Aug. 19, 2025
211. AAFCO 2025 RECAP
In this episode, I give you the inside scoop from the AAFCO 2025 meeting. Short story: the rulebook is shifting, the FDA–AAFCO MOU is dissolving, and pet food labeling is still a maze built for manufacturers—not consumers. I break down what that shake-up actually means for your dog’s bowl—who writes the definitions, who enforces them, and where transparency falls apart.
I also call out the elephant in the room: there aren’t enough consumer voices at these tables. If we want cleaner sourcing, clearer labels, and real accountability, we have to show up. I’ll walk you through how to read past the marketing, what questions to ask brands, and where to plug into the process so we stop being spectators and start driving the standards.
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The American Association of Feed
Control Officials, 2025 annual.
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Meeting was earlier.
In August and I attended again
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this year and so today's episode
we're kind of running down some
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of my takeaways from this year's
meeting.
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If you are new here, thank you
so much for being here.
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My name is Jessica.
I am a certified canine
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nutritionist and holistic pet
health coach and this is the Pet
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Parenting Reset where I bring
you all kinds of incredible
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information for making better
choices for your pets, for their
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health and for their happiness
or hopefully an extended life,
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but certainly a healthier life.
With that, let's jump into AFCO.
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So AFCO is not a regulatory
body.
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We talk about this all the time
on the podcast they provide.
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They have been contracted for, I
don't know, over 100 years,
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something like that to by the
FDA, excuse me, by the FDA too,
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provide guidelines for not just
pet food, but feed, which is why
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it's the association of feed
control officials.
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So all you know, livestock feed,
all the things, they cover it
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all.
And.
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So it's a crazy time.
It's a crazy, crazy time.
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We've talked a little bit about
the Per Act in the past.
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If you've missed those episodes,
you can certainly go back to
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them.
And the Per Act is still in
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Congress.
But it is basics.
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It's dissolving the memorandum
of understanding, our MOU
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between FDACVM, which is the
Center for Veterinary Medicine
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at the FDA, Food and Drug
Administration with AFCO that
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has been in place for a very,
very long time.
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Some of the things that were
talked about this year were kind
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of follow up from last year
because last year was like, Oh
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my gosh, what is happening?
Like people in the room were
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silent because nobody knew what
was going on, what is happening.
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And I think we're still kind of
in that place.
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But AFCO is definitely grasping
to remain relevant and the FDA
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is saying that they are still
going to work with AFCO, just
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not in the same ways.
Anyway, we're going to get into
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all of that really quickly.
I want to present to you a
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really incredible product that I
have been using for Kim, and I
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want to say thank you because
without sponsors, this podcast
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may not continue.
OK, so welcome back.
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And so the AFCO 2025 Annual
Meeting opened up with a keynote
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speaker, Timothy Shell, who is
the acting FDACVM director.
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Some of the things he said.
So first of all, he said a lot
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without saying anything, which
is always interesting because
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politicians kind of have a knack
for that.
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And he definitely, there was a
lot of political speech speak at
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this AFCO meeting all around
because so FDACVM actually
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brought in, I think it was over
20 people to the meeting.
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It was a very well attended
meeting.
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It was in Omaha this year, which
actually was a really cute
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little city.
Cara and I, Cara from Rawpaw
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Adventures and I did a live.
We were supposed to do 2, but we
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ran out of time on the second
day.
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We did a live on the first day
to kind of recap what we heard
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that day.
So that was super fun.
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But some of the things he did
say is that he was speaking
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specifically about color
additives.
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And what he said is that what
happens in the human space will
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be mirrored in the animal space.
So for example, the red dye, the
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the one red dye that has been
banned and they've given, I
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don't know how many years to get
that out of human food that is
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going to be mirrored in the pet
space.
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I don't know any more than that.
But it sounds like their
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intention.
Is that any anything happening
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in the human food space as far
as like banning additives,
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banning colors, dyes, banning
things that are in food that
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that is going to translate into
pet food, which is a really good
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thing in my opinion.
Hopefully they follow through
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with that.
That's obviously something he
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just said out loud and was I
don't know if it's on paper
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anywhere.
And then of course he he just
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made note, made mention that the
grass system that generally
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recognizes safe system is
obviously something that is a
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big deal right now.
That is being talked about by
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the Health and Human Services
Secretary, Secretary Robert F
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Kennedy Junior, and talking
about looking at this and really
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seeing if it is a good system or
not.
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Timothy Shell seemed to feel
that whatever happens in the
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human space will also take place
in the pet food space, in the
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feed control space.
And then they talked about
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animal food ingredient
consultation, replacing the AFCO
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MOU.
So this is something that the
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FDA will take over, has taken
over from AFCO, which is a big
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part of what AFCO did for the
FDA.
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So again, AFCO representatives
kind of grasping at straws and
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we'll talk about a little bit
later on as well.
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One of the things that I found
most interesting is that
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especially in his in Timothy
Shell's speech, but it was kind
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of throughout and some of the
other speakers saying this as
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well, they all said that we were
all there for one common goal
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and that goal being to provide
the safest food possible.
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I disagree.
I am not there for that reason.
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I am there because I want the
healthiest food possible.
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And so I think that they're
missing the mark a little bit,
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but that is what they think
they're there for.
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That is their goal.
Their goal is to take waste,
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industrial waste, and make it as
safe as possible in their eyes,
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for animals to eat.
So that is very disconcerting
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for me.
But that's what happened with
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that.
There were, gosh, there was so
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much being talked about.
Let's see here, I'm going
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through my notes in this book.
So one of the things that I
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found interesting, they ratified
a new definition of fish.
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Fish is undecomposed whole fish
or flesh derived from the
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skeletal muscle, with or
without.
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Accompanying bone exclusive and
of any.
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Added heads, fends, tails, skin,
bones, and viscera, except in
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such amounts as might occur
unavoidably and processing.
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It shall be suitable for use in
animal food.
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It is intended for use in animal
food as a source of protein,
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consistent with good feeding
practices.
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If it bears a name descriptive
of its kind, it must correspond
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there too.
So again, one of the things that
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I don't like, because I work
with someone, I wouldn't want to
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feed this to my family.
That also means my pets.
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But I work with so many animals
that have sensitivities and to
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allow people to allow
manufacturers to just put fish
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on a label is not at all
transparent.
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Now it does say if it bears a
name descriptive of its kind, it
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must correspond there too.
Meaning that if a particular
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fish is defined, then it has to
say that particular fish.
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I feel like all fish should
should be defined.
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Like if we don't know what it
is, then why are we feeding it?
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So just having something that
says fish is very concerning for
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me, but it is obviously allowed
because there is a definition
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for it and you may have seen it
if you looked at ingredient
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labels.
Something else that I find very
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interesting that AFCO ratified
the official method for
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fluorine, FLUORINE in animal
feed.
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This is an ion selective
electrode method that was
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developed to analyze for
fluoride in animal feed.
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But the results of the method
are to be expressed as or
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reported as fluorine.
This means that the method
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actually detects fluoride and
not fluorine.
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Therefore guarantees or
specifications for fluorine are
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actually for fluoride.
Isn't that confusing and they're
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just saying OK, well it is what
it is so we'll define it as such
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instead of saying no, fix it,
No, fix it.
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That's what I'm saying, no fix
it.
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Also anything black soldier fly
larvae and black soldier fly
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larvae oil.
These are probably going to be
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very common.
I don't know in pet food, but it
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seems like it they might
eventually because they've been
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ratified in the definition for
AS part of what can be like an
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ingredient.
It's an ingredient definition.
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But what's interesting to me,
and if you don't know this, if
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you are not following along,
which nobody is, consumers are
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the biggest percentage of people
affected that need
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representation in feed and food
for for pets.
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And yet they have absolutely no
representation and it is
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terrifying.
So you might look at there might
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be like, I don't know, maybe
even an organic certification, I
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don't know.
This is speculation on my part
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for a food that has black
soldier fly larvae or black
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soldier fly larvae oil.
And then you don't know because
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the truth is the definition says
that those larvae which are
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approved to be used in adult dog
and adult cat foods, those
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larvae are exclusively fed feed
grade materials.
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So even though you might look at
this and say, OK, well it's a,
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it's a healthy protein source,
but those larvae are only fed
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feed grade materials.
Just like when we talk about
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what a cow eats or what a pig
eats and that affecting its
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nutrients and that affecting the
energetics and that affecting
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you or your pets consuming that
food, same goes with this.
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And so it's not going to be
expressly written.
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That's just part of the
definition.
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And by the way.
Definitions.
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Of ingredients in pet food is
available for purchase.
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They are not free.
You can purchase them as a
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consumer.
You have to purchase them as a
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manufacturer.
And I believe it's 250.
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Dollars a year.
Something like that.
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If you want to know what that
is.
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So I'm I'm not going to go
through everything that was
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talked about obviously at the
AFCO meeting.
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Just pulling up some of the big
ones.
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One of the things that I did
circle is that there was a new
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ingredient beta mayonnaise.
I have no idea how to say that
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word.
It is a strain of bacteria and
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the intended use says utility
information not evaluated for
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grass that generally recognizes
safe system.
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And then the FDA's letter says
FDA has no questions.
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So I'm sure this is very common.
And maybe to somebody else is
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like, OK, whatever.
But to me it's saying that like
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not even evaluated in the
generally recognized safe
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system.
And the FDA is like, OK, first
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of all, we don't like the grass
system to begin with.
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But then if we're not even using
it, what are we using again?
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Rent Red dye #3 is going it has
a sunset date of January 1st,
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2027.
So it is going to be a withdrawn
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ingredient.
And then here we go.
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OK, so according to the per act,
the FDACVM is going to be the
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final arbitrator regulating food
safety labels, labeling and
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advertising.
The states will continue
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testing, working with the FDA,
inspections and education and
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they are touting this as
regulatory harmony.
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Is is specifically what a quote
I heard and the FDA and the FTC
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already are.
They're already responsible for
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the authority of I can't read my
own handwriting of claims.
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They codify the language for the
OP, which is the like regulation
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book that AFCO created.
So they already codified that
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language.
So they're, they're just going
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to continue using it basically
they're not going to create
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their own.
They're going to say, OK, we've
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been using this forever.
We're just going to go ahead and
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continue using it as our own.
And the states still choose to
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work with the FDA.
And then federally they're going
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to codify pet food labeling.
So that's kind of like the
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highlight of the per act is that
there's going to be like one
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federal food labeling
regulation, whereas right now
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every individual states of 50
states have their own, which is
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very difficult for
manufacturers, especially small
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manufacturers.
So yeah, the the and then they
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talk, they went back to 19 O 9.
So it has been more than 100
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years.
Nineteen O 9 is when AFCO
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originally started basically
contracting for the FDA and the
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whole point.
Of AFCO.
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Was to get all of the states on
one page and it has been over
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100 years and they haven't been
able to do that.
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So it does kind of make sense
that the federal government
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00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:00,160
wants to take it back over.
So let's get to the second day
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at AFCO.
Yeah.
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So they were supposed to give
updates on HPP because there's
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no definition for HPP.
They were supposed to give a
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00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,840
definition for jerky and still
has not been defined.
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00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,480
And they're supposed to be a
definition for gently cooked,
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which is also not defined.
None of that has happened.
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00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,440
They requested work groups.
They don't have official work
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groups.
What's interesting with all of
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this is that we use HPP in human
food manufacturing.
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00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:30,880
So I feel like there should be
some definition somewhere of it.
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I don't know.
And then jerky, like how long
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has jerky been sold?
And there's no definition for
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00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,000
it.
That's kind of crazy as well.
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00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,720
And then gently cooked.
So I think along the same lines
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as as and then the common food
index, we added dates, pumpkin
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00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,000
seeds, honeydew, cantaloupe and
spinach.
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00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,760
What was really funny was
somebody was like, I'm shocked
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00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,000
we added honeydew in cantaloupe
because who knows what that
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00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,160
actually is.
And I was like, what like don't
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00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,080
we know about?
Actually, I don't know, maybe
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00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:01,560
I'm wrong on that.
You can let me know.
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00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,640
But also they brought up, which
is so silly.
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00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,800
They brought up food versus feed
again.
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00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,040
Now, the reason I say this is so
silly is because it's like, yes,
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00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:16,839
as a consumer, I absolutely want
to look at this again.
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00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:21,000
But as like AFCO, this is done,
this is handled.
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00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:25,440
This is, they've already decided
that these two words are to be
249
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,119
used interchangeably.
So anywhere you see the word
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00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:32,280
food, they mean feed and vice
versa is what they're saying.
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00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,200
These two words are
interchangeable.
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00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,720
As far as AFCO is concerned,
that's handled.
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00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,040
That's done.
I don't like it, but it's
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00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,280
handled and it's done.
So that's why I say it's silly.
255
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,800
But somebody actually got on the
mic and said, who even cares
256
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:50,200
about this anymore?
And I was like, wow, like, tell
257
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:56,520
me, tell me there are no
consumers on these panels
258
00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,000
without telling me there are no
consumers on these panels,
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00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,800
right?
Because even though consumers
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00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:08,400
are the largest group affected
by pet food and feed regulation,
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00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,880
they have no, no say.
They have no presence in
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00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,960
regulation whatsoever.
And it drives me up the wall.
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00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,960
And manufacturers, even even
healthy pet food manufacturers
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00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:25,920
don't care either.
They're like, leave it the way
265
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,160
it is because they can use feed
grade ingredients and still call
266
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:33,440
it food.
And some of our some of the
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00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,720
foods that we feed, some of the
foods that I even recommend are
268
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:41,840
technically they have feed grade
ingredients on them because this
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00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:43,640
is just the way of the world for
pet food.
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00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,920
But some of the.
Reasons that were given for not
271
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:54,240
going back to redefine this is
that one, it's too much work. 2
272
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,400
Does anybody care?
That was actually asked and then
273
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,200
it was admitted by almost
everybody that yes, it is very
274
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,240
confusing, but Nope, they are
not fixing it.
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00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,680
So pet food manufacturers may be
fine with that, industry may be
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00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,240
fine with that.
Feed control may be fine with
277
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,000
that.
As a consumer, I'm not fine with
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00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,040
that.
I want to know the difference.
279
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:20,680
I want, I want a pet food
package or a pet feed package to
280
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,320
say if it is food grade or if it
is feed grade.
281
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,680
That's what I want.
So on the second day, to kind of
282
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,160
close out the day, we had a
presentation from Doctor Kathy
283
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:36,400
Gross.
She is a PhD diplomat from the
284
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,320
American College of Animal
Nutrition.
285
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,840
She recently retired after a 32
year career at Hills Pet
286
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:46,560
Nutrition and she gave a
presentation on pet obesity.
287
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,680
And here are some of my
takeaways from her talk.
288
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,520
She still believes that reducing
reducing calories is the way to
289
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,520
combat this, that reducing
calories will keep pets a
290
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,960
healthy weight.
I think this is a very short
291
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,800
sighted argument.
Obesity is an inflammatory
292
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:06,280
disease and she did not talk
about that and there was a lot
293
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,560
of irony going on.
She also could not seem even
294
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,320
though she had trends and graphs
and.
295
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,240
Showing like.
Pet obesity and time overtime
296
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,520
blah blah blah.
Somehow she could not see the
297
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,160
correlation between the
overweight epidemic starting and
298
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,080
the timing of ultra processed
foods.
299
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,840
She also barely mentioned
anything about a species or no.
300
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,120
She didn't say anything about a
biologically or a species
301
00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:35,760
appropriate diet.
There was one mention it was
302
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,440
like an afterthought.
She gave like, all of these
303
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,280
things, like, I don't know, 15
things that needed to be done to
304
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,440
combat pet obesity.
And the last thing she said with
305
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,840
like a second, like a blip on
the screen was like, maybe we
306
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,360
should consider fresh foods.
I don't know.
307
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:53,720
We need to look into that more.
It wasn't even a definitive.
308
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,000
It was just like, I don't know,
maybe.
309
00:20:55,320 --> 00:21:00,760
And then went on with her talk.
It was very, very short sighted.
310
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,680
And the idea that just a
reduction in calories is going
311
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,120
to do it is asinine to me as a
health coach or just, I don't
312
00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:10,360
know, as a human walking this
planet, understanding how
313
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:15,480
inflammation plays a key role in
everything and how kibble is the
314
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,200
most inflammatory food that we
could be feeding our pets
315
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,760
believe, yeah, pretty much the
most inflammatory food that we
316
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:22,080
could possibly be feeding our
pets.
317
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,440
But so anyway, AFCO was very
frustrating this year.
318
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,920
It's a lot of just sitting there
being bored, and every once in a
319
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,600
while you're like, Oh my God,
did I just hear what I heard?
320
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,360
That's the AFCO meeting.
But the reality is we need more
321
00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:42,720
consumers there.
We need a bigger presence.
322
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:48,280
We need to let people know that
we actually care in a meaningful
323
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,400
way.
You know, one thing that did
324
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,520
happen this year that I'm very
grateful for.
325
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,120
So 2024 I had to pay $500 to
attend.
326
00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:02,160
They reduce the fee for
consumers to $250 this year.
327
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:07,360
And so I feel like, and that was
that took a lot of talking.
328
00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:11,640
Like Susan had to really push,
Kathy Doctor, Kathy Alanovi had
329
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,400
to really push.
And I think they listened and
330
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,080
they're like, OK, well, let's
see, let's give it a go.
331
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:22,120
And I know you know, Cara with
Rawala Adventure, she also came
332
00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:24,400
this year.
So she had the benefit of paying
333
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,920
half what I paid last year to
go.
334
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,400
And then of course, you have
travel, you know, airfare and
335
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,200
hotel and all of that, that has
to be paid as well.
336
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,360
So it's not cheap.
And so I get why people don't
337
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:37,880
go, but and it's boring and it's
frustrating.
338
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:42,840
But when we don't attend, the
only like they get to do what
339
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:47,680
they want and they get to look
and say, well, you're not
340
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,120
attending so you obviously don't
care.
341
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,720
And that's one of the biggest
like takeaways for me is like,
342
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,600
no, it's not fun.
And no, I am not happy about the
343
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:05,080
things I'm hearing, but I have
every intention to continue
344
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:10,440
showing up because I do care.
And I, I don't know, that's just
345
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,240
my way, my message, especially
to healthy pet food
346
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,200
manufacturers, please show up as
well.
347
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,720
Some of them do, but not all of
them.
348
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,920
And you know, please show up
because what you do matters.
349
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:27,400
Consumers, please show up.
We are the biggest percentage
350
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,800
that is affected by this and
we're not showing up.
351
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,800
And no, they don't make it easy.
They do not make it easy.
352
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,520
They don't want us there.
That's exactly why we have to be
353
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,600
there.
So I hope I didn't ramble too
354
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,520
much, but that's kind of the
highlights from the AFCO 2025
355
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,680
Annual Annual meeting.
Let me know if you have any
356
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:50,040
questions about that and let me
know if any of this frustrates
357
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,160
you as much as it frustrates me.
I don't know.
358
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,360
I know that like these AFCO
updates, this is just a second
359
00:23:55,360 --> 00:24:00,120
one, but they're, they tend to
be like the ones that people
360
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:03,520
don't get into as far as
episodes go as much as other
361
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,160
episodes.
But I just, I mean, it's
362
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,440
important guys.
Like this is this is the
363
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:13,680
regulation and it's still our
only connection to FDACVM at the
364
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,080
moment.
I don't know how that's going to
365
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,800
look moving forward.
I don't think anybody does.
366
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,960
But that's another reason why
I'm attending is to figure out
367
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,680
what this is going to look like
moving forward because we need
368
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:29,440
to know consumers or pets are
being affected by everything
369
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,320
they do.
And so we need to know what
370
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:32,800
they're doing.
So with that, I'm going to go
371
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,160
ahead and end today's episode.
I want to say thank you again to
372
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,240
Legacy Biome for being sponsor
for this week's podcast.
373
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,200
And if you have any questions
about APCO, if you have any
374
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,680
questions about Legacy Biome,
reach out to me.
375
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,520
Instagram is the best way to do
that.
376
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,920
Of course, I'm at the pet
parenting reset guys.
377
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:53,080
I just can't wait for next week.
We have another incredible guest
378
00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:57,040
coming next week and I have so
many more ahead for the rest of
379
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,440
the year for you guys.
With that, please give your pet
380
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,080
some extra love from me today.
And here is a message from
381
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,880
Legacy Biome one more time.
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already know that I talk.
All the time about.
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Needing to stop as much.
As we possibly can feeding our
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fur babies garbage, for lack of
a better word.
385
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That's what we talked about here
a lot.
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And again, doing the best we
can.
387
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That is the message.
Above any and everything else,
388
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the more we learn, the more we
know we need to make some
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changes and this episode is
powered by Legacy Biome.
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is.
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Wrestling with chronic diarrhea,
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Straight to your home from the
most.
00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:05,280
The American Association of Feed
Control Officials, 2025 annual.
2
00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:09,280
Meeting was earlier.
In August and I attended again
3
00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,400
this year and so today's episode
we're kind of running down some
4
00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:14,960
of my takeaways from this year's
meeting.
5
00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,560
If you are new here, thank you
so much for being here.
6
00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:19,880
My name is Jessica.
I am a certified canine
7
00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,920
nutritionist and holistic pet
health coach and this is the Pet
8
00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,440
Parenting Reset where I bring
you all kinds of incredible
9
00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:31,560
information for making better
choices for your pets, for their
10
00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:35,840
health and for their happiness
or hopefully an extended life,
11
00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:41,480
but certainly a healthier life.
With that, let's jump into AFCO.
12
00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,840
So AFCO is not a regulatory
body.
13
00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,840
We talk about this all the time
on the podcast they provide.
14
00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,880
They have been contracted for, I
don't know, over 100 years,
15
00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:57,480
something like that to by the
FDA, excuse me, by the FDA too,
16
00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:03,760
provide guidelines for not just
pet food, but feed, which is why
17
00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,360
it's the association of feed
control officials.
18
00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:11,400
So all you know, livestock feed,
all the things, they cover it
19
00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:12,200
all.
And.
20
00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,280
So it's a crazy time.
It's a crazy, crazy time.
21
00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,560
We've talked a little bit about
the Per Act in the past.
22
00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:19,800
If you've missed those episodes,
you can certainly go back to
23
00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:21,200
them.
And the Per Act is still in
24
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,560
Congress.
But it is basics.
25
00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,320
It's dissolving the memorandum
of understanding, our MOU
26
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:33,040
between FDACVM, which is the
Center for Veterinary Medicine
27
00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:38,560
at the FDA, Food and Drug
Administration with AFCO that
28
00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,120
has been in place for a very,
very long time.
29
00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:47,320
Some of the things that were
talked about this year were kind
30
00:01:47,320 --> 00:01:51,560
of follow up from last year
because last year was like, Oh
31
00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,400
my gosh, what is happening?
Like people in the room were
32
00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,520
silent because nobody knew what
was going on, what is happening.
33
00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,320
And I think we're still kind of
in that place.
34
00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:04,240
But AFCO is definitely grasping
to remain relevant and the FDA
35
00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,840
is saying that they are still
going to work with AFCO, just
36
00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,560
not in the same ways.
Anyway, we're going to get into
37
00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,400
all of that really quickly.
I want to present to you a
38
00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,320
really incredible product that I
have been using for Kim, and I
39
00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:20,440
want to say thank you because
without sponsors, this podcast
40
00:02:20,440 --> 00:05:23,520
may not continue.
OK, so welcome back.
41
00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,560
And so the AFCO 2025 Annual
Meeting opened up with a keynote
42
00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:34,760
speaker, Timothy Shell, who is
the acting FDACVM director.
43
00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,200
Some of the things he said.
So first of all, he said a lot
44
00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,000
without saying anything, which
is always interesting because
45
00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:41,680
politicians kind of have a knack
for that.
46
00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,200
And he definitely, there was a
lot of political speech speak at
47
00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:50,160
this AFCO meeting all around
because so FDACVM actually
48
00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:54,080
brought in, I think it was over
20 people to the meeting.
49
00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,080
It was a very well attended
meeting.
50
00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,400
It was in Omaha this year, which
actually was a really cute
51
00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,000
little city.
Cara and I, Cara from Rawpaw
52
00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:06,040
Adventures and I did a live.
We were supposed to do 2, but we
53
00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:07,400
ran out of time on the second
day.
54
00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:11,480
We did a live on the first day
to kind of recap what we heard
55
00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,160
that day.
So that was super fun.
56
00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,280
But some of the things he did
say is that he was speaking
57
00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:19,080
specifically about color
additives.
58
00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,360
And what he said is that what
happens in the human space will
59
00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,720
be mirrored in the animal space.
So for example, the red dye, the
60
00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,600
the one red dye that has been
banned and they've given, I
61
00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,200
don't know how many years to get
that out of human food that is
62
00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,960
going to be mirrored in the pet
space.
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00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,760
I don't know any more than that.
But it sounds like their
64
00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,000
intention.
Is that any anything happening
65
00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,400
in the human food space as far
as like banning additives,
66
00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,680
banning colors, dyes, banning
things that are in food that
67
00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:55,520
that is going to translate into
pet food, which is a really good
68
00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:57,520
thing in my opinion.
Hopefully they follow through
69
00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:58,880
with that.
That's obviously something he
70
00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,640
just said out loud and was I
don't know if it's on paper
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00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,720
anywhere.
And then of course he he just
72
00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,840
made note, made mention that the
grass system that generally
73
00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,680
recognizes safe system is
obviously something that is a
74
00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,400
big deal right now.
That is being talked about by
75
00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:20,120
the Health and Human Services
Secretary, Secretary Robert F
76
00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,960
Kennedy Junior, and talking
about looking at this and really
77
00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,520
seeing if it is a good system or
not.
78
00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,760
Timothy Shell seemed to feel
that whatever happens in the
79
00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,360
human space will also take place
in the pet food space, in the
80
00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:37,400
feed control space.
And then they talked about
81
00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:41,040
animal food ingredient
consultation, replacing the AFCO
82
00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,240
MOU.
So this is something that the
83
00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:48,440
FDA will take over, has taken
over from AFCO, which is a big
84
00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:50,240
part of what AFCO did for the
FDA.
85
00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,080
So again, AFCO representatives
kind of grasping at straws and
86
00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,280
we'll talk about a little bit
later on as well.
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00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:00,520
One of the things that I found
most interesting is that
88
00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,200
especially in his in Timothy
Shell's speech, but it was kind
89
00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,440
of throughout and some of the
other speakers saying this as
90
00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:11,760
well, they all said that we were
all there for one common goal
91
00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:16,440
and that goal being to provide
the safest food possible.
92
00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,440
I disagree.
I am not there for that reason.
93
00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,520
I am there because I want the
healthiest food possible.
94
00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:29,120
And so I think that they're
missing the mark a little bit,
95
00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,039
but that is what they think
they're there for.
96
00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,200
That is their goal.
Their goal is to take waste,
97
00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,480
industrial waste, and make it as
safe as possible in their eyes,
98
00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:45,800
for animals to eat.
So that is very disconcerting
99
00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:47,800
for me.
But that's what happened with
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00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,040
that.
There were, gosh, there was so
101
00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,040
much being talked about.
Let's see here, I'm going
102
00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:57,080
through my notes in this book.
So one of the things that I
103
00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:01,440
found interesting, they ratified
a new definition of fish.
104
00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,640
Fish is undecomposed whole fish
or flesh derived from the
105
00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:07,280
skeletal muscle, with or
without.
106
00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,520
Accompanying bone exclusive and
of any.
107
00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,480
Added heads, fends, tails, skin,
bones, and viscera, except in
108
00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,600
such amounts as might occur
unavoidably and processing.
109
00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,120
It shall be suitable for use in
animal food.
110
00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,360
It is intended for use in animal
food as a source of protein,
111
00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,560
consistent with good feeding
practices.
112
00:09:25,560 --> 00:09:28,400
If it bears a name descriptive
of its kind, it must correspond
113
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,760
there too.
So again, one of the things that
114
00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:35,280
I don't like, because I work
with someone, I wouldn't want to
115
00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,960
feed this to my family.
That also means my pets.
116
00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,680
But I work with so many animals
that have sensitivities and to
117
00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:47,040
allow people to allow
manufacturers to just put fish
118
00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,360
on a label is not at all
transparent.
119
00:09:50,560 --> 00:09:54,640
Now it does say if it bears a
name descriptive of its kind, it
120
00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:59,920
must correspond there too.
Meaning that if a particular
121
00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:04,360
fish is defined, then it has to
say that particular fish.
122
00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,640
I feel like all fish should
should be defined.
123
00:10:06,680 --> 00:10:10,000
Like if we don't know what it
is, then why are we feeding it?
124
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:14,160
So just having something that
says fish is very concerning for
125
00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,920
me, but it is obviously allowed
because there is a definition
126
00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,280
for it and you may have seen it
if you looked at ingredient
127
00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,320
labels.
Something else that I find very
128
00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:29,320
interesting that AFCO ratified
the official method for
129
00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:34,080
fluorine, FLUORINE in animal
feed.
130
00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,080
This is an ion selective
electrode method that was
131
00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,480
developed to analyze for
fluoride in animal feed.
132
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,960
But the results of the method
are to be expressed as or
133
00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,640
reported as fluorine.
This means that the method
134
00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,400
actually detects fluoride and
not fluorine.
135
00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,400
Therefore guarantees or
specifications for fluorine are
136
00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,200
actually for fluoride.
Isn't that confusing and they're
137
00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:59,480
just saying OK, well it is what
it is so we'll define it as such
138
00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:02,360
instead of saying no, fix it,
No, fix it.
139
00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,160
That's what I'm saying, no fix
it.
140
00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:10,960
Also anything black soldier fly
larvae and black soldier fly
141
00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:15,880
larvae oil.
These are probably going to be
142
00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,440
very common.
I don't know in pet food, but it
143
00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,600
seems like it they might
eventually because they've been
144
00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,920
ratified in the definition for
AS part of what can be like an
145
00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:28,520
ingredient.
It's an ingredient definition.
146
00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,360
But what's interesting to me,
and if you don't know this, if
147
00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,640
you are not following along,
which nobody is, consumers are
148
00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:40,440
the biggest percentage of people
affected that need
149
00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,680
representation in feed and food
for for pets.
150
00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,640
And yet they have absolutely no
representation and it is
151
00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,520
terrifying.
So you might look at there might
152
00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,160
be like, I don't know, maybe
even an organic certification, I
153
00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:55,960
don't know.
This is speculation on my part
154
00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,840
for a food that has black
soldier fly larvae or black
155
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:03,560
soldier fly larvae oil.
And then you don't know because
156
00:12:03,560 --> 00:12:09,040
the truth is the definition says
that those larvae which are
157
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:14,200
approved to be used in adult dog
and adult cat foods, those
158
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,960
larvae are exclusively fed feed
grade materials.
159
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,240
So even though you might look at
this and say, OK, well it's a,
160
00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,800
it's a healthy protein source,
but those larvae are only fed
161
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:29,160
feed grade materials.
Just like when we talk about
162
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,960
what a cow eats or what a pig
eats and that affecting its
163
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,120
nutrients and that affecting the
energetics and that affecting
164
00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:41,960
you or your pets consuming that
food, same goes with this.
165
00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,520
And so it's not going to be
expressly written.
166
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,120
That's just part of the
definition.
167
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:47,960
And by the way.
Definitions.
168
00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,120
Of ingredients in pet food is
available for purchase.
169
00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,200
They are not free.
You can purchase them as a
170
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,360
consumer.
You have to purchase them as a
171
00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,000
manufacturer.
And I believe it's 250.
172
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,560
Dollars a year.
Something like that.
173
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:03,960
If you want to know what that
is.
174
00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:08,680
So I'm I'm not going to go
through everything that was
175
00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:10,720
talked about obviously at the
AFCO meeting.
176
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,120
Just pulling up some of the big
ones.
177
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:17,560
One of the things that I did
circle is that there was a new
178
00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:22,960
ingredient beta mayonnaise.
I have no idea how to say that
179
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:27,840
word.
It is a strain of bacteria and
180
00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,280
the intended use says utility
information not evaluated for
181
00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,480
grass that generally recognizes
safe system.
182
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:39,400
And then the FDA's letter says
FDA has no questions.
183
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,600
So I'm sure this is very common.
And maybe to somebody else is
184
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,880
like, OK, whatever.
But to me it's saying that like
185
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,360
not even evaluated in the
generally recognized safe
186
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,720
system.
And the FDA is like, OK, first
187
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,480
of all, we don't like the grass
system to begin with.
188
00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,440
But then if we're not even using
it, what are we using again?
189
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:04,560
Rent Red dye #3 is going it has
a sunset date of January 1st,
190
00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:08,080
2027.
So it is going to be a withdrawn
191
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,160
ingredient.
And then here we go.
192
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:15,320
OK, so according to the per act,
the FDACVM is going to be the
193
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:20,040
final arbitrator regulating food
safety labels, labeling and
194
00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,280
advertising.
The states will continue
195
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:26,920
testing, working with the FDA,
inspections and education and
196
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,600
they are touting this as
regulatory harmony.
197
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:36,680
Is is specifically what a quote
I heard and the FDA and the FTC
198
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,400
already are.
They're already responsible for
199
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,400
the authority of I can't read my
own handwriting of claims.
200
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:50,280
They codify the language for the
OP, which is the like regulation
201
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,720
book that AFCO created.
So they already codified that
202
00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:55,520
language.
So they're, they're just going
203
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,240
to continue using it basically
they're not going to create
204
00:14:58,240 --> 00:14:59,720
their own.
They're going to say, OK, we've
205
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:01,520
been using this forever.
We're just going to go ahead and
206
00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:06,200
continue using it as our own.
And the states still choose to
207
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,240
work with the FDA.
And then federally they're going
208
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,000
to codify pet food labeling.
So that's kind of like the
209
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,560
highlight of the per act is that
there's going to be like one
210
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:22,280
federal food labeling
regulation, whereas right now
211
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:26,640
every individual states of 50
states have their own, which is
212
00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:28,760
very difficult for
manufacturers, especially small
213
00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:32,200
manufacturers.
So yeah, the the and then they
214
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:36,040
talk, they went back to 19 O 9.
So it has been more than 100
215
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,040
years.
Nineteen O 9 is when AFCO
216
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:45,960
originally started basically
contracting for the FDA and the
217
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,800
whole point.
Of AFCO.
218
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,600
Was to get all of the states on
one page and it has been over
219
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,360
100 years and they haven't been
able to do that.
220
00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,920
So it does kind of make sense
that the federal government
221
00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:00,160
wants to take it back over.
So let's get to the second day
222
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:01,360
at AFCO.
Yeah.
223
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:06,240
So they were supposed to give
updates on HPP because there's
224
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,800
no definition for HPP.
They were supposed to give a
225
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,840
definition for jerky and still
has not been defined.
226
00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,480
And they're supposed to be a
definition for gently cooked,
227
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,320
which is also not defined.
None of that has happened.
228
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,440
They requested work groups.
They don't have official work
229
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,320
groups.
What's interesting with all of
230
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,880
this is that we use HPP in human
food manufacturing.
231
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:30,880
So I feel like there should be
some definition somewhere of it.
232
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,000
I don't know.
And then jerky, like how long
233
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,120
has jerky been sold?
And there's no definition for
234
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,000
it.
That's kind of crazy as well.
235
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,720
And then gently cooked.
So I think along the same lines
236
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:45,760
as as and then the common food
index, we added dates, pumpkin
237
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,000
seeds, honeydew, cantaloupe and
spinach.
238
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,760
What was really funny was
somebody was like, I'm shocked
239
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,000
we added honeydew in cantaloupe
because who knows what that
240
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,160
actually is.
And I was like, what like don't
241
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,080
we know about?
Actually, I don't know, maybe
242
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:01,560
I'm wrong on that.
You can let me know.
243
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,640
But also they brought up, which
is so silly.
244
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,800
They brought up food versus feed
again.
245
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,040
Now, the reason I say this is so
silly is because it's like, yes,
246
00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:16,839
as a consumer, I absolutely want
to look at this again.
247
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:21,000
But as like AFCO, this is done,
this is handled.
248
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:25,440
This is, they've already decided
that these two words are to be
249
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,119
used interchangeably.
So anywhere you see the word
250
00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:32,280
food, they mean feed and vice
versa is what they're saying.
251
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,200
These two words are
interchangeable.
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As far as AFCO is concerned,
that's handled.
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That's done.
I don't like it, but it's
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handled and it's done.
So that's why I say it's silly.
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But somebody actually got on the
mic and said, who even cares
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00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:50,200
about this anymore?
And I was like, wow, like, tell
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00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:56,520
me, tell me there are no
consumers on these panels
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00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,000
without telling me there are no
consumers on these panels,
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00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,800
right?
Because even though consumers
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are the largest group affected
by pet food and feed regulation,
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00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,880
they have no, no say.
They have no presence in
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00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,960
regulation whatsoever.
And it drives me up the wall.
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00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,960
And manufacturers, even even
healthy pet food manufacturers
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don't care either.
They're like, leave it the way
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00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,160
it is because they can use feed
grade ingredients and still call
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it food.
And some of our some of the
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foods that we feed, some of the
foods that I even recommend are
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technically they have feed grade
ingredients on them because this
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00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:43,640
is just the way of the world for
pet food.
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But some of the.
Reasons that were given for not
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00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:54,240
going back to redefine this is
that one, it's too much work. 2
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00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,400
Does anybody care?
That was actually asked and then
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00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,200
it was admitted by almost
everybody that yes, it is very
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00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,240
confusing, but Nope, they are
not fixing it.
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So pet food manufacturers may be
fine with that, industry may be
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00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,240
fine with that.
Feed control may be fine with
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that.
As a consumer, I'm not fine with
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that.
I want to know the difference.
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I want, I want a pet food
package or a pet feed package to
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00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,320
say if it is food grade or if it
is feed grade.
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That's what I want.
So on the second day, to kind of
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00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,160
close out the day, we had a
presentation from Doctor Kathy
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00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:36,400
Gross.
She is a PhD diplomat from the
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00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,320
American College of Animal
Nutrition.
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00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,840
She recently retired after a 32
year career at Hills Pet
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00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:46,560
Nutrition and she gave a
presentation on pet obesity.
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00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,680
And here are some of my
takeaways from her talk.
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00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,520
She still believes that reducing
reducing calories is the way to
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00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,520
combat this, that reducing
calories will keep pets a
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00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,960
healthy weight.
I think this is a very short
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00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,800
sighted argument.
Obesity is an inflammatory
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00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:06,280
disease and she did not talk
about that and there was a lot
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00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,560
of irony going on.
She also could not seem even
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00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,320
though she had trends and graphs
and.
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00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,240
Showing like.
Pet obesity and time overtime
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00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,520
blah blah blah.
Somehow she could not see the
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00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,160
correlation between the
overweight epidemic starting and
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00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,080
the timing of ultra processed
foods.
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00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,840
She also barely mentioned
anything about a species or no.
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00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,120
She didn't say anything about a
biologically or a species
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00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:35,760
appropriate diet.
There was one mention it was
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00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,440
like an afterthought.
She gave like, all of these
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00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,280
things, like, I don't know, 15
things that needed to be done to
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00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,440
combat pet obesity.
And the last thing she said with
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00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,840
like a second, like a blip on
the screen was like, maybe we
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00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,360
should consider fresh foods.
I don't know.
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00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:53,720
We need to look into that more.
It wasn't even a definitive.
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00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,000
It was just like, I don't know,
maybe.
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00:20:55,320 --> 00:21:00,760
And then went on with her talk.
It was very, very short sighted.
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00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,680
And the idea that just a
reduction in calories is going
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00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,120
to do it is asinine to me as a
health coach or just, I don't
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00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:10,360
know, as a human walking this
planet, understanding how
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00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:15,480
inflammation plays a key role in
everything and how kibble is the
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00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,200
most inflammatory food that we
could be feeding our pets
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00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,760
believe, yeah, pretty much the
most inflammatory food that we
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00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:22,080
could possibly be feeding our
pets.
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00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,440
But so anyway, AFCO was very
frustrating this year.
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00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,920
It's a lot of just sitting there
being bored, and every once in a
319
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,600
while you're like, Oh my God,
did I just hear what I heard?
320
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,360
That's the AFCO meeting.
But the reality is we need more
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00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:42,720
consumers there.
We need a bigger presence.
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00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:48,280
We need to let people know that
we actually care in a meaningful
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00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,400
way.
You know, one thing that did
324
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,520
happen this year that I'm very
grateful for.
325
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,120
So 2024 I had to pay $500 to
attend.
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00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:02,160
They reduce the fee for
consumers to $250 this year.
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00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:07,360
And so I feel like, and that was
that took a lot of talking.
328
00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:11,640
Like Susan had to really push,
Kathy Doctor, Kathy Alanovi had
329
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,400
to really push.
And I think they listened and
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00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,080
they're like, OK, well, let's
see, let's give it a go.
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00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:22,120
And I know you know, Cara with
Rawala Adventure, she also came
332
00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:24,400
this year.
So she had the benefit of paying
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00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,920
half what I paid last year to
go.
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00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,400
And then of course, you have
travel, you know, airfare and
335
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,200
hotel and all of that, that has
to be paid as well.
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00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,360
So it's not cheap.
And so I get why people don't
337
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:37,880
go, but and it's boring and it's
frustrating.
338
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:42,840
But when we don't attend, the
only like they get to do what
339
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:47,680
they want and they get to look
and say, well, you're not
340
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,120
attending so you obviously don't
care.
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00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,720
And that's one of the biggest
like takeaways for me is like,
342
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,600
no, it's not fun.
And no, I am not happy about the
343
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:05,080
things I'm hearing, but I have
every intention to continue
344
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:10,440
showing up because I do care.
And I, I don't know, that's just
345
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,240
my way, my message, especially
to healthy pet food
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00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,200
manufacturers, please show up as
well.
347
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,720
Some of them do, but not all of
them.
348
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,920
And you know, please show up
because what you do matters.
349
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:27,400
Consumers, please show up.
We are the biggest percentage
350
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,800
that is affected by this and
we're not showing up.
351
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,800
And no, they don't make it easy.
They do not make it easy.
352
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,520
They don't want us there.
That's exactly why we have to be
353
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,600
there.
So I hope I didn't ramble too
354
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,520
much, but that's kind of the
highlights from the AFCO 2025
355
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,680
Annual Annual meeting.
Let me know if you have any
356
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:50,040
questions about that and let me
know if any of this frustrates
357
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,160
you as much as it frustrates me.
I don't know.
358
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,360
I know that like these AFCO
updates, this is just a second
359
00:23:55,360 --> 00:24:00,120
one, but they're, they tend to
be like the ones that people
360
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:03,520
don't get into as far as
episodes go as much as other
361
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,160
episodes.
But I just, I mean, it's
362
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,440
important guys.
Like this is this is the
363
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:13,680
regulation and it's still our
only connection to FDACVM at the
364
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,080
moment.
I don't know how that's going to
365
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,800
look moving forward.
I don't think anybody does.
366
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,960
But that's another reason why
I'm attending is to figure out
367
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,680
what this is going to look like
moving forward because we need
368
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:29,440
to know consumers or pets are
being affected by everything
369
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,320
they do.
And so we need to know what
370
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:32,800
they're doing.
So with that, I'm going to go
371
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,160
ahead and end today's episode.
I want to say thank you again to
372
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,240
Legacy Biome for being sponsor
for this week's podcast.
373
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,200
And if you have any questions
about APCO, if you have any
374
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,680
questions about Legacy Biome,
reach out to me.
375
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,520
Instagram is the best way to do
that.
376
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,920
Of course, I'm at the pet
parenting reset guys.
377
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:53,080
I just can't wait for next week.
We have another incredible guest
378
00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:57,040
coming next week and I have so
many more ahead for the rest of
379
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,440
the year for you guys.
With that, please give your pet
380
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,080
some extra love from me today.
And here is a message from
381
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,880
Legacy Biome one more time.
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382
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,040
already know that I talk.
All the time about.
383
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Needing to stop as much.
As we possibly can feeding our
384
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,560
fur babies garbage, for lack of
a better word.
385
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,040
That's what we talked about here
a lot.
386
00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:19,560
And again, doing the best we
can.
387
00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:23,120
That is the message.
Above any and everything else,
388
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:26,040
the more we learn, the more we
know we need to make some
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changes and this episode is
powered by Legacy Biome.
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Wrestling with chronic diarrhea,
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