213. Fear Free in the ER: Triage, Handling & Pain Control That Reduce Pet Trauma

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Welcome back, pet parent.
I am excited for today's guest.

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We're talking about a couple of
things that we have never talked

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about on this show before.
And so let me go ahead and

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welcome Doctor Zach Pilasov with
us on the show today.

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Thank you so much for being here
with us.

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How are you doing?
I'm doing good, yeah.

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But you know, I've been watching
a lot of the episodes you guys

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have been out.
So, you know, so far it seems

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like it's been, you know, pretty
successful.

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We've got some good people that
have come on here.

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So I'm happy to kind of be able
to contribute.

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Yeah.
No, I appreciate it so much.

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So you do a couple of things
that I have not talked to

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anybody about in the past.
One is emergency veterinary

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medicine and the other is fear
free medicine.

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And so I'd like to talk about
both of those.

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But before we get into any of
that, I just like to hear a

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little bit about you and like
the back story and how you

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became a veterinarian and do
what you do all.

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Right, pet parents, you already
know that I talk all the time

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about needing to stop as much as
we possibly can, feeding our fur

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babies garbage, for lack of a
better word.

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That's what we talked about here
a lot.

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And again, doing the best we
can.

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That is the message above any
and everything else.

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The more we learn, the more we
know we need to make some

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changes.
That is legacy biome.com, L e.g.

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A/C, Y biome.com and get some
for your pet.

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And by the way, let me know how
it goes.

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You know me.
You can always reach out to me

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on Instagram.
I'm here to talk to you all the

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time.
I want to know.

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Let me know about it.
To try Legacy Biome for your

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dog, visit legacybiome.com and
use code TPPR 10.

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That's TPPR 10 for 10% off.
I'd just like to hear a little

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bit about you and like the back
story and how you became a

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veterinarian and do what you do.
Yeah, for sure.

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So, you know, so at least, you
know, becoming a vet and, and

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starting at the very beginning,
you know, you know, I've

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definitely can resonate with a
lot of people out there that

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feel like they understand
animals better than humans.

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I don't know, human behavior
sometimes super confusing.

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So a lot easier to understand.
So, you know, it was always kind

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of like one of the plans in
life.

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So, but what as a vet, you know,
I started out pretty much like,

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I'd say almost every single vet,
you know, kind of conventional

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route, conventional vet school
and coming out of school had a

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plan.
And where I'm at right now is

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definitely a very opposite or
different plan than at least I

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thought I initially envisioned
where I was going.

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So initially I had thought I was
going to be a veterinary

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neurologist.
So that was the path I went down

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and started with and then found
out on that path that it

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probably just wasn't for me.
And simultaneously, I actually

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started to find an interest in
cannabis as a potential

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therapeutic.
And so that was the first thing

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that opened my eyes a little bit
to the idea of integrative and

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holistic therapies that could be
complementary to and work well

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with the things I've just been
taught for four years at Med

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school.
And so, you know, through that

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route of kind of finding that
path was maybe not the one I was

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intended for.
In addition to starting to

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become a little bit obsessed
with the idea of cannabis as

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being something we should think
about as part of treatment plans

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in the right setting, then that
was what what pretty much opened

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the doors for me as thinking
that there was maybe more than

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one way to go about things.
And so through that theory, then

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that open mindedness allows me
anyone pretty much to kind of

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start to see that there are
other options out there.

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It's more about the proper usage
of it and timing.

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You know, there's a time and
place for everything.

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And so that's a model that has
allowed me to find a way to do

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both, you know, your classic
standard Western medicine and

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complement to some more
integrative holistic approaches

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that I think makes sense in
other situations.

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Yeah, I, well, I'm glad you
brought that up because I mean,

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obviously I have had people
wanted to talk about cannabis or

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I, I prefer to call it Kimberly.
I'm sorry.

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My dog, she's just going to take
advantage of the situation.

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She's going to be my cat, my
cat's food.

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Thank you.
So I, I try to, me personally,

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I, I have been really trying to
kind of shift my vernacular into

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saying full spectrum hemp
extract.

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And there's a lot out there.
I just am of the belief that a

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full spectrum extract is kind of
what is going to be best case

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scenario.
And there are different ways to

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look at it.
I've talked to a couple of

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different people who are, who
are doing full spectrum in

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different ways.
It's very, very interesting to

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me how the endocannabinoid
system being the master system

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of the like, I don't go a night
now without me personally taking

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it and giving it to my dog.
And I wish I were better about

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my cats.
But cats being cats are, you

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know, they just, they are what
they are.

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But how?
So how do you, especially being

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in like emergency medicine, how
do you utilize cannabis with

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your patients?
Well, right now there's so much

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that goes into the cannabis
space and even the the, the hemp

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space, like it's not really
something still that Western

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medicine is OK with.
So I'll just be honest in in the

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emergency setting, I don't
really use it too much.

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But what I often have the
opportunity to do is, you know,

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I'll kind of evaluate how a pet
parent is like talking or what

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they've tried historically.
And if I think that they sound

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like there's someone that is
interested in hearing about some

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options that may make sense
going forward or in the same

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setting could be helpful that we
got a lot of pets nowadays that

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I'd say, you know, in line with
animals that are getting

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allergic skin disease, that a
lot of animals have anxiety

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nowadays for whatever reason in
kind of the same path as humans.

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So, but you know, obviously
anxiety is one thing that really

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works with a lot of pets.
I'm sorry, that has found a lot

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of pets in cannabis or, you
know, full spectrum HEPA,

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something that has worked for a
lot of pets in that situation.

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So a lot of times, you know,
I'll, I'll look for reasons to

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kind of open the door to that
conversation in the emergency

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room.
But in reality, you know, right

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now there's a lot of regulations
that are preventing most

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veterinarians in the country
outside of a couple of states to

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actually discuss that a lot in
the clinical setting.

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And so it's kind of a little bit
of Gray zone where you're

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allowed to not only discuss it,
but more utilize it.

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And so, you know, right now
there's actually only one state

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that actually defines that pet
parents can utilize hemp in

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practice, which is Nevada.
California has a lot of

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regulations that make that help
with kind of discussions and

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recommendations.
And when it comes to the

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medicinal side, But for the most
part, really out of the other 48

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states or so, it's a lot.
It's a juggle and a gamble as to

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what veterinarians can do in the
clinical setting right now with,

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you know, cannabis based
product, whether it is medicinal

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or full spectrum.
So if veterinarians are so like

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they have their hands tied
almost, then we kind of have to

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utilize.
I know there's one company that

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recently got a letter from the
FDA that I'm so upset about.

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We're going to talk about that
on a on another podcast.

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But, you know, they're just
they're cracking down.

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And granted, you know, there are
arguments to made on to be made

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on both sides with, you know,
making claims and we don't need

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to get political with the FDA.
But it has to be really, really

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difficult to be a veterinarian
and to see something that works

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so well and that you feel like
you can't even talk about it

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with your client.
So, you know, that's a lot of

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stuff I got, you know, 10 plus
supplements that I could

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probably think about that have
been stigmatized for the wrong

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reasons.
Whatever one people in this

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community want to hypothesize.
You know, I have my own theories

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and I think that everyone that
is open minded or looks for

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things that are more natural has
their own theories as to why,

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though a lot of things at work
do get stigmatized and judged

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both in in, you know, I guess
more the media, but also

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politically slight.
There's a hands tied kind of

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situation, you know, in Long
story short.

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So you have to be smart about,
you know, well, first you have

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to educate yourself and, and
understand what you are allowed

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to say and what you are not
allowed to say and what you are

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allowed to do and not allowed to
do.

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And so I did kind of attack that
pretty quickly in the space once

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I, once I knew that that's the
way the game was going to be

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played.
You know, I, I worked pretty

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hard to kind of know what I can
talk about and not talk about.

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And so, but I can see it for
sure that most vets, you know,

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when, when they are hearing a
lot of things about there being

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success stories, but they don't
know what they can legally do.

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And of course, it's, it's, it's
I'm, I'm assuming, you know,

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it's got to be a little bit of a
fear, fearful situation.

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You know, Mets are going to most
often, which rightfully so, are

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going to take kind of the
conservative route behind it.

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Because in vetted medicine,
veterinarians, unfortunately,

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and I found this out myself, are
guilty until proven innocent in

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situations.
So, you know, it's hard for us

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to stick our neck out a lot of
times.

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And when it does happen and we
try to do the right thing

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sometimes, you know, it, it puts
a lot of risk for our license.

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So, you know, I can I can
understand why a lot of vets are

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still pretty hesitant to talk
about it.

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Yeah, and I, I appreciate that
perspective so much because I

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mean, we talk all the time about
vaccinations and over

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vaccination.
And I personally have been

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chastised by multiple
veterinarians for not doing

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vaccinations.
They don't agree with titer

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testing which just blows my
mind.

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And and then.
Also, you know, flea and tick

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and heartworm and all the, all
the things and I can't, I can't

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tell you that it's going to be
OK if you feed your dog a raw

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food diet, even though you've
been feeding your dog a raw food

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diet for 10 years and they're
perfectly healthy.

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You know, like all of those
things, it drives me up the

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wall.
But I appreciate the the other

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side of that, like where you're
just concerned about your

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license and you want to keep
practicing medicine.

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That really is, I mean, I, I
have, you know, not to get too

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much of it, but I've been
reported multiple times for

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things that always get, they get
dismissed with like no

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consequences from the board.
But it's, you know, people

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nowadays, you know, there's
really good people out there and

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then there's people that have a
different agenda or a different

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mindset.
And so it is as scary, honestly,

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as a veterinarian because that's
your livelihood.

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And so the only thing a lot of
times they that we worry about

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is like, you know, should we do
this?

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Is it worth it in terms of like,
are we going to get backlash or

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is this going to put my life at
risk?

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So, yeah, it's a it's a reason
for why a lot of that's probably

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our table, you know, would take
a conservative approach about

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wanting to be OK with things.
I think there's also other

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factors and, and, and and it's
always independent.

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I'm sorry, individual
independence.

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So, you know, but it is a thing
that I think is on the back of

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most veterinarians minds.
But but yeah, but I'm not right.

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So what is it?
What happened that got you

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interested in cannabis to begin
with?

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Well, so, yeah, so I was
actually in the in my neurologic

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neurology internship at that
time.

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You know, obviously, you know,
kind of mentioned anxiety is

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something that has responded a
lot of times very really to

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cannabis therapies or cannabis
based therapies.

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So I we're getting a lot of pet
parents in though that we're

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also talking about seizure
control as well as pain control.

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You know, in neurology, you
know, there's both, you know,

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the two main sections, brain and
the spinal cord.

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And so we see a lot of pets that
are experiencing obviously

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00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,440
seizure disorders as well as
pain related disorders.

224
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,640
And then third would be, you
know, cancer based diseases.

225
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:45,920
So, you know, those are three
things that have shown a lot of

226
00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,360
promise with cannabis based
therapies.

227
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,280
And so, you know, we were
getting a lot of questions and I

228
00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,200
was getting a lot of questions
and I was like, I can't answer

229
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,880
any of these questions.
So and then I was just curious.

230
00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:57,560
I don't know, I've always been
kind of curious about things

231
00:13:57,560 --> 00:14:00,400
versus writing them off.
And so I started doing a lot of

232
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,360
research, you know, on, you
know, what was happening in the

233
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,400
human space because I always
start with the human space is

234
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,320
kind of something that I've
always found has a little bit

235
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,160
more information that can help
me figure out if something

236
00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:15,120
actually has a legitimate side
or not or if it is a discussion

237
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,640
topic with two different
opposing ends.

238
00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:23,040
And so I found, obviously if you
do a 10 minute search on pub

239
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,320
Med, what's out there, which is
the, you know, 10s of thousands

240
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:27,960
of papers.
And so I was like, oh, wow, this

241
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,200
is pretty concerning that I
never got taught this.

242
00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,720
And so that was kind of the, you
know, the small, the snowflake

243
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,160
that led to the snowball effect.
And, and since then that was

244
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,000
really where I was like, oh
gosh, I need to understand this

245
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,360
stuff because it looks like the
medicine space has been secretly

246
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,320
utilizing this since 1960s.
Maybe that, well, maybe research

247
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,680
since 1960s, but 1990s, you
know, it's when the utilization

248
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:52,960
ramped up, the research ramped
up maybe in the 60s.

249
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,000
So we were far behind in that
medicine and I wanted to try to

250
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:57,720
catch up.
Yeah.

251
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,200
Yeah.
Well, until, you know,

252
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,920
pharmaceutical companies figure
out a way to profit off of it,

253
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:05,360
they're not going to let us know
about it.

254
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,760
Yeah.
That's my opinion, yeah.

255
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,160
What's interesting is that it
does so many things.

256
00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:17,080
I definitely have used it for
clients with seizure disorders.

257
00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:21,040
I absolutely use it for anxiety
like you talked about.

258
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,360
And then I have used it for
pain.

259
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,560
I had a cat.
I had to let him go last year.

260
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:33,320
It was interesting because he in
March, he had his annual, you

261
00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,680
know, senior blood panel.
Everything looked great.

262
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:41,000
And within two months he broke
his leg and that was the first

263
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,160
indication I had.
I took him in to get an X-ray

264
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:47,560
and he had him angiosarcoma and
it was like wow, out of nowhere.

265
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:54,680
And I actually, you know,
actually got THC that I mixed in

266
00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,480
with a full spectrum hemp
extract.

267
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,240
So I was like increasing the
amount of THC he was getting to

268
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,040
manage his pain and that is what
he got did.

269
00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:03,520
I didn't do any other
medication.

270
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:07,120
There were no pharmaceuticals
and it was more than enough to

271
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,760
manage his symptoms, his pain,
because he was totally fine

272
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:12,480
like.
I mean, you know, you see this

273
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:14,800
all the time, animals.
Are like, they act totally fine.

274
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:16,360
It's just the pain that gets
them.

275
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,920
And so it was more than enough
to manage his pain and so much.

276
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,960
So I was actually just telling
somebody this, this morning, his

277
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:28,080
last, the day that I had
scheduled for him to be

278
00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,640
euthanized because he was just
with food and everything.

279
00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:33,640
You know, how it, how it gets at
the end of life.

280
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,120
You're like, once they once they
decide they're not going to eat,

281
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:40,240
you're just done.
And that day I gave him quite a

282
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,120
bit and he thought he was
Superman.

283
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,720
He was jumping off of like 4
feet, you know, furniture.

284
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,880
And I'm like, dude, you still
have a broken leg.

285
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:52,560
But he was feeling so good.
Well, that's good.

286
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,680
I'm glad he had a fun, you know?
Yeah, yeah.

287
00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,520
He, he was feeling totally fine.
He was like, there's nothing

288
00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,880
wrong.
But I mean, I think, and, and I

289
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:07,160
say that like, obviously in the
moment it was horrible.

290
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,839
I was a disaster.
I was a mess, you know, just

291
00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:12,880
having to let him go.
But you know, I can look back on

292
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:19,160
it and say that that gave me
Peace of Mind that like, he was

293
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,599
fine.
He he, if his body could have

294
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:25,920
held out any longer, he would
have been fine for quite a while

295
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,440
longer just on this without
pharmaceutical intervention.

296
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,480
And to me, it's just like one of
those, one of those stories

297
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:37,720
that's like, look what we can do
with what nature gives us and

298
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,560
not have to rely on, you know,
anything else.

299
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,160
Fortunately, my veterinarian at
the time was like fully on

300
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:45,640
board.
She was, she was so sweet.

301
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,040
She was like, I'll write you a
prescription for anything you

302
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,360
want, you know, to keep him
comfortable and do all the

303
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:53,560
things.
But I was like, no, I think

304
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:55,320
we're good.
I think, I think, I think we've

305
00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,160
got this, you know, I mean, he
was already 17 years old.

306
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,760
So it's not even like, you know,
yeah, it wasn't like, you know,

307
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,440
a 2 year old cat that you're
like, I need to save them.

308
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,640
They have a whole life ahead.
He's like, he was already 17

309
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,480
years old.
And so I wasn't going to like

310
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,520
amputate or anything.
And yeah, yeah.

311
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:19,400
But anyway, I just think it's
such an amazing, amazing tool

312
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,160
that I do wish that, but with,
you know, the federal

313
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,520
regulations kind of kind of
clamped down on the states.

314
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,800
And then the states are like,
no, you can't.

315
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,840
You just can't.
So I hate that, but I appreciate

316
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,760
that that's kind of what drew
you into learning more about,

317
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,520
you know, what holistic
modalities are out there.

318
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,640
And one of the more interesting
things that again, I haven't had

319
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:46,080
anybody come on the show and
talk about is being fear free in

320
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,680
the I don't know if there's any
way to be like 100% fear free,

321
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:56,160
especially considering like our
pets just have a sense about

322
00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:00,600
them that we kind of don't tune
into a lot cats.

323
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,080
Oh my goodness, bring in a cat
even into like a cat only

324
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,080
clinic.
It's just like they're they're

325
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:08,600
they're going crazy.
But how?

326
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,840
Tell me a little bit more about
like what fear free is and how

327
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,000
like what people can expect when
they're looking for a fearfully

328
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,240
fear free clinic.
Say it 8 times over and see what

329
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,240
happened.
No, I know it's like it's a

330
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:28,280
tongue tire, but tongue anyway,
So but yeah, I mean, so you

331
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:31,480
know, honestly the fear free
aspect is something that it

332
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,680
just, you know, learning about
kind of things like that.

333
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,040
Well, actually, honestly, for
me, just start off, it was

334
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,440
honestly, it made so much sense
because I've really only

335
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,960
understood animal kind of
behaviors and patterns since I

336
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,280
was younger in the human side,
like I said earlier, is they're

337
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:47,760
honest to me.
So for me, it kind of made a lot

338
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,000
of sense when I was learning
about.

339
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,280
I know a lot of people, you
know, kind of talk about it, but

340
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:57,000
utilizing it in practice is
actually a lot more difficult

341
00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:02,600
because you know, like you said,
like it's a, it's an uphill

342
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,120
battle from the moment that they
get there.

343
00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:08,760
In most situations.
You're working in a very a place

344
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:13,160
that has so many.
Different stimuli that's it's

345
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,640
hard to you know say like oh
this is going to be a comforting

346
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,440
environment as best as I can do
you know, not take not take into

347
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,000
account the fact that, you know,
most of the pets that I see are,

348
00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:26,840
you know sick or uncomfortable
to some degree.

349
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,800
You know, given that
emergencies, what the fear free

350
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:36,480
side of it does really to me is
provides as much comfort,

351
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:41,400
emotional comfort to a pet that
we are here to try and help as

352
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,760
best we can, you know, and so
there's a lot of things that you

353
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,600
can kind of discuss and more the
focal aspect of the specific

354
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,240
things you can do in a situation
to try to, you know, carry out

355
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,120
that goal.
But the goal for me when it

356
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:55,040
comes to fear free is like
trying to express to a pet,

357
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,520
obviously non verbally, that you
know, you're here to try and

358
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,160
help them as best you can and to
hurt them as little as you can

359
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,880
in that process.
You know, the emergency room is

360
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:10,000
insane environment that I find
comforting, but probably no one

361
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,760
minimal people else do.
So you know, So what we you

362
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:15,640
know, when we're trying to take
a fear free approach, we're

363
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,720
really trying to understand, you
know, the the mental, physical

364
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,920
and emotional aspect of a pet.
At least that's what I'm trying

365
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:22,760
to do.
And, you know, figure out which

366
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,520
one of those is really the main
factor as to maybe what's

367
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:31,880
causing this pet to a fearful
experience at the moment and to

368
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,720
address that as best we can.
So, and you know, that's, I like

369
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:37,640
to break it down like that
because there are, you know,

370
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,000
those are the three general
categories that whether a human

371
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:45,440
or a pet is going to, you know,
is going to be where they're

372
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,160
experiencing anxiety to some
degree.

373
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,040
And really that's what fear free
is.

374
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:54,040
It's just I'm trusting a pet's,
you know, I guess anxiety in a

375
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,120
way that they're creating this
hyperalgesic state.

376
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,960
And how can we, you know, kind
of mitigate that?

377
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:03,240
So you know, whether you know,
you know, that's understanding

378
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,640
that you know, they're better
with their owners in the room

379
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,160
when they're better without
their own as a room.

380
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,240
Each of that's, you know, a
situation, whether they have a

381
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:17,440
lot of built up anxiety pre to
the to the exam or pre to, you

382
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,440
know, coming into the hospital.
You know, that's a lot of

383
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,040
discussion that comes up,
whether you know, they are an

384
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,400
animal that's in chronic pain.
And that's kind of the reason

385
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,000
that, you know, they do
experience a lot of fear when

386
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,120
they go to the vet because when
they go to that cranking on

387
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:33,000
things, you know, and you're
trying to figure out where the

388
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,640
problem is.
And so, you know, it's kind of

389
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,480
understanding for me, like where
is a pet stressed or feeling

390
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,600
anxious and addressing it out of
those 3 categories and doing the

391
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,320
best you can in situation.
Because obviously, you know, my

392
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,040
team has a job to do as well.
You know, we're trying to, you

393
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,840
know, solve a problem and, you
know, kind of understanding that

394
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,680
this pet is a living creature
with thoughts and feelings and

395
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,280
emotions, but at the same time
getting the job done too.

396
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,320
And so, you know, you do your
best and you have, you know, a

397
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,560
lot of tools in your brain when
you're trying to do that as best

398
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:04,360
you can.
But I think the teams that I

399
00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:06,840
work with understand that that's
something that I prioritize,

400
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,760
that it's not just about getting
a pet and their family in and

401
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,840
out the door with meds or with
tests on.

402
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,280
Like, you know, understanding
that this is a living creature

403
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,440
too, That, you know, we should
try to make it as least

404
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,080
stressful and as positively
experienced as possible so that,

405
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:22,600
you know, if they don't have to
come back next time.

406
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,520
That, you know, they're not
terrified, that they understand

407
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,040
to some degree that we're trying
to help and that we're allies.

408
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,440
Yeah.
And I think, well, I know it

409
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,840
actually starts at home.
It starts with a pet parent.

410
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,160
You know, getting in the car
should be for more than just

411
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:40,840
going to the veterinarian's
office, right?

412
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,560
So like, you're not making that
experience bad all the time.

413
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,360
And for cats, you know, making
sure they're used to their

414
00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:53,040
carrier or for a dog, like if,
if you know, they need to be

415
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,320
used to being in a crate, right?
Like, because you just never

416
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,400
know when, when they're going to
have to be put in a, in a

417
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,800
kennel, in a, in a vet office
or, and, and that they're

418
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,840
comfortable being touched.
It really starts at home.

419
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,800
Like you have to be able to to
do these things with your Pets

420
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:13,120
at Home first so that it does
get a little bit easier when

421
00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:15,520
you're in a vet office.
But some of the things I've seen

422
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,480
and I'm just curious, like what
it translates like for you,

423
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,240
especially in emergency
medicine.

424
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,400
I've seen obviously there are
cats only clinics.

425
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,320
I've seen clinics where like
literally one side just has cat

426
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:29,960
rooms.
The other side just has dog

427
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:31,760
rooms.
There's like, you know,

428
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,760
pheromone diffusers.
What kind of things are are you

429
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,640
utilizing there?
Yeah, no, actually, I mean,

430
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,560
those are some really good ones
that we that a lot of then

431
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,240
officers will try to utilize
them in the first, like you

432
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,000
said, is, is basically
understanding that cats are not

433
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,960
small dogs and that anything
that's not a cat or a dog maybe

434
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,680
prey to one of those two.
So, you know, if you do work

435
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,360
with animals that are different
species that, you know,

436
00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:57,800
understanding the
interconnectivity between them,

437
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,920
not alone, not, you know, not
just that they're pets and

438
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,120
you're not pets.
So, you know, that's a really

439
00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:08,800
actually what I think is a super
important situation to

440
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:13,320
understand and, and knowing
that, you know, if, if that's if

441
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,720
you are commingling different
types of species in the front of

442
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,200
the the hospital or in the back
of the hospital, that they

443
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,520
should be separated.
So not only just in the front

444
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,640
aspect, but in the back.
You know, I've worked with many

445
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,560
clinics where there's just a
specific cat ward or there's a

446
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:30,280
specific cat exam room that will
be much quieter, that will try

447
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,120
to be soundproof so that they're
not hearing the dogs barking all

448
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:34,640
the time.
I mean, if they don't have that,

449
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,240
you know, a lot of again, that
people have worked with me that,

450
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,280
you know, that I usually try to
put cats in the back of the

451
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,080
clinic if they're not, you know,
obviously very sick.

452
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:43,320
You know, we don't keep tapping
them.

453
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,240
But if it's possible, you know,
if there isn't another room or a

454
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,800
cat where that I can separate
them that, you know, the anxious

455
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,240
cats or the scared cats.
Not all cats are scared.

456
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,040
And actually we have that's my
show this week actually that

457
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:55,760
were like we were like, wow,
this is like a dog.

458
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,440
That's so weird.
But you know, but in terms of

459
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,720
behavior, but you know, we will
try to that is something that's

460
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:06,040
actually, it seems like a simple
goal, but to understand that

461
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:08,600
these are different species, but
different relationships between

462
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,840
them.
Understanding that cats should

463
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,960
be separated from dogs, not only
just for visual reasons, but for

464
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,840
sound reasons, small reasons,
etcetera.

465
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,160
So, you know, with cats, that's,
you know, one thing that we

466
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,520
really try to do with the and in
addition to that, you know, if

467
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,480
we don't have that opportunity,
like trying to create a safe

468
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,960
space for them, so covering
their their cages or having the

469
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,840
windows so that they're only one
way, if they're any cat warts

470
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:30,240
that they can't see what's going
on out there.

471
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:35,240
But they cats like to be kind of
recluse away from situations.

472
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,320
You know, more often dogs more
often, not always, but more

473
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,280
often dogs want to be involved
with or being able to see

474
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,040
situations.
You know, those are a couple of

475
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,760
things that are good points, you
know, and you know, outside of

476
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,160
the pharmacologic side, because
a lot of times, you know, when

477
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,000
we talk about fear free, I feel
like the first thing people talk

478
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,720
about is pharmacology or or
supplements help control

479
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,240
anxiety.
And like, so I think that the

480
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,120
other point you mentioned is
actually an excellent one that I

481
00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:02,360
do talk to pet parents a lot
about.

482
00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:05,320
If, you know, if pet comes in
super nervous or anxious, is

483
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,480
that, you know, a couple of
things you could try at home to

484
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,720
kind of get them used to this
situation, which, like you said,

485
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:15,400
was starting early with taking
pets on, you know, drives or in

486
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:21,240
car rides or getting them used
to the, you know, the the

487
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,320
carrier or, you know, even the
simple fact of putting the leash

488
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:29,400
on and walking towards the car
versus walking on a walk.

489
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,880
Like they may see like, Oh my
gosh, like we're putting leash

490
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:32,920
on where we're going towards a
car.

491
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,840
Like I'm about to get stabbed
and, and, and stretched and

492
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,160
poked.
So, you know, that that's

493
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,560
something that, you know, we
should desensitize to over a

494
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,760
period of times.
Yeah, I mean, you made a several

495
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:46,720
good points as well.
You know, so I think that those

496
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:51,000
are those are all things that we
tried to do or at least propose

497
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:56,360
to do to try and help an animal
to not basically associate going

498
00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:58,960
in the car, going to that office
as a torturous event.

499
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,800
So, but you really do your best
What it's about, it's being and

500
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:03,800
it's about being proactive
actually is the last part of it

501
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,280
starting early.
Yeah, I've, I've even had

502
00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:12,480
suggested to people to take
their pets to, like, call first

503
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,680
to make sure, like whoever's at
the reception desk can actually

504
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,600
manage and handle.
And it's not like a crazy

505
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,320
situation when you walk in.
But to take your dog

506
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:27,160
specifically to the vet's office
just to walk in, to let the

507
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,160
people at the front desk love on
them, tell them they're a good

508
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,800
boy or a good girl, give them a
treat, maybe weigh them and then

509
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,240
leave.
Like so that they're not always

510
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,600
associating the vet's office
with being poked and being

511
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:41,240
prodded.
Yeah.

512
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,440
Exactly.
Yeah, I don't think anyone at

513
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,520
about of us would, you know,
would make anyone feel bad about

514
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,400
that.
I think actually people would

515
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,640
say we should do this more often
because, yeah, I think it would

516
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,520
help a lot.
And, you know, it's, you know,

517
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,200
maybe it's out of your way for a
couple minutes, but it could

518
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,080
make a world difference for a
pet, you know?

519
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,080
Yeah.
And again, like I, I can only

520
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,480
imagine that it is that much
harder to do in an emergency

521
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,200
setting.
What how did you get into

522
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,240
emergency?
I mean, for me, from my

523
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,560
standpoint, just from everything
I know, being more holistically

524
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,560
minded, the training that
veterinarians get in vet school

525
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,960
I think is perfect for emergency
medicine.

526
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,960
Like that's, that's what you're
trying to do, you know,

527
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,040
diagnostics and emergency
medicine.

528
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,400
But like, from your viewpoint,
having actually gone through vet

529
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,960
school, how did you get into
emergency medicine?

530
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,360
What?
What sent you down that path?

531
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:40,720
Well, you know, I guess you
know, in vet school, it's kind

532
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,120
of interesting, I guess just to
kind of touch on that point in

533
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,440
vet school, what I find actually
is that most, at least my

534
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,760
experience and what I would say
is probably majority of

535
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,200
experiences that vet schools for
the most part push you to be a

536
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,680
specialist.
And that the non specialized

537
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,800
primary care doctor and the non
specialized emergency doctor are

538
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,560
kind of like not too much talk
about maybe I'd say that you

539
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,240
know, where you spend a lot of
your time, like on your

540
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,720
rotations in that school.
I'd say I spent probably the

541
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,240
most on emergency so I could
that is something that does

542
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,880
happen, I guess if you don't
overtly like asked to be on a

543
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,480
different speciality service for
more than that.

544
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,440
But I definitely would say that
that was kind of a natural

545
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,360
thing.
I mean, for me, I went back to

546
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,400
emergency because my internship
actually, which I always prior,

547
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,080
I always promote to
veterinarians is to always do an

548
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,080
internship if you can the year
after that school.

549
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:31,440
You know, in human medicine, you
do either 3 or 4 year residency

550
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,960
no matter what, you know, after
school, which I think is

551
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,840
important because you don't get
really any hands on clinical

552
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,560
experience in that school.
You get observatory clinical

553
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,840
experience and maybe get to do 2
surgeries on the, you know, on

554
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,680
unless you, you know, do an
extra, you know, an

555
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,960
extracurricular couple weeks
where you get more experience

556
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:52,400
with that.
But you know, you're really

557
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,440
observing for the most part and
being included in the most basic

558
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:56,920
of aspects when you're at
school.

559
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,520
It's an internship is where I
was thrown into the gauntlet and

560
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,400
I went to a very difficult
internship and which I'm super

561
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,520
grateful for because I think
that it, you know, it prepared

562
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,960
me for the world much quicker
than if I would have went to one

563
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,920
that was less interactive, even
though it was a little bit

564
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,920
challenging at times with, you
know, an asterisk next to a

565
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,720
little bit.
But but you know, Invesco, I

566
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,360
think that really appreciate to
be a specialist.

567
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,440
And if you don't become a
specialist, which is the mindset

568
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,760
that a lot of people come out
with, then it's like, well, then

569
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,440
you're just going to be another
one of these vets that are

570
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,080
primary care or emergency
medicine.

571
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,320
It's almost like it's downplayed
is not as important.

572
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,920
So, so, you know, become an
emergency veterinarian for me

573
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,200
was actually a consequence,
though, of failing to become a

574
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,040
specialist or failing to find
comfort error or I'm sorry,

575
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:48,880
planning to find passion to
become a specialist.

576
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:55,120
And so my internship was in like
a, a very advanced emergency

577
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,040
specialty hospital up in Boston.
And so, you know, I still got

578
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,480
exposure to a lot of the
specialties and I definitely,

579
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,760
you know, was still in the path
of becoming one or wanting to

580
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,400
become one at that time.
But what we did there was 90%

581
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,480
emergency medicine.
So I found it fun.

582
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:15,840
You know, it's definitely a lot
of Saturdays than happier days

583
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,600
in Merchant and that's a
guarantee.

584
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,400
But you find find comfort in
what you can address or can

585
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,160
treat and sometimes even cure,
which is not always easy.

586
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,360
Which is weird to say that you
know most of the things you see

587
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,640
you you can't cure.
But because you're seeing a lot

588
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,800
of pets that are mostly in the
end stages of things or have

589
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,320
gotten far advanced, you know
the ones that are wins.

590
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:44,440
You take home as best you can
and you try to see it as the

591
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,960
ones you can help the most.
You try to help the most of the

592
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,280
ones you know.
Maybe, you know, you're here to

593
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,440
provide answers at least or
provide a palliative plan that

594
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,480
you do that as well.
You know, emergency medicine is

595
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,760
kind of taking your wins and
prioritizing the battles that

596
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,760
you came out on top and in the
other situations, trying to do

597
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,560
the best you can for the pet,
even if it means that sometimes

598
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:07,920
it's their last day here with
us.

599
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,040
Yeah, yeah, I can imagine that.
It is pretty sad.

600
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,200
I have such a soft heart.
I don't know that I could do it.

601
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,160
But yeah, it's one of the the
questions that I wanted to ask

602
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:25,600
you was around like things you
see coming in that maybe really

603
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,160
aren't emergencies.
One of my biggest pet peeves is

604
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,360
with diarrhea.
I feel like people freak out so

605
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,520
quick over their pets having
diarrhea.

606
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,240
And maybe you have a different
viewpoint of this, but like, it

607
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,920
happens and like, it's not
always something to immediately

608
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:44,640
run to the vet for unless
there's like blood.

609
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,760
But or if it's a puppy, you
know, that's obviously they're

610
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,520
much more at risk for
dehydration much more quickly.

611
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,040
Like, I don't know, I feel like
that's one of my biggest pet

612
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,760
peeves with, with people is
like, it's not always an

613
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,400
emergency.
Yeah, I think it's subjective

614
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,520
like you just pretty much
alluded to is that it's a

615
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:02,960
subjective situation.
Yeah.

616
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:08,679
I mean, you know, diary happens
to us and so we don't but but I

617
00:34:08,679 --> 00:34:10,040
could, I definitely could see
that.

618
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:11,600
But it is it's really
subjective.

619
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,920
Like, you know, and that's The
thing is that it was a pet

620
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:15,760
parent.
You know, especially more

621
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,400
nowadays where it's like, you
know, it's pet parent, but a lot

622
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,760
of people see pets as their non
same species child.

623
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,320
So, you know, a lot of you know,
with your kid, you're going to,

624
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,679
you're going to educate yourself
as a pet, as a parent, you're

625
00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:33,800
going to, you know, overtime
kind of look and research

626
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,440
things.
And so a lot of pet parents in

627
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,239
this community actually do a
great job of that.

628
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,600
I, you know, through my
telehealth comments have come

629
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,560
across the parents that
sometimes blow me away with how

630
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,199
much research they've done and
they are just looking to kind of

631
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:47,760
consolidate that.
And so, you know, a lot of times

632
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,639
they know as much as me in some
situations on topics.

633
00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:53,360
So I'm like, well, it's really
impressive.

634
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,360
But but at the same time, you
know, it's and, and so that's

635
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,560
just a testament to like, you
know, pets, pet parents can be

636
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,480
super educated sometimes as much
as veterinary can a lot of

637
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,360
topics.
So diarrhea is a subjective

638
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,240
situation, right?
And and that's one that you can

639
00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:08,400
research.
So, and I think I did a, I think

640
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,400
I did a video or guide, but I
know a few vets have also kind

641
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,160
of put videos out in terms of
helping to triage at home, You

642
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,320
know, triage at home when when
diarrhea is a situation that

643
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,880
does, you know, may be
responsive to some at home

644
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,280
therapies.
And then what?

645
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,080
It may be something that doesn't
see about.

646
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:31,160
I know that I can't remember it.
I know Doctor Katie Woodley puts

647
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,560
a lot out around that.
That's exactly what I was

648
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:34,080
thinking about.
Yeah.

649
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,120
She has a bunch of blogs and
stuff I've read with her things

650
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,960
and she has a great article
actually that has several

651
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:41,680
supplements on that you can have
on hand at home.

652
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,000
I also have a few that, you
know, I've included.

653
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,680
I like a linterium social media
that I have a couple of

654
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,120
companies that are some good
products I like to have at home

655
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,600
for nonspecific diarrhea or
loose stools.

656
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,200
But but yeah, I know if it's a
couple things you mentioned, if

657
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,320
it's like a young puppy,
especially if they're like in

658
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,320
the midst of their vaccination
series, their puppy series where

659
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,280
they may not believe fully
protected from some things.

660
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,520
Or, you know, a pet start
starting to have, you know, a

661
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,160
good amount of blood in it in
the stools as well.

662
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,160
Or, you know, they haven't eaten
for, you know, a day and 1/2 as

663
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,040
well as having diarrhea.
Like those are situations, like

664
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,120
you said, where you know, you're
setting up not only for

665
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,320
diarrhea, but that you may not
be able to get the fluids in

666
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:19,760
that you need to match what
you're losing.

667
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:21,760
But yeah, it's a subjective
call.

668
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,960
And so I think you're right that
there are a lot of times that,

669
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,840
you know, some symptoms at home
can be addressed with

670
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:33,480
supplementation and diarrhea is
a really a really good one to

671
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:35,560
bring up.
And you know, you're looking for

672
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,920
other things that can be
addressed, but it is subjective

673
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,000
call.
But but there are resources out

674
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,080
there, preference I think to
kind of help them, you know,

675
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,360
triage at home and figure out,
you know, what's the best

676
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,440
solution at the time.
Yeah.

677
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,880
Well, what are some things that
I mean, I'm, I guess I'm curious

678
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:54,960
as to like what you're seeing
now.

679
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,080
What do you see come in a lot?
Well, right now, I'd say

680
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,000
vomiting, diarrhea has always
been the ruin.

681
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,000
That's how we see that all the
time, you know, but you know,

682
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,920
out of that list, you know, I
could create 12 or 14 different

683
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,760
things that can got you there.
You know, whether they're GR

684
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,360
will not.
So that's a puzzle piece aspects

685
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,400
for for me, at least for us is
that's just like saying like,

686
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:20,120
OK, this I have, you know, three
dogs just came in for the same

687
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,800
symptoms and, you know, each one
of them may have a different

688
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,360
reason why.
You know, one might have eaten a

689
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:29,080
sock, one might have a history
of food sensitivities, one may

690
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,800
have a gallbladder infection
that's causing them secondary

691
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,080
vomiting and diarrhea.
So, you know, that's kind of a

692
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,560
puzzle piece aspect.
That is our job as the vet side.

693
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,640
And when a pet parent comes in
with the situation.

694
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,680
And so, you know, out of those
three, you know, the, the, you

695
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,080
know, well, we'll say it's just
diarrhea alone, like the one in

696
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,280
the middle, the food sensitivity
pet, you know, maybe that one

697
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,240
could have been addressed at
home with some supplementation

698
00:37:52,240 --> 00:37:55,760
or fasting the pet for 12 to 18
hours and offering just liquids.

699
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,040
And then the other two obviously
are, you know, different

700
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,680
situations, one's situation,
one's a medical situation, so.

701
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:03,280
For.
Sure.

702
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,600
But yeah, so vomiting, diarrhea
is probably always been #1 you

703
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,960
know, we see a lot of pets.
I see a lot of trauma pets.

704
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,440
I really like trauma pets like I
like, but you know, I like, I

705
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,400
like dressing those the most, to
be honest.

706
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,160
But we see a lot of trauma
that's kind of like a common

707
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,640
thing we'll see, you know, out
of that.

708
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,280
It's a mixed bag, you know, pets
coming in for, you know, pain

709
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,720
that, you know, it's hard to
figure out where it's from.

710
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,560
You know, we see a lot of pets
that have like different

711
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,040
hormonal, endocrine disorders.
You know, some diabetic pets,

712
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,040
you know, think, you know, if
they have different levels of

713
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:34,800
diabetes, that's control.
That's a common thing.

714
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,160
We'll see you see some affair of
like neurologic conditions, you

715
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,080
know, whether it is seizure
related or spinal related.

716
00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:43,440
I work down in Florida a lot.
So even though I travel, you

717
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,640
know, full time for work up and
down the East Coast Florida,

718
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,360
there's there's a cane toads or
buffo toads down there where and

719
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,680
they are like everywhere.
So we get a lot of pets, I'd say

720
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,800
at least one, one to two at
minimum a week, sometimes 1A day

721
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,400
of pets coming in because of the
pet even licks that toe.

722
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,440
They have seizures pretty,
pretty at least.

723
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,960
So toxicities we see, you know,
pets eating things they

724
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,280
shouldn't that have different
toxic variables.

725
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,920
Yeah, it's a mixed bag.
But I honestly would say vom and

726
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,880
diarrhea is always #1 and it
probably will always be #1 So

727
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,840
that's why it's good to, you
know, at home as a pet parent,

728
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,880
be like, hey, these are the, you
know, red flags I should look

729
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:24,040
for.
If I haven't seen, you know,

730
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:27,240
these red flags, maybe I can
kind of do some things at home.

731
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,520
And then once you start seeing
them, if when you start seeing

732
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,720
the red flags build up, then,
you know, good to come to that.

733
00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:34,320
But.
Yeah, How much?

734
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,760
I'm curious because it is an
emergency setting.

735
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,480
You probably, you know, it's
you're either like dead or

736
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,240
you're pulling your hair out,
right.

737
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:47,040
And like, that's just kind of
how how it goes, I'm sure.

738
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:51,160
But how much?
Especially considering there is

739
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,080
so much vomiting and diarrhea
coming in?

740
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,640
How?
How much do you actually get to

741
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,640
talk to pet parents about gut
health?

742
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,600
Not much at all.
And then that's why, you know.

743
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,520
I think that was another reason
why I kind of found a little bit

744
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:11,080
of interest in expanding my
abilities to connect with pet

745
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:12,680
parents outside of this merge
setting.

746
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,680
So yeah, the merger room, like
you said, there's, I'd say

747
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,600
depending on the hospital we
work at, I work mostly at the

748
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,240
busiest 1.
So I don't really get too many

749
00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:25,800
dead nights or days because I
guess most, I work mostly

750
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,840
nights, but you know, I guess
there's some days mixed in.

751
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:32,360
But yeah, I have, you know, 30
to 90 seconds to talk to a pet

752
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,400
parent.
And so, you know, and so it's

753
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,400
it's really you know, what's
going on.

754
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,680
This is what I want to do,
figure out what's going on if I

755
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,720
can.
If I can figure it out, I can't,

756
00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:43,160
great.
If I can't, then this is the

757
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:44,680
next step.
This is the person you have to

758
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,960
talk to you like it's very rapid
fire.

759
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:53,680
So Naked Pet, which is like my
online business, that was

760
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,960
something that I guess I was
yearning for was to not only be

761
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:02,160
educated in integrative holistic
therapies and, you know, talk

762
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:03,440
about it.
You know, in a situation like

763
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,240
this, which is kind of what I
was doing, I was talking at

764
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,040
conferences and I was doing
podcast, some of that, but I

765
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,680
really kind of wanted to also
make a difference with it.

766
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:15,040
So, so that's where the, you
know, the telehealth aspect of

767
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,960
Naked Pet came into play, was
getting more than 30 to 90

768
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,200
seconds to talk about what do we
do after the acute event?

769
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,600
You know, how do we create
longevity or the best

770
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,760
opportunity for longevity with
where we're at right now giving,

771
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:29,520
you know, we have these certain
things going on so.

772
00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:33,240
Yeah.
Yeah, there's not much time.

773
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,760
Yeah, I mean, I, I hate to say
this, but it's just the truth.

774
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,600
The worst experiences I've ever
had were in emergency clinics

775
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,880
and.
Then, so you know, you don't

776
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,200
usually go there voluntarily.
Yeah.

777
00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:51,160
Well, I mean, just like I
obviously this is not a

778
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:55,560
reflection of you as an
individual, but I have, I have

779
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:59,480
had people and these are
technicians usually because the

780
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,920
veterinarian doesn't have time
to have these conversations, you

781
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,720
know, tell me that I'm going to
kill my pet if I don't put them

782
00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:10,400
on this prescription diet.
Like literally you're just going

783
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,480
to like walk up in my face.
We're going to kill your cat.

784
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,720
And I'm like, this is not, this
is not an OK situation.

785
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:23,360
And I also had one of my dogs
pass away at an emergency vet

786
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,240
clinic overnight and they didn't
inform me.

787
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,680
So I had some really like not so
great.

788
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,400
Not so great.
Yeah.

789
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,600
And I had, I had another one,
another cat who it was at an

790
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,920
emergency hospital.
But they also had, they had like

791
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,120
residents there that were doing
studies.

792
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,520
And she wanted I I feel very
strongly like she kept my cat

793
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,080
alive because she wanted him in
her study, even though I kept

794
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,760
telling her to I was not going
to put my cat in the study.

795
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,240
That was that was a bad
situation also.

796
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,280
Exactly.
I think I agree with this.

797
00:42:59,960 --> 00:43:03,440
These are traumatic events.
Yeah, so those are probably some

798
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,440
of my, my worst experiences, but
I still appreciate emergency

799
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:08,680
medicine.
We need it.

800
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,840
It's it's it's there for a
reason, right?

801
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,280
Like, we, our pets, things
happen.

802
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,480
And heaven forbid your dog gets
hit by a car and your vet's

803
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,000
office is closed, right?
Like that's when it always

804
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:21,480
happens.
Yeah, exactly.

805
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,200
No, I mean, I could definitely
understand and I believe you

806
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:31,560
100%.
And yeah, well, the second one,

807
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,040
I, I don't, I don't want to
believe that one, but you know,

808
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,200
at least for the first one, I
honestly, what's helped me the

809
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,480
most is a veterinarian is
knowing that I'm here just for

810
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,200
suggestions and that being OK
with that.

811
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:49,080
Like I find that, you know, you
know, they want the vet

812
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,920
industry, they everyone in here
goes into it because they want

813
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,840
to help.
That's that's the way you

814
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,400
express that verbally and non
verbally is whether you're in a

815
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,120
vet clinic, whether you're
working at United States Postal

816
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:07,080
Service, whether you're, you
know, yeah, you're you're doing,

817
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:08,800
you're answering the phone for
Apple.

818
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:13,680
You know, that's the variable is
the way that emotional human

819
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:17,680
emotion acts in situations.
And so I definitely believe

820
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,400
that, you know, the first one
where, you know, you were told

821
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,800
that your cat would die from a
certain diet happened because

822
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,840
I've seen it multiple times.
I work with people that I know

823
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,360
of said things like that.
I'm just here for suggestions.

824
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,880
That's the way I approach it.
I'm like, I think this is the

825
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:34,560
right thing to do if you don't
want to do it.

826
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:36,920
Like it's not my pet and that's
OK.

827
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,000
And that's on both sides in the
emergency bedroom.

828
00:44:40,240 --> 00:44:43,320
No, and I'm make a suggestion.
I make an estimated plan of what

829
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,280
I want to do.
You want to follow it Like

830
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,080
that's OK.
Like it's not my, I think this

831
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,000
is the right thing, but this is
the best thing and can't do it.

832
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,240
You don't want to do it.
That's fine with me.

833
00:44:54,240 --> 00:44:56,120
Like I'm not going to make you
feel bad about it.

834
00:44:56,120 --> 00:45:00,800
You can talk to get a second
opinion and go from there, you

835
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:02,920
know so.
Yeah, yeah.

836
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,640
Guidance and I think that that
allows me as like an individual

837
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,000
as well to separate the facts
from the emotions and you know

838
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,880
this is what I think is the best
but emotionally am I going to

839
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,880
get tied up in it I'm not going
to get tied up because I got 40

840
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,400
things else I got to do right
now and so I think this is the

841
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,680
best thing right now if it's not
then that's OK we can make a

842
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,880
Plan B or you can see you in
regular vet tomorrow.

843
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:28,080
I don't care with that like you
know so I think that I'm a

844
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:33,600
little bit fiery sometimes in
ERS where people act emotionally

845
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,080
incorrect even though they're
trying to do the right thing or

846
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:37,960
say the right thing.
So I'm sorry it's.

847
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,560
A highly, highly volatile
setting.

848
00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:44,000
Everybody you know.
Pet parents are emotional when

849
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:45,880
they come in to an emergency
client.

850
00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:47,720
Sure.
Yeah, there's so much emotion

851
00:45:47,720 --> 00:45:50,920
that's going on.
Yeah, yeah, well, tell me more

852
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:55,000
about Naked Pet and what you
have going on over there and the

853
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,200
telemedicine that you're doing.
All right, pet parents, you

854
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:02,480
already know that I talk all the
time about needing to stop as

855
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,640
much as we possibly can, feeding
our fur babies garbage.

856
00:46:05,720 --> 00:46:08,200
For lack of a better word,
that's what we talked about here

857
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,320
a lot.
And again, doing the best we

858
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,600
can.
That is the message above any

859
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,080
and everything else.
The more we learn, the more we

860
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:18,880
know we need to make some
changes.

861
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,800
And this episode is powered by
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862
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,680
This is no BS.
And This is why I think you need

863
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:30,760
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So legacy Biome offers premium.

864
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:35,280
When I say premium, I mean
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865
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,960
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These are products for your dog

866
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,760
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867
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,880
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868
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,600
straight from nature's playbook.
Gut health isn't optional.

869
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:51,680
We talk about this all the time.
It's not optional.

870
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,920
It drives digestion, immune
strength, allergy resistance,

871
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,240
mood, and even chronic disease
risk.

872
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,720
So if your pet's gut is out of
whack, their whole system is out

873
00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:04,040
of whack.
If you've learned nothing from

874
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,360
me thus far, I think you should
know that.

875
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:09,240
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876
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877
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Generations bred to preserve a

878
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:20,840
rugged and unaltered microbiome.
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879
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:22,680
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880
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881
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:27,640
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882
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883
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A pet that is wrestling with

884
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:37,200
chronic diarrhea, itchy skin,
hair loss, allergies, rebounding

885
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,320
from antibiotics.
That's a thing too.

886
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:43,680
Legacy Biome is your weapon.
Heck, you can just use it

887
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:48,720
proactively to build a
bulletproof gut and immune

888
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,120
health.
So don't worry, vets handle

889
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:54,200
this.
FMT is administered rectally,

890
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,720
often through veterinarians
offices, but we don't always

891
00:47:57,720 --> 00:48:00,400
have access to that.
So what's the next best thing?

892
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:05,160
FMT capsules that are enteric
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893
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894
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:11,760
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895
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So top integrative vets across
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896
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,360
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That's not hype, that's

897
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898
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899
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900
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901
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And by the way, let me know how
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902
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You can always reach out to me

903
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,440
on Instagram.
I'm here to talk to you all the

904
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:42,240
time.
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905
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,000
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906
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907
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That's TPPR 10 for 10% off.
Well, tell me more about Naked

908
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:02,240
Pet and what you have going on
over there and the telemedicine

909
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:06,080
that you're doing.
Yeah, so Naked Pet was kind of

910
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:08,800
me expressing my frustrations
through a website.

911
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,720
So, you know, so in the, in the,
you know, integrative holistic

912
00:49:11,720 --> 00:49:15,520
side kind of alluded to earlier,
you know, I'd say the number one

913
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:19,200
thing we were seeing is, you
know, is the extreme rise in

914
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:23,320
pets with allergies and or at
least skin and GI based

915
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,520
disorders that were rooted in
immune dysregulation.

916
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,560
And so we know, with that being
said, you know, I said earlier

917
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:33,360
that I kind of fell the path of
educating myself and then

918
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,640
started talking about it, you
know, through different means.

919
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:39,760
But eventually I felt like you
should try to, you know, join

920
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,200
the that community that's trying
to make a difference with that,

921
00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:44,640
even though, you know, I don't
really have a space to do it at

922
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:46,280
the moment.
So, you know, meaning like the

923
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,080
emergency room, like that's not
the space to do it.

924
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,880
So I was like, Gary, well, you
know, I can, I guess I, you

925
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:52,360
know, I see a couple of people
doing things.

926
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,880
I started to actually was
working with the Tel Tel off

927
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,760
company that's for conventional
medicine, and I was like part of

928
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,440
like their research aspect.
So I kind of got exposure to

929
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:05,560
that for a little bit and
understood where Tel more like

930
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,120
more telehealth.
You know, it's a weird

931
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:08,520
discrepancy.
Again, kind of like the kind of

932
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:11,920
a thing, but the verbiage in the
telemedicine or the telehealth

933
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,960
space, you know, you have Tele
triage, you have telemedicine,

934
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,120
you have Tele radiology, a bunch
of things that are within it.

935
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:20,880
But in terms of like telehealth
is kind of like the overarching

936
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,880
verb that or absurd word that
you can use that the verbiage

937
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,760
will describe anything you do
via virtual communication.

938
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,360
And so, you know, I was like,
all right, well, I can probably

939
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:33,560
utilize this in a certain way if
I use certain words or I don't,

940
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:35,240
you know, make direct
recommendations.

941
00:50:35,240 --> 00:50:37,000
We don't talk about certain
topics.

942
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,720
We can probably still talk about
a lot and so, you know, after a

943
00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:43,160
year or so of researching, you
know, but what I could do

944
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:47,480
through telehealth and in the
same vein also, you know, with

945
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:53,760
the allergy side, I really
understood why in the vet space,

946
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,200
you know, whether it's
conventional or realistic.

947
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,040
We only talk about oral products
when it comes to allergies,

948
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:00,320
stuff like that.
Like if you have allergies, the

949
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,920
human or immune dysregulation at
the skin barrier, like a lot of

950
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,560
people you know who have that
know that there's complementary

951
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:10,640
topical treatment side to also
the oral sides, not just oral

952
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,280
meds are always taking.
So those two things I kind of

953
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:17,040
just brought together with naked
Pet or I helped with a very

954
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:21,160
close friend who's a genius
woman on the human space for an

955
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,920
holistic topical therapy.
She's like paramedical

956
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:27,040
aesthetician and RN and very
holistic minded for sure.

957
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,360
Been friends with her for years.
Like we went and work together

958
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,240
to create a product line for
pets and then I worked on the

959
00:51:33,240 --> 00:51:37,200
telehealth myself and figured
out what I could do and created

960
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,160
topics that I thought I could
provide significant value to pet

961
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:43,440
parents over virtual means and
then create a website and

962
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,080
brought the two together.
And so that's kind of how Naked

963
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,160
Pet was born.
So, you know, we've kind of

964
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,320
grown a lot since then.
You know, I added a few things

965
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,720
like added the tighter testing
to that, you know, after the

966
00:51:53,720 --> 00:51:57,120
initial launch.
You know, we, we do some more

967
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:00,560
advanced testing now through a
website, I'm sorry, a laboratory

968
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:05,800
called VDI where we can do like
mycotoxin testing or gut health

969
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:10,400
testing or even there's some
cancer screening testing that

970
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,120
they have through there that you
could sometimes do heavy metal

971
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:16,520
testing, you know, through
certain means.

972
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:19,880
You know, it's kind of expanded
since I started out where there

973
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,640
was just a couple of consults
and you know, the naked pet

974
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:27,360
products, we have a huge oral
product company kind of

975
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:31,200
affiliate group that I've slowly
vetted over time, added one

976
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,360
company a month at a time that,
you know, because I don't really

977
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:36,800
want to get into oral products.
There's a whole laundry list of

978
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:39,400
reasons why, but stick to the
topical state of my lane on that

979
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:41,680
side.
But, you know, obviously I use a

980
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,880
lot of supplements and
nutraceuticals through the

981
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,720
telehealth to kind of help pets,
you know, as you know, whether

982
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,200
pet parents are looking to get
away from pharmaceuticals or

983
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,360
trying to minimize the amount
that they have to give on a

984
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,080
daily basis.
So but yeah, it's kind of expand

985
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:56,640
into a three arm kind of
situation with the telehealth

986
00:52:56,640 --> 00:53:00,160
kind of being the the center of
it, the topical therapy line,

987
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,720
you know, being utilized.
And I'd say at least 50 percent,

988
00:53:03,720 --> 00:53:06,600
75% of the pets I see through
that console through the

989
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:09,440
consultation side.
And then slowly trying to create

990
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:11,840
a collected safe space of
products that I personally bet

991
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:15,480
it for safety and do believe are
effective to utilize through the

992
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,080
telehealth space, you know,
whatever supplementation I think

993
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:21,000
is necessary in complement to
proper diet.

994
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:24,120
Yeah, I'm so glad you said diet
because I was like, that's where

995
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,840
I was going because I.
Of everything.

996
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:33,040
It really, really is.
And I mean, I that's, you know,

997
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:34,840
the universe just brings you
what it brings you and you're

998
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:36,680
like, OK, I guess this is what
I'm doing.

999
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:42,760
And I mean, most of my clients
are leaky gut.

1000
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:49,320
I have so many dogs with SIBO.
Shocked at the number of dogs I

1001
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:54,240
have with SIBO and it's just
like can't do anything without

1002
00:53:54,240 --> 00:53:57,320
addressing the diet first,
especially with these dogs that

1003
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:03,320
can hardly eat anything.
You know the hour, hour and a

1004
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:08,520
half, depending on what consul
we do, you know at least 30

1005
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:12,280
minutes, At least half of it or
more is just about either.

1006
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:15,600
What diets haven't worked?
Which diets we could try, which

1007
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,520
ones we have left, Which
proteins are left, which, you

1008
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:22,000
know, do we need a cooling,
warming, you know, that's, that

1009
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,800
takes at least 50% of the hour,
hour and a half every time.

1010
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:28,000
So I definitely agree with you.
It's the foundation and but it's

1011
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:32,920
also the least talked about I
think in other settings outside

1012
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,800
of like, you know, maybe what
you and I are seeing, you know,

1013
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:38,480
people seeing us so.
It's, yeah.

1014
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:45,680
Well, it's so individualized.
It's hard to put that kind of

1015
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:48,560
content out.
I think because it is so

1016
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:53,800
individualized, it's easy to put
a supplement or a nutraceutical

1017
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:57,640
out and say this will do all
these wonderful things, buy it,

1018
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:01,680
Yeah.
Unfortunately, I agree with too

1019
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:03,040
much.
Everything's the next best

1020
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,480
thing.
For sure, for sure.

1021
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:10,600
So I I guess you're still doing
the telehealth currently, Is

1022
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:12,120
that a thing?
You're still Oh, yeah, yeah.

1023
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:16,000
No, yeah, we all, Yeah, we, you
know, we, we kind of initially

1024
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:18,880
actually we got overwhelmed.
We had too many consults at

1025
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:20,680
once.
So we actually have, we

1026
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:24,520
published the consultation
schedule one month at a time.

1027
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,680
So that could we, we put out
like 3 or 4 months and we're

1028
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:32,440
booked.
We're booked because I work in,

1029
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:35,880
I work in the clinic 20 to 22
days a month give or take.

1030
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:40,360
And I'm usually flying between
on my off days or either flying

1031
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,680
or something, actually many
times on my on days as well.

1032
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:46,560
So we try to, I, I basically fit
in on any of my off days.

1033
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:51,720
It's really when I do the, the
consults or, or the hour before

1034
00:55:51,720 --> 00:55:55,080
I'm about to go work a 14 hour
ER shifts, you know, So I'm

1035
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:58,680
basically fitting into that.
And but yeah, no, 100% we do it

1036
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,040
all time.
We right now is the hot season

1037
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:03,720
for the tighter testing
actually, right, You know,

1038
00:56:03,720 --> 00:56:06,120
right.
February to April, because a lot

1039
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:09,920
of people are doing their
Wellness exams with their pet

1040
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:11,760
parents, which is actually, I do
support that.

1041
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:12,920
I think that's the best time of
year to do it.

1042
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:16,440
And you know, before they go to
see the vet or they're planning

1043
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:19,480
to go see the vet, they, you
know, they're the tire testing

1044
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:21,600
is a blood draw.
So they're like, all right,

1045
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:22,920
well, I'm going to go to see
that anyway.

1046
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:24,320
So I'm like, that's perfect time
to do it.

1047
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:30,720
And so we get a couple dozen of
those, you know, over the last 2

1048
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:33,760
1/2 months, you know, we still
do it all the time.

1049
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:40,480
And you know, you know, I think
that most pet parents walk away

1050
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:45,160
with that feeling like they were
heard #1 and that they got some

1051
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:47,520
sufficient value out of it.
So for the most part.

1052
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,880
Yeah, I, I mean that that's
something that that we don't

1053
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,600
talk enough about, like for
sure, you know, being heard.

1054
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,880
That's what I that's why I get
so often from people is like,

1055
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:06,280
I'm just glad you listened to me
and, and didn't shrug them off,

1056
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:08,800
didn't say, oh, it's nothing,
don't worry about it.

1057
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:10,640
Or let me just give you this
pill.

1058
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:16,240
Like, you know, actually like
listening to them because the

1059
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:23,080
the bottom line is that yes,
vets are trained you all of you,

1060
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:27,480
y'all, or you're trained and you
see so many animals that you see

1061
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:30,480
trends and you can put all of
that together, but like nobody

1062
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:34,760
knows an individual animal like
their their owner does.

1063
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:37,520
Yeah, no, for sure.
I definitely agree with that.

1064
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:40,600
Yeah.
So I want to thank you so much

1065
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:42,600
for your time.
And just ask like, if there's

1066
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:45,480
anything else that we didn't
cover that you wanted to talk

1067
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:50,080
about or anything that you want
to say to people listening about

1068
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,200
their pets or about what you do.
Yeah.

1069
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:55,080
No, I mean, I, I think that
actually that was a kind of a

1070
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:59,360
good segue to in the closing was
that, you know, essentially

1071
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:04,280
you're going to find people on
in every walk of life that you

1072
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:08,520
associate with or you feel you
can assimilate to them.

1073
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:13,480
So the same goes for, you know,
your your pets health and

1074
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:15,520
Wellness.
You know, you, I think it's good

1075
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:17,520
to be for sure.
You know, like we talked about

1076
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:19,280
an educated pet parent as best
you can.

1077
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:23,440
And, you know, when it comes to
kind of consolidating where, you

1078
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:25,440
know, you take all these things
that you're hearing and you're

1079
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:27,960
looking up and then trying to
find what's best for your pet,

1080
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:33,600
You know, finding, you know, pet
professionals that are in the

1081
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:38,040
same thoughts category as you,
in the same interesting goals as

1082
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:41,800
you, which can be harder than it
sounds.

1083
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:44,960
But trying to find that as best
you can is a good place to

1084
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,400
start.
Because, you know, like I said

1085
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,720
earlier, you're not going to
find people that you associate

1086
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:53,880
with just right away everywhere.
So not being afraid to, you

1087
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:56,800
know, try to find that person
that in the vet space that is

1088
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:59,280
going to listen to you and, and
want to work with you as a pet

1089
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:00,560
parent when you're trying to do
your best.

1090
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:04,320
Because I think they do exist in
all 50 states.

1091
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:08,200
You just maybe have to find them
and yeah, may take a little bit

1092
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:11,280
more work, but I think they do
exist and they're out there for

1093
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,240
you.
Yeah, well, I appreciate that.

1094
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:15,720
I appreciate you and your time
in it.

1095
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:22,240
And, you know, wanting to expand
beyond just what you learned in

1096
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:25,040
vet school.
I, I, I appreciate that so much

1097
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:29,760
for our pets especially.
So thank you again that you guys

1098
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:32,560
listening.
I want to say thank you to you

1099
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:33,720
for.
For being here.

1100
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:37,040
For listening, make sure to
check the show notes for any

1101
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:42,120
links for anything that Zach
talked about and just give your

1102
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pets some extra love from both
of us this week and I'll talk to

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you next week.