down the

814
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:29,000
line, they shouldn't be shamed.
That is bullshit.

815
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:31,640
Well, that.
Takes me mad no?

816
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,320
Yes but I I don't believe in
shaming people.

817
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,160
I agree with the don't shame
people part, yes I agree.

818
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,480
Don't shame people, but.
However.

819
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,880
Educate people.
It's not about shaming.

820
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,880
It's about educating.
You don't you don't say like,

821
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,920
well, it's OK if you do this
even though it's going to cause

822
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,000
kidney failure later.
As long as they can get up and

823
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,120
walk around for two weeks.
No, that's not what we do here.

824
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,880
We say let's look into these
multiple holistic and natural

825
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,400
modalities that don't have side
effects like that, that aren't

826
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,440
going to potentially end your
pets life sooner just because it

827
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,200
gave them a few weeks of relief.
Once we learned what this drug

828
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:13,520
was doing to animals, the outcry
should be echoing across the

829
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,480
mountain tops.
So should anyone be shaming

830
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:18,400
ever?
No, but it's not.

831
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:21,880
I don't know, I just was really
disturbed by them.

832
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:29,560
Saying my issue is not at all
with pet parents giving Labrella

833
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:31,520
and Silencia to their dogs and
cats.

834
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:35,280
My issue is with the lack of
informed consent in the

835
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,520
veterinary industry.
So I mean in the, in the human

836
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,160
medical industry as well, but
we're we're talking about there,

837
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,320
there is no, I don't know what
we get.

838
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,440
What do we get informed consent
on when we go to the

839
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,520
veterinarians office?
Like, I don't even know, maybe.

840
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,480
Surgery, that's about it because
you have to sign for it.

841
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,080
But no, I agree.
My own animal is the exact same

842
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,920
example.
Bear got cytopoint for years.

843
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,880
Never one time was I told about
risk factors associated with

844
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,200
cytopoint.
Never was I given information

845
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,960
about adverse effects.
Never was I given the insert in

846
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,560
the package for this shot, not
even when I had to come back

847
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:13,040
sooner and sooner in between
each shot, not realizing why

848
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,360
that was happening and why it
wasn't lasting as long for him.

849
00:46:15,720 --> 00:46:18,720
Zero information.
It was literally offered to me

850
00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:21,760
as a miracle drug.
Your dog has allergies.

851
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,920
Well, we can give him this and
his symptoms are going to go

852
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:25,480
away.
So.

853
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,360
And that's unfortunately what
happens with a lot of these

854
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:33,200
pharmaceuticals, Librella
included and that one.

855
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,720
Yeah, pretty scary.
It's it for me it is.

856
00:46:36,720 --> 00:46:38,440
It is all about informed
consent.

857
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:43,360
Because yes, if you have a 17
year old dog who can barely

858
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,200
walk, but you just feel it in
your heart that they're not

859
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,520
ready to go yet, then OK, If
this is something you want to

860
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,400
try and you understand what the
risks are, OK.

861
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:57,440
But on a four year old dog, we
don't even know the extent of

862
00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:59,680
what nerve growth factor does in
the body.

863
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,560
So we don't know the extent of
what the the risks are.

864
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,800
Yeah, I got, you're right.
Like you said, nothing is black

865
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,520
or white.
And I could make a case that

866
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,320
maybe if you want to set up home
euthanasia services, right.

867
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,800
Or maybe you have some kids at
college and you want them to be

868
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,880
able to come home and say, you
know, goodbye or or maybe you

869
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,640
really are only hoping for
another two weeks, two months.

870
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:23,040
Yeah.
Yeah.

871
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:24,680
OK.
I could see, I could see

872
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,000
reaching for that fix
momentarily.

873
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,480
Momentarily.
Not if you want yours left with

874
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:35,520
your animal, because you're not
going to get it if you give

875
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,880
this.
I don't know, but yes.

876
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,760
I agree, but pet parents don't
know that.

877
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,720
Yeah, yeah.
Yes, and no one's telling it to

878
00:47:44,720 --> 00:47:47,920
them except the Internet after
something has happened to their

879
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,280
pet, because why else would they
look until it's unfortunately

880
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,800
too late?
Yeah, yeah.

881
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:58,760
Well, it's also so telling to me
that like they they put is it

882
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:04,480
Zoetis that puts out Elborella?
I don't even know around the

883
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:09,680
world, other countries have the
disclosure and we had to fight

884
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:14,320
to get the disclosure in our
pamphlets in our product

885
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:15,240
packaging.
So this.

886
00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:16,600
Was the point that I was going
to make earlier.

887
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,440
And then I wanted to wait in
this in this lovely video that

888
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,880
we're we've been talking about
now for 45 minutes, they

889
00:48:22,240 --> 00:48:27,240
reference a different video, an
interview between a Doctor

890
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,840
Gundry, who's a cardiologist and
Doctor Mike, who's a family

891
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,640
physician.
Now, Doctor Mike is one of those

892
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:36,560
people on the Internet that I
would say is both an educator

893
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,520
and an influencer.
He's very well known.

894
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:43,600
He's very handsome.
He has a giant Newfoundland

895
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,760
named Bear who is like a walking
pillow.

896
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:48,680
OK.
I enjoy Doctor Mike.

897
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,280
Doctor Mike.
Too I watch some of his videos.

898
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,200
Yeah, Doctor Mike reaches a lot
of people and he's doing the

899
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,880
things right.
He knows how to make YouTube

900
00:48:57,880 --> 00:48:59,680
content and he's famous for it.
So.

901
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:05,320
But in that content, his true
goal and his passion is

902
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,360
education.
And to be honest, I actually

903
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:10,640
didn't even look up this Doctor
Gundry guy afterwards.

904
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:12,960
I probably should have to see
like what he actually stands

905
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:14,640
for.
But essentially what was he

906
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,440
going on about Jesse?
He was talking about how like

907
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:19,000
fruits and vegetables are like
bad for you or something.

908
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,360
Like he made a, he made like one
random statement like apples are

909
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,120
poison or something.
Yeah.

910
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:29,240
Well, in that psychologist
trying to be a nutritionist,

911
00:49:29,240 --> 00:49:32,520
even though we all know that in
traditional medical school we

912
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:36,280
don't get nutrition education.
So there's that.

913
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:41,800
So, but I think, I do think he
is trying to be an influencer

914
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:45,840
and kind of hopping on some of
the bandwagons because Gundry,

915
00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:49,120
it is Gundry.
Gundry, yes, Doctor Gundry.

916
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,840
Because it is true that the
fruits and vegetables we have

917
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,520
today are genetically modified.
They are not the fruits and

918
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,280
vegetables that humans would
have been eaten.

919
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,960
Yes, most of them.
Or dipped in pesticides.

920
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,160
Or, you know, like grown in soil
that's depleted in nutrients.

921
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:05,080
True.
Yes, true.

922
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,120
Yeah.
So it's not that his argument

923
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:14,720
isn't rooted in truth, He's just
taking it to an extreme to get

924
00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:18,040
people's attention.
Yeah, as he also answers.

925
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,120
He also was using like kind of
like disarming language.

926
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:24,600
So essentially the reason why
the influencers that we're

927
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:28,160
talking about use this video as
an example is because this

928
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,080
doctor Gundry, who is not a
nutritionist, he's not certified

929
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,360
as a nutritionist.
He's a cardiologist.

930
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:38,200
He made some admittedly kind of
outlandish, outrageous

931
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:42,360
statements about like nutrition
and about eating fruits and

932
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:47,560
vegetables, things like that.
He was talking about like this

933
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:49,640
pathway essentially.
I think the whole thing that

934
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:51,920
sparked the conversation was he
was saying like it's OK to smoke

935
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:53,680
cigarettes because nicotine is
good for you.

936
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:56,600
Because he tried to say that
like nicotine becomes nicotinic

937
00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:00,360
acid which is vitamin B3 and
like you want your whatever.

938
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:02,360
Yeah, yeah.
He just like, goes down this

939
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,560
ridiculous pathway and Doctor
Mike is trying to corner him and

940
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:12,360
make him say, essentially make
it clear that he's full of shit.

941
00:51:13,240 --> 00:51:14,480
Yeah, yeah, he was.
He was.

942
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:16,040
And.
He was, he was.

943
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:17,920
This is a stupid video.
He is full of shit.

944
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:19,880
I can't even believe that he
would let Doctor Mike interview

945
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,040
him knowing that he was going to
completely pick him apart.

946
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:26,600
But the point of this is, is,
you know, in this video, they're

947
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:31,480
saying that Doctor Gundry used
like disarming language and red

948
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:36,640
flag language and specific
tactics to like disarm and

949
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:40,840
reroute people to make it seem
like he knew what he was talking

950
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:42,640
about when he actually had no
idea.

951
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:48,520
And that video, those tactics,
that is what they're saying the

952
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,280
holistic community and holistic
vets are doing.

953
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:55,600
They're saying that we are using
red flags and specific tactics

954
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:00,080
to like, make pet parents think
that there's more evidence or

955
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,560
more science or we know more
about a topic than we actually

956
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:08,400
do because we're using fancy
language and essentially fooling

957
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,760
them.
And I was just so disappointed

958
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,680
that they would take such an
obvious example of somebody

959
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,000
really skewing the science and
making outrageous statements and

960
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,840
then try and say that that's how
we as the holistic community act

961
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,200
and tried to like, make money
off of pet parents.

962
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:25,800
I was just really grossed out by
that.

963
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:32,120
Yeah, and I I completely like I
don't out of anybody in the

964
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:36,360
holistic pet space that uses
tactics like that.

965
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:40,320
I'm just gonna go with wherever
you're pointing in a finger.

966
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,560
Therefore going back 3 going
back to you.

967
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,360
That's probably the worst thing
that I'm gonna say on this whole

968
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,320
whole live.
But this is this is exactly like

969
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:54,880
an average person who has no
bandwidth that are just they're,

970
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:56,720
they're getting through their
life, right?

971
00:52:56,720 --> 00:53:00,000
They are, And I, I feel it too.
They're getting through their

972
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:01,800
life.
They're working their 9 to 5 or

973
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:03,680
whatever.
They're working there maybe two

974
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:05,680
or three jobs in this economy.
I have no idea.

975
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:07,560
They're just trying to do the
best for their kids and for

976
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:10,120
their pets.
They don't have the bandwidth to

977
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:13,560
really research things.
You see clips, you see reels and

978
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:18,160
Tik Toks and you're like, oh
man, yes, that this type of

979
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:21,480
content really sucks for those
people.

980
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,160
But this is also, and I was
going to say I was going to

981
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,600
bring this up before you brought
in gundry, but I think this is a

982
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,600
better place to bring in gun to
bring this in.

983
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:34,040
Is that I just felt so many
political undertones in this

984
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:38,480
whole video in this whole 2 1/2
hours and this this is this is a

985
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,800
point where I was like, Oh yeah,
this is very political because

986
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:46,040
COVID was politicized and by
politicizing COVID, we have now

987
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:48,520
politicized our whole healthcare
system.

988
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,000
And you're either right or
wrong.

989
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:57,760
You believe or you don't believe
and you know, I don't care what

990
00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:59,800
you think.
They bring in RFK Junior.

991
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,760
So I don't care what you believe
or you don't believe about RFK

992
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:04,600
Junior.
Maybe it's too much for you.

993
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:05,680
Maybe.
Yeah.

994
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,120
And and like we all do change
our minds.

995
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:11,040
We all do learn and grow.
So bringing up a 20 year old

996
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:14,920
interview or 10 year old
interview with somebody verse in

997
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:16,680
saying see, they've changed
their minds.

998
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:19,040
So you can't you can't trust
them.

999
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,880
We all change our minds.
That's the point.

1000
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:26,600
We all live and learn and grow
and, and like there's new

1001
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:31,000
research and we, we open
ourselves up to that new, like

1002
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,200
you have to open.
If you're not opening yourselves

1003
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:34,920
up to new information, then
you're not going to grow.

1004
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:37,920
I don't want to stagnate.
I don't want other people to

1005
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:39,400
stagnate.
I don't think it's beneficial

1006
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:41,520
for them or for their pets to
just stay stagnant.

1007
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,360
So like I had a problem with all
of that.

1008
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:50,520
I have an issue with
politicizing health and I felt

1009
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:54,880
that so deeply.
Like it was just like this, like

1010
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:59,160
hum underneath everything in the
video that felt so political to

1011
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:02,720
me.
Yeah, I think I didn't notice

1012
00:55:02,720 --> 00:55:04,800
that or like I guess see it
quite in that light.

1013
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:06,840
Although now that you've
mentioned a couple of those

1014
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,120
things, I agree.
I can see, I can see where

1015
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:10,960
you're coming from.
And I have a feeling that you

1016
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:14,000
and I probably have different
opinions on a few things just

1017
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,840
like we did, like what you're
explaining, which also again, is

1018
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:20,640
totally fine.
But whether or not that

1019
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,840
influenced where they were
coming from with all of this, I

1020
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:25,680
don't know.
It could have partially

1021
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:27,920
influenced, could have been a
big influence or could have had

1022
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:29,960
nothing to do with it.
And they just wanted to like use

1023
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,040
these as examples to like pull
them in, maybe partially because

1024
00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:36,920
those things in and of
themselves are hot topics that

1025
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:40,760
are that like make people watch
and react and share and comment,

1026
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:42,840
right?
So like the more, again, it's

1027
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,760
all about the algorithms.
So I don't know.

1028
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:48,760
Yeah.
Well, and that does, I don't

1029
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:53,640
know there is there were so many
other things like between Gundry

1030
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,960
and RFK that like we I know I
had made notes about but and I

1031
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,760
do think that does bring us to,
but that does bring us to a

1032
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:04,040
topic where I do think we I
think we agree, but not 100%

1033
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:06,840
which is on vaccines.
And I do feel like they

1034
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:09,720
definitely change their minds
big time on vaccines.

1035
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:14,840
They call vaccines treat
prevention in the video.

1036
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,880
OK, so I wrote a note.
Tell me if this makes sense to

1037
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:20,440
you and if this is actually the
part where you're at.

1038
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:24,360
So I had put a note in here.
It's #18 of 30 guys, I made 30

1039
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:28,800
walking points about this video
#18 was like using the clips of

1040
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:33,360
RK Junior and the clips of him
saying that unvaccinated kids

1041
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,600
are bright or smarter, more
engaged, blah, blah, blah.

1042
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:39,120
And they feel like this is very
insane mantra essentially.

1043
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:41,920
And my own personal opinion, I'm
not afraid to put it on here, is

1044
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,280
that I do think that that's kind
of over the top, some of those

1045
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,080
statements that he made.
I think that it's really unfair

1046
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:53,320
for people who live with autism
and and like make a, like a, a

1047
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:55,880
life and they have jobs, they
have thoughts, they have

1048
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,840
opinions, they have love,
spouses, children, right?

1049
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:02,560
I think to make broad statements
like blanket statements will

1050
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:05,480
never do you well in health.
I agree with.

1051
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:07,960
That absolutely.
And so I do think that like some

1052
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:10,200
of the some of the approaches
being taken are like a little

1053
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:13,280
bit over the top.
And I personally do not feel

1054
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:17,160
like I am educated enough or
have read enough research in the

1055
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:20,520
human realm to be able to take a
stance about vaccine, vaccine,

1056
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:22,560
vaccines and autism.
I cannot say one way or the

1057
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:24,040
other.
Yes, I believe this or no I do

1058
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:26,880
not.
And I won't because I would be

1059
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:29,920
foolish to do so without having
educated myself enough about it.

1060
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:34,520
But what I can say about
vaccines for dogs and cats, for

1061
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:40,680
our companion animals is that
there is no precedence for the

1062
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:44,720
ridiculous standards that are
set about vaccines for animals.

1063
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:48,680
And there is no reason why a 10
LB Chihuahua versus a 200 LB

1064
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:52,480
Newfoundland should be getting
the same dose of rabies vaccine

1065
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:58,480
every year when we have science
that shows us that you continue

1066
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,800
to mount an immune response
against rabies for upwards of

1067
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:05,120
seven to 10 years.
Literally, blood tests will

1068
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:08,160
prove it to you.
And there's no reason why

1069
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,480
veterinarians should be able to
get tighter testing and not get

1070
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:15,600
a booster unless their titer
test shows that they don't have

1071
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:17,120
appropriate enough immune
response.

1072
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:19,280
And they do that if they get
like bitten, scratched or

1073
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,160
whatever, that's that are
exposed to potential rabies,

1074
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:25,320
don't get rabies vaccines every
year or every three years.

1075
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,120
They just don't.
So why is that appropriate for

1076
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:30,400
humans?
But we can't use that science on

1077
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:32,160
pets.
And it's about money.

1078
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:34,560
And unfortunately, that in and
of itself is politicized, which

1079
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:37,400
is really like frustrating, but.
I can tell you guys.

1080
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:39,000
Too.
It's the same thing for people.

1081
00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:43,040
If I get a healthcare provider
in my emergency department who

1082
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:46,280
got a needle stick, it happens.
I've had a needle stick before.

1083
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:50,320
We draw their blood and we check
and see if their hepatitis B

1084
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:53,240
titer is still active.
If you show that you have

1085
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:55,920
immunity to hepatitis B, you
don't get a booster.

1086
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:59,240
If you show that you don't have
an immune response to hepatitis

1087
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:01,800
B anymore, you get a booster.
Why?

1088
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:03,960
Because you just stabbed
yourself with a needle from

1089
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:06,760
somebody who has hepatitis B and
you don't want to get hepatitis

1090
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:09,000
B.
But we don't just give it to you

1091
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:10,840
without checking, right?
We check.

1092
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:13,600
Why do we do that for vets?
Why do we do that for healthcare

1093
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:15,080
providers?
But why do we not do it for

1094
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:16,840
animals?
There's no reason other than

1095
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:17,720
money.
I agree.

1096
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:22,560
Well, and I actually, I mean, I
actually agree with all of your

1097
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:25,960
statements.
They're like, I don't know near

1098
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:29,520
enough to say one way or the
other on like vaccines and

1099
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:35,640
humans and autism.
I I I do agree that it's that we

1100
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:39,680
should look into it though.
Like, I don't, I don't think we

1101
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:41,000
can.
You research.

1102
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:44,640
Exactly.
That's you're gonna, that's

1103
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,440
where I'm at with it.
Like it's not absurd to ask the

1104
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:50,160
question and research it.
Yeah, yeah.

1105
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:53,280
If there's a question, if you're
not sure, if the science doesn't

1106
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:57,280
make sense, if the trail doesn't
track, then you look into it,

1107
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:00,160
right.
If the studies, you know, if we,

1108
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:03,040
if everything that we're doing
right now is based off of a very

1109
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,800
small subset of studies like 5
of them that were done in the

1110
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:08,640
80s.
Well, maybe there does need to

1111
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:10,360
be more research.
I agree.

1112
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:13,200
Don't stagnate, right?
We've said that multiple times

1113
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:13,720
here.
Yeah.

1114
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:16,560
So I do think that there always
is room for more research.

1115
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:20,400
Always.
Yeah, and, and I think there's

1116
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:24,160
more, I think there's room for
more research with dog and cat

1117
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:27,720
vaccines as well.
You know, they tried to do the,

1118
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:31,800
was it the the rabies challenge
study?

1119
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:36,640
And I mean, the reality is what
you have to do to these animals

1120
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:38,960
to to complete these studies is
horrific.

1121
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:41,120
And we don't want to do it.
Yeah, right.

1122
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:43,880
I get that too you.
Don't want to inject an animal

1123
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:47,120
with the rabies vaccine and find
that some of them actually end

1124
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:48,480
up getting rabies?
We don't want that.

1125
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:51,440
Yeah, yeah.
But is there a different way?

1126
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:54,120
I don't know.
I don't know either and it is

1127
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:58,400
it's it's unfortunate that we
can't take what we do now, like

1128
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:02,160
you just said, that we can
measure the immune response

1129
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:05,000
through a blood draw.
Yeah, just tighter I.

1130
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:06,360
Don't know.
Just do that.

1131
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:07,080
Just do that.
It's not.

1132
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:08,600
That hard?
It's not that hard.

1133
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:13,080
I'm moving actually, if you if I
pointed my camera literally

1134
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:16,080
anywhere else in this room right
now, it would look like an

1135
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:20,000
explosion happened.
But our moving our moving truck,

1136
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:22,680
our pods that we have to load up
comes in four days.

1137
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:26,480
And I I saved this section for
last to be broken down so that

1138
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:29,200
we can do our Live Today.
Oh my goodness.

1139
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:32,040
So it looks nice but actually
I'm surrounded by chaos.

1140
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:35,040
Chaos.
But I'm moving back to New York

1141
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:39,280
in just a few weeks and I need
to find a new vet And I'm so

1142
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:42,800
terrified that I am not going to
be able to find a vet that is

1143
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,440
going to accept titers.
I was very lucky to have found

1144
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:48,600
an integrative vet here that
lets me tighter my animals and

1145
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:52,360
very scared to go home and have
to get established with a new

1146
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:57,240
vet and have them tell me that
my 3 geriatric cats need a

1147
01:01:57,240 --> 01:02:00,920
rabies or my dog who has a
history of pancreatic issues

1148
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:04,520
needs a rabies booster.
Or my dog with a history of

1149
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:08,480
leaky gut and environmental
sensitivities needs a rabies

1150
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:08,960
booster.
Right.

1151
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:12,640
I don't want to give that to my
animals who either are geriatric

1152
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:15,840
or have had health conditions
that's not what their immune

1153
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:19,560
system needs.
So it's it's frustrating when

1154
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:23,760
you know the education doesn't
match like the actual legitimate

1155
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:26,920
science.
And I don't know without being a

1156
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:28,680
lawmaker, I don't know where
that.

1157
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:31,200
Comes from, yeah.
But I think our point about this

1158
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:35,880
was that they swung from no
vaccines ever their devil to

1159
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:38,120
vaccines are preventative.
So actually we should be getting

1160
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:40,200
them.
And there's no evidence to to

1161
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,200
there's no true scientific
evidence to show that vaccines

1162
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:45,320
can cause problems.
Yeah.

1163
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:48,840
Well, which I I also think is a
very extremist view to begin

1164
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,240
with, right.
Like that is to say no vaccines

1165
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:54,480
ever.
And yes, there are people, there

1166
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:58,040
are veterinarians or excuse me,
not practicing because they

1167
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,360
can't say it.
If they're practicing, if they

1168
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:03,280
have a current license, they
cannot say no vaccines.

1169
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:06,800
But there are people who were
veterinarians who say no

1170
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:09,200
vaccines ever.
And who got in big trouble for

1171
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:13,920
it and elected it?
Elected to forgo their license,

1172
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:16,920
Yeah.
Because they felt so strongly

1173
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:19,440
that that was not a part of
their Do no harm.

1174
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:23,960
Yes.
Well, and there are no sods and

1175
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:27,800
there are, there are other ways
to create, you know, a healthy

1176
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:30,920
immune system that has
appropriate response to certain

1177
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:34,360
certain things.
This is, again, my limitation.

1178
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:36,560
It's out of my purview.
I haven't done it.

1179
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:41,040
I can't talk to it.
I had Brie Drake on the podcast

1180
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:43,520
recently.
She did it with her most recent

1181
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:44,640
dog.
No sods.

1182
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:46,800
So no sods.
Yeah.

1183
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:50,800
I really don't know enough about
it and I want to but I don't.

1184
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:54,040
Yet, right, right.
I mean, I, I send everybody to

1185
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:55,760
doctor Will Falconer, I'm like,
there you go.

1186
01:03:56,200 --> 01:04:02,000
That's that's, that's the under.
Yep, that's beyond my

1187
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:05,720
capabilities at the moment.
But yeah, I, I just think that

1188
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:09,640
again, it's, it's not allowing
yourself to live in the Gray.

1189
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:13,720
And I think if you don't allow
yourself to, if, if you do take

1190
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:17,480
this as a very black and white,
and if you have that black and

1191
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:20,640
white perspective and you can't
live in the Gray, then you are

1192
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:23,120
going to burn yourself out and
you are going to feel like it's

1193
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:25,640
unsustainable.
And I, yeah, I think that maybe

1194
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:29,240
that's where they wound up
because there was a lot of talk

1195
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:31,720
about none of this being
sustainable.

1196
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:36,640
And the idea that the average
pet parent can't do this because

1197
01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:40,040
it's not sustainable bothered me
because there are average pet

1198
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:44,440
parents everywhere doing this.
Like, yeah, maybe it's still a

1199
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:49,240
small percentage of the dog and
cat population in the USI can

1200
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:51,480
only speak to the USI have no
idea what's going on the rest of

1201
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:53,040
the world, But they are doing
it.

1202
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:57,600
They are doing it.
So it it takes sure.

1203
01:04:57,600 --> 01:04:59,160
Is it going to take more?
But guess what?

1204
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:01,680
Gen.
Z's are not having babies

1205
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:03,840
anyway.
Like there's a whole movement of

1206
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:07,480
like, nobody wants kids anymore.
OK, great.

1207
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:09,840
They're all treating their kid,
their pets as kids.

1208
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:11,000
If that's what you want to do,
great.

1209
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,440
So then you do have the
bandwidth to do this with your

1210
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:16,280
pets, right?
I don't know this again stream

1211
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:17,800
of consciousness that I have
about it.

1212
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:21,080
I think maybe like a couple more
points before we hop off or

1213
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:25,400
let's see, I had something about
their website, I think.

1214
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:29,040
Yeah, the one of the phrases
that they use that pissed me off

1215
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:31,720
was that they said, quote, I
literally drank the Kool-aid,

1216
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:34,560
Yeah, when they were talking
about raw milk and the.

1217
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:36,400
Holistic raw space.
I was like, oh, that's.

1218
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:37,280
Cool.
Tell me.

1219
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:38,800
Yeah, tell me more about
kool-aid.

1220
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:41,440
All I can think about is like
the kool-aid man, like bursting

1221
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:42,400
into their house.
Do you?

1222
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:44,920
Remember the seeing all that?
Yeah, you're the.

1223
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:48,520
Kool-aid man.
I just all I see all I hear in

1224
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:52,040
my head when I hear that is like
the the cult leader guy, the

1225
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:53,240
like.
Oh God, yeah.

1226
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:57,040
Yeah, which I think was the
reference that he was making.

1227
01:05:57,240 --> 01:05:58,440
I don't believe this is AI.
Don't.

1228
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:00,880
Know I'm a part of the Jeep
community.

1229
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:03,960
You want to see a a cult?
Go join the deep community.

1230
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:06,600
We're a bunch of psychos.
I was going to say, you want to

1231
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:07,920
start a cult, Kara?
Let's.

1232
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:10,000
Hell yeah I do.
Let's start a cult.

1233
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:11,800
Start a call.
I'll start one.

1234
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:16,280
I would be terrible at it.
A bias.

1235
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:20,440
Let's talk about bias.
One of their complaints was that

1236
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:23,680
companies who sell raw milk and
share information about the

1237
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:26,760
safety of raw milk have no
business doing so because they

1238
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:29,280
don't warn about bias about
their potential bias.

1239
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:33,440
Anytime you make and sell
something, you assume there's

1240
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:37,040
personal bias there, right?
I made this, I'm selling it to

1241
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:40,160
you.
I am biased that it works and

1242
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:42,280
it's healthy and I want you to
purchase it from me.

1243
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:46,920
I personally don't think that
you need to make a disclaimer

1244
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:50,720
about personal bias for the
product that you're selling.

1245
01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:56,120
Now, on the other hand, if you
are an influencer or an educator

1246
01:06:56,120 --> 01:07:00,240
or somebody who does not make or
work for that company, but you

1247
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:05,680
make a profit from helping to
sell that company's product,

1248
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:10,440
that is bias that you should
disclose.

1249
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:14,720
And the best way that I can
explain this is if anybody has

1250
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:19,320
ever watched like an educational
video webinar.

1251
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:22,680
And I mean, I've watched a
bajillion of them over my career

1252
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:24,080
in healthcare.
At the beginning of these

1253
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:27,880
educational videos, it starts
with an introduction.

1254
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:30,680
I'm doctor so and so I'm nurse
practitioner, nurse

1255
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:33,800
practitioner, blah, blah, blah.
These are my disclaimers.

1256
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:38,200
And they will say if they have
stake in any companies or if

1257
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:40,920
they have ownership of any
companies or if they make

1258
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:44,440
compensation from any companies
that they might mention in their

1259
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:47,280
lecture.
So there's a difference between

1260
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:53,600
I believe in raw milk.
So I own a dairy farm and I

1261
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:57,560
practice good practices to bring
you this healthy product.

1262
01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:05,720
Or I'm an influencer who gets
10% of whatever you buy because

1263
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:08,720
you used my affiliate link.
Right.

1264
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:11,960
There's a, there's a, there's a
big difference there.

1265
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:15,480
And also, you know that saying
that like when somebody

1266
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:18,920
criticizes you about something,
it's because that's what they

1267
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:21,279
fear in themselves.
Yeah.

1268
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:26,200
Like that's just the vibe that
I'm getting again, like I don't

1269
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:29,279
want to be like super Debbie
Downer.

1270
01:08:29,279 --> 01:08:31,479
Like, yes, we are allowed to
change our minds.

1271
01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:36,080
And yes, we're, I think it's
just we were attacked.

1272
01:08:37,399 --> 01:08:39,760
Like when we get closer to the
end of the video, like we were

1273
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:44,279
attacked.
And I, I feel like, I mean,

1274
01:08:44,279 --> 01:08:46,800
we've had this conversation so
many times where like you have

1275
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:51,040
such an extensive medical, human
medical background that like it

1276
01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:54,359
feels a lot of people, how do I
want to say this?

1277
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:58,040
Like there's a lot more
credibility in what you're

1278
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:02,120
saying versus what I'm saying.
And I can realize that and I'm

1279
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:04,880
not, I'm fine with that.
But like, I don't know if

1280
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:05,399
that's.
True.

1281
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:08,960
Though a lot of people, well a
lot of people feel that way and

1282
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:13,279
I can acknowledge that and not
feel threatened by it.

1283
01:09:13,279 --> 01:09:18,439
Like I can support you and lift
you up because like I know that

1284
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:22,279
you're to me, I think you're
doing a good thing and not feel

1285
01:09:22,279 --> 01:09:25,960
like threatened by that.
But like I guess all that to say

1286
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:30,920
like that, we do share a couple
of certifications and those

1287
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:33,560
certifications were attacked.
Yeah.

1288
01:09:34,279 --> 01:09:36,560
And, and there's things that you
might say like I'm not

1289
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:38,200
comfortable with, go to this
person.

1290
01:09:38,399 --> 01:09:41,720
And it's the same thing for me.
Like for example, if somebody

1291
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:45,120
came to me and they wanted me to
help them DIY raw cat food, I'd

1292
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:48,319
be like, oh, I'm so sorry.
Here's my friend Jess's contact

1293
01:09:48,319 --> 01:09:50,640
information because I have no
idea how to do that.

1294
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:55,040
I can recommend 3 or 4 excellent
pre made raw or cooked brands

1295
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:58,680
for you to feed to your cat, but
I don't know how to formulate

1296
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:02,360
DIY raw for cats for dogs.
Come at me, come at me.

1297
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:04,440
I will give you all my
information.

1298
01:10:04,480 --> 01:10:07,040
Cats Absolutely not.
That's not my wheelhouse yet.

1299
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:08,240
Here's my friend Jess.
You know what I mean?

1300
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:11,360
Like there's everybody, not
everybody can be an expert in

1301
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:13,320
everything.
And I think being able to play

1302
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:16,680
on your strengths but then
uplift others when they have

1303
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:18,920
those strengths that you don't
is so important.

1304
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:22,680
And I think that we do do a good
job of that in this space and

1305
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:23,880
so.
I do too.

1306
01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:26,640
I think that's why it was so
frustrating to feel like so many

1307
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:28,840
blanket statements were made.
Yeah.

1308
01:10:29,440 --> 01:10:33,400
Bear heard me get loud and I
think he knows that my emotions

1309
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:36,080
are running high, so he came
over to breathe heavily into the

1310
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:38,680
microphone.
Well, and one thing that I want

1311
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:41,200
to say, and this is not
something I don't think I've

1312
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:45,920
ever said to you before, but I
somebody else said it to me and

1313
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:50,040
I had to sit with it for a while
because I think we have some

1314
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:53,440
aligned beliefs in one of the
certifications that we have.

1315
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:56,400
And, and somebody said this to
me and I had to sit with it for

1316
01:10:56,400 --> 01:10:59,760
a while to realize that with
this particular certification,

1317
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:03,720
it's all recommendations.
There are no treatment plans.

1318
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:08,120
There's no like this is all
recommendation based as, as a

1319
01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:13,880
coach, everybody, whether you're
a, a doctor or a veterinarian or

1320
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:17,960
a human health coach or a pet
health coach, we all get our

1321
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:22,680
education and then we have to
start out practicing practice.

1322
01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:27,440
It's a practice because you have
like a knowledge base and then

1323
01:11:27,440 --> 01:11:31,000
you actually have to go out and
use it and see how it works and

1324
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:34,040
see how things differ with
different individuals.

1325
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:40,160
And like, you know, I'm supposed
to do XYZ for this, but I have

1326
01:11:40,160 --> 01:11:44,640
found that if I add this or take
this away, it actually works

1327
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:46,800
better.
Like the idea that it's called

1328
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:49,720
practice for a reason.
I had to sit with that and be

1329
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:54,000
like, OK, like people need that
breadth of space.

1330
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:57,840
And that's not to say that it's
going to work out for every one

1331
01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:03,600
of them, but the reality is that
like there is so much need that

1332
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:05,760
we need.
We also need to give the people

1333
01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:11,840
trying that are getting what the
education that is out there, we

1334
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:16,600
need to give them the space to
help because they may not be

1335
01:12:16,600 --> 01:12:18,800
able to help with everything,
but they're going to be able to

1336
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:22,040
help with some things.
And is that, is that better than

1337
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:23,920
nothing?
And I think it is, yeah.

1338
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:26,840
And, and just always making sure
that you continue to learn and

1339
01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:29,200
grow and educate, right?
It that the buck doesn't stop

1340
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:33,000
when it doesn't you click the
last like test that you took for

1341
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:34,760
your certification, right?
Or when you get it in your

1342
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:38,000
e-mail or whatever, you have to
keep calling from there.

1343
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:41,840
And if you don't, then you have
no business being around, in my

1344
01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:42,360
opinion.
Yeah.

1345
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:45,120
Yeah, no, I completely agree
with that.

1346
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:47,120
I think we're kind of on on the
same page there.

1347
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:50,200
But it was called out and it
made me sad.

1348
01:12:50,480 --> 01:12:57,160
And because not because they're
100% wrong, but that again, it's

1349
01:12:57,160 --> 01:12:59,520
a blanket statement.
It's a black or white and

1350
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:01,960
everything in this is Gray, I
think.

1351
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:07,320
Yeah.
And so this video, this 2 1/2

1352
01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:11,040
hour behemoth ends with them
kind of like a call to action,

1353
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:13,160
right?
To scientists, researchers, and

1354
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:16,040
like other people with quote,
formal degrees.

1355
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:20,640
And they say that those people
need to make more social content

1356
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:23,880
so that millions of people can
get better information and

1357
01:13:23,880 --> 01:13:27,120
essentially have their lives
improved through science rather

1358
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:30,200
than only being able to get this
information from people in the

1359
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:32,680
holistic space who they feel are
spreading a lot of

1360
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:35,920
misinformation.
And what I have to say about

1361
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:42,160
that is I spent 12 years.
I know I look like a child, an

1362
01:13:42,160 --> 01:13:46,360
adolescent in my senior year of
high school, but I spent 12

1363
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:50,840
years working in medicine,
literally, sometimes savings

1364
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:52,360
people's lives.
I'm not kidding.

1365
01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:54,000
Like I have.
Yeah.

1366
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:56,840
You know, and sometimes all I do
is sow A laceration.

1367
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,520
And sometimes I bring somebody
back from having had a cardiac

1368
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:00,200
arrest.
OK.

1369
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:02,120
Like I have done all ends of the
spectrum.

1370
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:06,080
But despite the fact that you
might feel comfortable coming

1371
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:10,480
into my ER and putting your life
in my hands because I received

1372
01:14:10,480 --> 01:14:15,480
that education, I had huge
gaping holes in my education in

1373
01:14:15,480 --> 01:14:22,080
the realm of nutrition, natural
modalities, and holistic health.

1374
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:26,040
And those things should be a
part of every well-rounded

1375
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:29,440
curriculum for somebody who is
going into healthcare or

1376
01:14:29,440 --> 01:14:32,280
veterinary care for animals.
And it was not.

1377
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:35,600
And so if you had come into my
ER and wanted to talk to me

1378
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:39,560
about nutrition, I would have
not had anything to say to you.

1379
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:44,320
So it is not fair to say
scientists, researchers, and

1380
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:46,320
people with formal degrees are
the only ones that you should be

1381
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:49,040
listening to because I would
have Jack shift to say to you

1382
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:52,000
about nutrition 12 years ago or
even five years ago.

1383
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:55,120
I had to go and find that
information myself.

1384
01:14:55,440 --> 01:14:58,160
I still put a fruit roll up in
my lunch every day five years

1385
01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:01,560
ago because I thought I ate
chicken for dinner when I went

1386
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:04,560
home, so it was OK that I was
eating, you know, colored

1387
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:07,120
plastic like, you know what I
mean?

1388
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:10,520
Yeah, I do know.
You can't just say you have a

1389
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:15,240
formal degree and so you are an
authority on all things.

1390
01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:18,920
Yeah, it doesn't work like that.
It's disrespectful for the

1391
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:22,320
people who have worked hard and
went out and got that

1392
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:24,600
information and educated
themselves just because it

1393
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:28,400
didn't come with a $20,000 two
year college, you know,

1394
01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:34,480
certificate or $100,000 six year
college degree like mine.

1395
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:35,760
It's not.
Fair.

1396
01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:41,800
Especially today when we
literally have every bit of

1397
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:44,800
information that we could ever
want access to at our

1398
01:15:44,800 --> 01:15:47,640
fingertips.
Granted, not everybody is

1399
01:15:47,640 --> 01:15:50,280
utilizing it.
Most people are not utilizing

1400
01:15:50,280 --> 01:15:52,880
it.
But if you take the initiative

1401
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:56,240
to go out there and find that
information and learn that

1402
01:15:56,240 --> 01:16:00,320
information, like props to you
because that's not easy.

1403
01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:04,360
In fact, I think it's harder
than walking into a classroom

1404
01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:06,640
and having it handed to you.
Having it handed to you, but

1405
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:10,440
yeah, exactly because now with
AI and you know, bless AI,

1406
01:16:10,440 --> 01:16:14,520
whatever, it helps me like edit
my my blog articles.

1407
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:17,720
But if I went into a ChatGPT
that I haven't trained and I

1408
01:16:17,720 --> 01:16:22,080
said is garlic safe for dogs,
guess what answer I'm gonna get,

1409
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:23,960
right?
No, yeah, yeah.

1410
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:28,600
So that doesn't mean you are an
expert in all fields because you

1411
01:16:28,600 --> 01:16:30,680
have a ChatGPT.
It doesn't work like that.

1412
01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:33,520
You still have to go out and
actually find credible sources

1413
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:36,600
and Fact Check and get the
information from a primary

1414
01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:39,920
source and then be able to read
it and understand it and apply

1415
01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:41,400
it.
So it takes work.

1416
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:46,640
And to Foo all the people who do
that work, shame on them.

1417
01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:50,560
Yeah, I agree.
And also I just want to say one

1418
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:53,880
thing about veterinary
nutritionist, which by the way,

1419
01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:56,960
I have so much, and I say this
all the time, I have so much

1420
01:16:56,960 --> 01:17:01,440
respect for veterinarians.
Yeah, they have a knowledge base

1421
01:17:01,440 --> 01:17:05,760
that I don't have.
I am not here trying to tell

1422
01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:10,200
anybody anything differently.
I have a lot of respect for

1423
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:14,640
them.
But my, my view based on what

1424
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:19,960
clients have brought to me of
what you get from a veterinary

1425
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:24,760
nutritionist is just cut and
paste AFCO like that's what

1426
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:27,160
you're getting.
And I think people come to you

1427
01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:31,760
and me because they have either,
whether through education or

1428
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:35,800
something horrible happening to
their pet, have realized that

1429
01:17:35,800 --> 01:17:38,200
that's not what they want for
their pet anymore.

1430
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:41,920
There's a huge difference.
I'm not saying veterinary

1431
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:46,120
nutritionists are bad or wrong.
I'm saying that like there's

1432
01:17:46,120 --> 01:17:51,120
room and there is a difference.
And that difference is there for

1433
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:52,600
a very good reason.
I agree.

1434
01:17:53,480 --> 01:17:56,440
I agree.
Well, I think the take away is

1435
01:17:56,720 --> 01:17:59,640
there's room for growth, never
stop learning and the world

1436
01:17:59,640 --> 01:18:04,120
isn't black and white.
It isn't, it isn't, and at the

1437
01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:06,080
end of the day, learn what's
click bait.

1438
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:09,480
Yeah.
Like, there's so much click bait

1439
01:18:09,480 --> 01:18:12,840
out there that I get that it's
hard.

1440
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:17,240
I get that it's hard.
This is a new responsibility

1441
01:18:17,240 --> 01:18:19,880
that we have as humans in the
world.

1442
01:18:20,240 --> 01:18:22,360
Yeah, to weed through it and
find the right stuff.

1443
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:25,720
All right, I think that's it.
I think that wraps us up.

1444
01:18:26,480 --> 01:18:28,560
Yes.
Yes, nice talking to you.

1445
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:31,440
You too.
I know everybody keeps saying

1446
01:18:31,440 --> 01:18:32,960
they want us to do more of
these, so.

1447
01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:36,360
I would love to, I'll try and be
a little bit less Italian with

1448
01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:40,760
my hands and my voice next time.
Oh, I, oh, I talk with my hands.

1449
01:18:41,120 --> 01:18:43,680
I talk with my hands.
Yeah.

1450
01:18:43,680 --> 01:18:45,920
Maybe like after the summer
though, because you're moving

1451
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:48,720
with there's so much travel.
There's AFCO, there's Super Zoo,

1452
01:18:48,720 --> 01:18:52,520
which we're both going to be at.
So we will probably do some, at

1453
01:18:52,520 --> 01:18:55,040
least one live, maybe from AFCO.
Yeah, yeah.

1454
01:18:55,160 --> 01:18:57,640
And we'll, we'll, we'll figure
all that out.

1455
01:18:57,640 --> 01:18:59,040
All right, well.
I'll talk to you soon.

1456
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:02,400
Alright guys, have a good day.
Bye.