219. How Your Stress Affects Your Dog: Mindset & Behavior Tips w/ Kyle Kittleson

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We're not caring for ourselves
the way we should and that

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affects our pets when we're
burnt out, when we're stressed

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out, when we're anxious, when
we're sick physically, when

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we're sick mentally, it affects
our pets.

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And so it is something that I
have been very aware of and

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trying to bring into this
podcast.

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Welcome back pet parent.
We have a really cool guest

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today and if well, one welcome
back.

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If you have been here a while,
you know who I am.

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My name is Jessica.
I am the host of the Pet

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Parenting Reset, a canine
nutritionist and holistic pet

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health coach.
But if you are new here, thank

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you so much for being here.
We have a really cool guest

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today, and I'm glad you'd picked
this episode to join us because

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Kyle Kittleson is with us.
He is a senior animal trainer

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and mental health advocate.
You have worked, Kyle, I'm going

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to introduce you in just a
second.

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But have worked with dogs.
You've worked with all kinds of

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species of animals, exotic
birds, killer whales.

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This is a really, really cool
episode for you guys to be

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joining in on.
You use behavioral principles

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from Arizona State University,
which is really cool.

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I'm glad you found a university
that could teach you that

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because they no don't all do
that.

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And you're also currently the
host of Med Circle.

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So you're interviewing leading
mental health experts, which I

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find to be a topic we really
need in today's day and age.

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You also are the creator of Baa
Baa Blast, which is an

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educational YouTube channel
teaching children empathy and

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resilience, also something we
need very much in today's

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society.
And you have a really unique

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take on the human animal bond,
which I would love to talk more

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about.
But before we do, welcome to the

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pet parenting reset, Kyle and.
Yeah.

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Hi.
Hi, everybody, and hi, Jessica.

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So I would just before we jump
into all of that, because

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there's so much to talk about, I
would love to hear just a little

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bit about you and why you
decided to jump into this field

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and how you got here.
All right, let's talk straight.

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What's going on with your dog?
What's going on with your cat?

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Do they have chronic GI issues,
bad breath, bad behavior,

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constant upset stomachs,
diarrhea?

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Do they have indigestion
symptoms?

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Do they have allergies?
Are they itching all the time?

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Do they have skin issues?
What is going on with your dog?

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Because chances are based on the
data, based on what we know,

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there is something going on with
your dog or cat because most

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dogs and cats in the US are not
super healthy.

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I would love to hear just a
little bit about you and why you

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decided to jump into this field
and how you got here.

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Into the mental health field or
the animal space?

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Let's go with the animal face
1st and then we'll talk about

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mental health.
I was born with this kind of

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disgusting passion for marine
animals.

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I mean, I'm just obsessed with
them.

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I still AM.
And it was no, there was no

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catalyst to it.
There was no, no one singular

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event.
It's I, I grew up in Arizona in

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the desert and I think I was
just enamored with the fact that

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there was water and animals
lived in there, you know, And

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then when I started to learn
about those animals and see him,

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I was a big Jacques Cousteau fan
and I went to marine summer

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camps and I went to SeaWorld
when I was a kid and all these

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things.
And I was like, these are the

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best animals on the planet.
Like I remember asking my dad

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one time when I, I was really
young, I go, why doesn't

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everybody love mine animals as
much as me?

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It boggled my mind because I was
like, to me, it was such an

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obvious passion, but I never
thought I would do it.

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I never thought I would get
involved.

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Because you want to talk about a
lot of work, a lot of sacrifice.

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Go work with animals in any
capacity, really.

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I mean, it is you.
You don't meet a lot of, you

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know, animal trainers, animal
behaviorists, animal keepers.

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I mean, pick a category or a
field who are making a ton of

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money.
You don't get Christmas off

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Saturdays and Sundays.
That doesn't mean anything.

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The animals still got to be
cared for on Saturdays and

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Sundays and Christmas.
So you sacrifice a lot for the

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passion.
And, and I was very selfish when

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I was very young and I was like,
I'm never going to do that.

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I'm going to, I'm going to do
other things.

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But, but you know, I, I remember
reading a book and in the in

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college and the book said, if
you are not pursuing your

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passion and you have a passion
and you're not pursuing it, you

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are, are going to eventually end
up in your passion.

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They're like, they're like it,
It will happen for you.

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If you're not on that pursuit,
you might as well get on it

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because it's going to happen
anyway.

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And I remember thinking, yeah,
right.

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What does this book know about
anything?

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And then I ended up working with
marine animals and I had to

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really work to get into the
field because I started with

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exotics and I started with
marine animals.

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And I, I started with an unpaid
internship in Hawaii right after

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I graduated college and worked
with tons of animals.

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And then they hired me and then
I became a trainer.

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And then I moved around and
blah, blah, blah.

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Then I started dog training
company and, you know, just had

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this whole life with animals and
it was the best, the best.

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Like, it's just the best.
Yeah.

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As as your listeners know.
It is, but you're so right, it

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is something that they
appreciate it.

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They don't necessarily
appreciate it, like show the

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appreciation in ways that can
sustain us for long periods of

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time, but they certainly
appreciate it.

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And I think when you have the
education like you do, you might

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be able to see that appreciation
a little bit better with all of

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the behavioral knowledge that
you have.

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The average person though like
that I will admit I have had at

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least one pet since the day I
turned 18 and I I have

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experienced burnout like I have
experienced on the floor crying.

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I can't do this.
What did I do?

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Yeah.
What did I do?

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I understand that.
Of course I understand that.

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I'm still.
I just became the the proud

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parent, my dream dream, dream,
dream, dream pet as a macaw.

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And I was never.
And I worked with lots of

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different parents in my career
and I, I was never going to get

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a Macon until I was ready
financially, till I had the

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space and I had the time to do
it the way I wanted because I

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really wanted as close to a
zoological set up as I could for

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cleanliness, for, you know, the
Wellness of the animal,

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etcetera.
And well, I finally got there

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and I've been wanting this since
I was 13 years old.

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This, this bird, and I'm 39.
I got her last year when I was

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38.
I've had her for about a year

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and a half, two years now.
I'm still waiting for that

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moment where I go, Oh my gosh,
this is overwhelming.

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But I'm, I'm still in the
honeymoon phrase two years later

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where I, I love everything.
Even when she poops on the

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ground, I'm like, I get to clean
up bird poop.

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This is I'm so lucky.
Oh.

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My gosh.
Well, is she going to outlive

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you?
Yeah, so she's in my will.

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So if today I die, she goes to
my best friend and then he works

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with AI, call it the council, a
council of people that I've

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worked with and met throughout
my life.

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We're all bird people.
And he also gets some money.

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And his job is to find her, her
new forever home.

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Now, while I am alive, my job is
to put that, put that home in

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place.
But in the interim, I don't have

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that yet.
I don't have somebody where I

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go.
Yeah, you, you take her.

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I feel good about that.
And so hopefully I find that.

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But yeah, hopefully she does
outlive me.

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And I of course, I went through
all of that.

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And I've been thinking about
this since I was 13.

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So I, I, I, I, I did it this
way.

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And there are good things about
it and bad things about it, but

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this is the way we're doing it.
Yeah, birds are very interesting

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to me.
I have a bit of a fear of birds.

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I don't think I told you that
our like pre podcast chat.

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I have never My mom had some
birds when I was growing up and

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they were Jabba rice birds and
they like it was a male and a

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female.
They like mate for life and the

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male would like Peck at the
female to where like she would

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get sores and they would get
infected and all the things.

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And one time she died and then
he died because they don't they

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they mate for life and then
they're done.

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And I just like, like it was one
of the first times in my life

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where I was just like bawling my
like I had no, I did not really

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participate in the care of these
animals.

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I cried so hard and I'm like,
yeah, death is real.

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Yeah, right.
And I don't know if that changed

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my perspective of birds in
general, but I'm definitely

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scared of them.
I they, I have had bird like a

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pet bird, like chasing around
the house.

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And I'm like, no, I cannot do
that.

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Get it?
And you know, the macaw I have

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is the largest of all flighted
parrots.

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And she's 3 lbs.
She's 3 feet long, she's huge.

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She's massive.
She's got the biggest beak of

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any parrot.
And I mean, not any parrot, I

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guess there are certain, but
definitely the strongest beak of

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any parrot.
And when people and I take her

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out all the time and when people
see her very common reaction as

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I'm afraid of birds, I get it.
I understand they fly, they're

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unpredictable.
And parrots and birds are not

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domesticated animals.
And you know, these, these are

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exotic animals.
And that's a whole different

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type of trust building,
relationship building and

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understanding right now.
Like you said, so many nice

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complimentary things about me,
how I have this knowledge and

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background of behavior.
But when I got this bird, I

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found the guy who's like the
bird guy, OK, His name's Chris

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Biro.
He's trained every bird trainer

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in America and he's the number
one free flight bird trainer in

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my opinion.
And I meet with him every single

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week for three hours virtually.
It's a long, long class.

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It's one-on-one.
And he teaches me every single

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thing you can think about
parrots, the Physiology, the

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biology, the history, their
adaptations, their mating, their

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upbringing, everything.
Because I'm like, I, this is

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what I'm doing.
I'm not having children, I'm not

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seeking out of family.
I'm not doing any of that.

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My dream hasn't been get into a
house, get a bird, get this

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specific bird.
Like this is what my focus is

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on.
All my money goes to my bird,

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everything.
I mean, I, I drastically

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underestimated the cost of this
bird because I'm just like, he

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needs this, she needs this.
I want a bigger this, I want a

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better that, you know, get her
two of those.

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And it's, it's, I tell people
never ever, ever get a bird

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ever, ever.
No, I, nobody is ready for a

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bird.
The average parrot is rehomed 9

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times and it's life 9 times.
And part of that is because they

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live a long time OK, but the
other, the main part is that you

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have these Beautiful Creatures,
beautiful that they can talk

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sometimes with people go nuts
for.

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And the idea is the perception
is that, oh, I'll buy it a cage

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and I'll live in the cage and
I'll feed it and give it water

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and I'll have this cool bird
that'll be so cool.

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And I'll talk and my friends
will think it's cool.

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Well, you really bought
something that's way more

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intelligent than the dog you
got.

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You bought something that can
fly, which is a set of

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challenges.
You bought something that is

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inherently destructive and wants
to be destructive.

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They want to destroy things.
That's what they wake up.

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They're like, today I got to
destroy and, and they're

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expensive.
They're really, really

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expensive.
So people go, I got to get rid

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of this thing and then it's
terrible.

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It's that's why, that's why I
was doing another podcast and I

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00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,640
said, Jessica, I was like, if I
had to guess, I would guess.

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00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,240
And, and y'all, I know there are
bird people listening, so don't

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00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:18,080
get mad at me, but I would guess
that 10% of bird owners are

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meeting minimum standards of
care, meaning 90% of birds are

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00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:27,880
living in conditions that for
any number of reasons I would

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00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,960
consider subpar, not not meeting
the minimum requirements because

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they're so difficult.
You know it's not a cat, it's

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not a fish.
Well, it's interesting because

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00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,320
I'm thinking like outside of the
flying thing, cats are I, I've

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00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,320
said this so many times and
people do come at me about the

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00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,920
statement, but I, I feel like
cats are more difficult than

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dogs.
And I have a feel, I say this a

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00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:56,280
lot too, that I feel like more
cats are not properly, like, I

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still am happy that they're in a
home, they're being fed litter

240
00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,120
boxes are clean, like I'm happy
about that.

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00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,920
But generally speaking, I, I
feel very much somewhat like a

242
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,400
similar thought process to cats
that you do about birds, that

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00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,640
they're really not getting what
they need in our homes more

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00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,760
often than not.
So everything you're saying

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00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:19,360
about these birds, I'm like, I
say that about carrots, all the.

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00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,160
Time yeah, and I think there's
probably more resilience in a

247
00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:27,920
cat or a dog in most homes than
an exotic bird who's never been

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00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,440
domesticated.
The bird the bird suffers at a

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00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,840
harder rate than a cat who's
maybe not getting the

250
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,400
stimulation, engagement,
nutrition it needs or whatever.

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00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,920
Yeah, but the truth is, is like,
and you know what, a lot of you

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00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:42,680
know, I'm not having kids, but
all my friends have kids, you

253
00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,560
know, and they see me,
everything I do to take care of

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00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,800
Spire, that's my bird.
Her name's Spire.

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00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,920
And they go, Kyle, like you,
that sounds even harder than

256
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:53,280
having my kid.
Like, go.

257
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,880
That cannot be true.
They go well, the way you do it.

258
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,000
It's definitely harder than
having a kid, you know?

259
00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,440
So you could also make it a part
if you want it to be.

260
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:05,280
Yeah, yes, yes, yes.
So I of course, of course, we

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00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,040
talked to the very beginning,
you do a lot with mental health

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00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,480
and I definitely want to talk as
much as we can about that.

263
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:15,000
But before we do get to the
mental health aspect of this,

264
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:20,720
because there there is a human
animal bond that is I think it

265
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:25,040
encompasses so much of our lives
that we're not like tapping into

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00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,840
much of it.
But I'm very curious before we

267
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:32,600
start talking about all of that,
like how similar because I train

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00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,760
dogs for a little while.
I don't do it anymore.

269
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:39,280
I've got over at, like you said
earlier, people get into working

270
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,720
with animals and then it's like
this isn't this isn't.

271
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,880
I was one of those people that
got into training dog.

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00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:50,480
I really did it because I wanted
to keep dogs out of shelters and

273
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:51,720
rescues.
I was like, well, this is

274
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,600
something I can do.
And then I realized how much

275
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,960
it's actually people training
when you're doing it like

276
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,200
one-on-one in homes.
I'm not, I wasn't over here

277
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,000
training like canine police dogs
or anything, right?

278
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,040
It's just, I need my dog potty
trained.

279
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,680
I need my dog to stop jumping on
me, like those kinds of things.

280
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,480
And I'm like, it was, it was so
much people training.

281
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:19,119
But so I'm curious how what
you're doing in like, I assume

282
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,800
like a zoo setting with these
exotic animals.

283
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,240
And you can correct me on that.
How different is it because

284
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,400
you've done both, You did the
dog training, like how different

285
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:33,040
is it really?
The training is not different at

286
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,600
all.
I mean train a dog, train a

287
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,480
whale, train a bird, train a
mouse.

288
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:41,720
I mean, it really is
fundamentally the same where

289
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:46,520
species specific behaviors or
nuances are certainly a

290
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,240
consideration.
But even in dog training you see

291
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,000
that among different dog breeds.
So I don't even think that's

292
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,440
that different.
The big difference is in a

293
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,920
zoological setting, you are
working with a team who's there

294
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,200
full time to train these animals
and make sure they're good.

295
00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:06,440
That's their whole your whole
job and you're not doing it

296
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,720
alone.
You got tons of people doing it

297
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,400
and you got a vet staff doing it
and you've got every, if you're

298
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,880
at a good facility, you've got
every single thing you could

299
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,760
possibly need to make this
animals life enriching and

300
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,080
stimulating and vibrant and
awesome.

301
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,400
And when you're working with
dogs, you don't really have

302
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,000
that.
No ones doing it full time, no

303
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,160
ones waking up and going.
Now how do I've just got to

304
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:27,840
think about my dog all day
today?

305
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,400
They're not doing that.
You know, they trained for 15

306
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,000
minutes and they're like, oh,
that was good enough.

307
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,440
I hope my trainer doesn't yell
at me, and that'll be the end of

308
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:35,680
it.
And so I think that's a big

309
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:37,960
difference.
But the training is the same.

310
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,440
I mean, with, yes, nuances
across animal types exist, but

311
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:47,360
the training's the same.
And the caveat, I would say is

312
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,640
if you are a dog trainer who
uses punishment, which by the

313
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,120
way, I think is coming back a
little bit.

314
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,640
I Yeah, I was, when I was really
in the dog training world, I had

315
00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,200
a dog training company and I
sold it.

316
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,280
And then I was a dog training
consultant and I consulted other

317
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,920
dog training companies both on
the business side and actual

318
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:07,440
training.
I did more the business side at

319
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,560
that point than actual training.
But, and it was no one did

320
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:12,560
punishment.
I mean, it was every, it was

321
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,880
like, now I'm seeing that come
back a little bit.

322
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,640
And in a zoological setting,
there's no punishment, not at

323
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,040
anyone I've ever worked.
And I've worked in multiple

324
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,040
facilities and I know people at
virtually every facility and

325
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:29,320
that doesn't exist.
So if you are training a puppy

326
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,040
with punishment, that's not
going to work on a tiger, OK.

327
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,600
So I think that could be a
difference there.

328
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,720
And I will also say this, the
best relationships I've had in

329
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,360
my life are with animals.
And the best animals I've had

330
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:48,960
relationships with were more
intelligent, higher intelligent

331
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:50,760
animals.
Yes.

332
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:55,320
I love a dumb lab, OK.
I had one for 13 years and she

333
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:56,800
was fabulous.
She died this year.

334
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,360
It was terrible.
Worst, worst thing ever.

335
00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:01,000
Everyone has gone through that.
It's terrible.

336
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:02,600
We all know that.
And I love that, right?

337
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,840
She's the best dog.
Not the smartest, but so

338
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:07,880
awesome.
Well, you work with a dolphin,

339
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,680
super intelligent.
You work with a whale, even more

340
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,720
intelligent.
And then that intelligence, it

341
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:19,360
almost like brings them closer
to get you together with them.

342
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,200
And then when you start teaching
them things and then you Start

343
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:27,040
learning their nuances and their
their personality, and then they

344
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,440
Start learning your nuances and
personality.

345
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:34,280
Now you have this bond that I
have never recreated the same

346
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:40,120
way with, with a pet, with A and
I love my pets so, so much.

347
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,880
That dog Callie, Oh, my God,
Just thinking about her, my

348
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,720
heart skipped a beat.
But it was different than the

349
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,560
relationships I had with
dolphins, for example, because

350
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,000
they're just you're on a
different playing field.

351
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,920
It's like, can I really become
best friends with a six year

352
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:56,400
old?
Probably not.

353
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,680
Like we don't have enough like,
and he's not smart enough for

354
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,800
me.
So I need someone around my age

355
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,920
where I can be like, all right,
We're we're smart.

356
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:08,080
Yeah.
So OK, I saw this the other day

357
00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:10,880
and I knew I had to like bank it
for something.

358
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,080
You know those talking buttons
that people use for their dogs

359
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,480
and cats?
OK, so there was this one cat,

360
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,120
and it's not an account I
follow, so I couldn't tell you

361
00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:23,040
even the cat's name or anything.
But this cat, Oh my goodness.

362
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:27,080
It was watching like on repeat,
a Disney movie.

363
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,840
I don't remember which one.
It was Moana or something.

364
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,400
I have no idea.
I don't, I don't know, follow

365
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,800
them in the movie.
In the real, they were showing

366
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,160
someone in the movie was
teaching someone else their

367
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,000
language.
It was a different language and

368
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,600
it was the word for it was
either welcome or hello, I don't

369
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,600
remember which one.
And so the cat kept going over

370
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,880
to her buttons, saying, pushing
the new word button.

371
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,440
And then the person finally
caught on like, oh, she's trying

372
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,680
to get me to put a new word on
the board.

373
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:03,480
And just out of, like, trying to
figure things out, she put this

374
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,800
word that's in another language
on the board.

375
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,800
And so once she did that, the
cat hit the button with this

376
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,840
word in a different language.
And the person, you can hear the

377
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,000
person saying, yeah, you know,
what does that mean?

378
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,160
And the cat goes over and pushes
the English word for whatever it

379
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,320
meant.
And she's like, this move, My

380
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,200
cat is learning a new language
from a movie.

381
00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:28,640
And I'm just scared.
Like that's crazy to me.

382
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,440
Yeah, those things are crazy and
I never have.

383
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,280
I've never actually seen one in
person.

384
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,880
I, I don't know anyone
personally who's used it.

385
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,160
I've never used any of it.
The first one I ever saw, I

386
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,840
think it was a sheepdog that got
really famous for it.

387
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,920
And we chatted actually online a
little bit because I had a it

388
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,800
doesn't matter why.
So here my response to that

389
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:54,120
though, is it's very easy for
us, especially with pets.

390
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:59,200
OK, like take exotics out of it.
Pets, the ones who share our

391
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,800
bed, the ones who we give voices
to.

392
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,920
And you know, all these things
for us to be very

393
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,200
anthropomorphic.
And it's in that space of

394
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,960
anthropomorphism.
We can be like, oh, she's, she's

395
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,160
trying to do this or she wants
this.

396
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,920
And as the behaviorist to me
goes, oh, we would never say she

397
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,600
wants that because you don't
know, you don't know, you might,

398
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,600
you might be right, but you
don't know you, you try to speak

399
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,560
and think as factually and
unbiasedly as possible.

400
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,800
So the cat presses the button.
We know that the cat press the

401
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,800
button.
The cat wants the thing cuz it

402
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,080
da da, da da press the button.
Who knows, maybe, maybe not.

403
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,640
And so like the right now
there's a parrot going viral

404
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,120
because the parrot's
communicating through an iPad.

405
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,080
So I'm like, all right, let me
see how the parrot's

406
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,840
communicating through an iPad.
And there are grossly

407
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,160
exaggeratory conclusions based
on the parrot's behavior.

408
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:58,360
Like the parrot, you know,
clicks something and they're

409
00:23:58,360 --> 00:24:02,160
like, oh, you know, love.
That's because it's 3:00, and

410
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,400
grandma always calls at 3:00.
And he loves grandma.

411
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,080
So he clicked the heart.
And you're like, no, that's how

412
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:08,440
do you know that?
You know, that's.

413
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,680
Yeah.
So I, I don't really the

414
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:16,760
learning language thing to me
that's, that is an exaggeration.

415
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,320
I don't think they're actually
learning languages, but

416
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,200
associations for sure.
They're, they can learn

417
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,240
associations.
I did an experiment with, I hate

418
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,120
to call it experiment, but we'll
call it a behavioral trial with

419
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,480
a hyacinth macaw that I worked
with named Maxine, who is one of

420
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:37,000
the loves of my life.
And what we, what I did is I

421
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:42,880
wanted to see if Maxine could
essentially use what's it

422
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,240
called?
I forgot the name of it.

423
00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:47,160
I forget the name of it.
But the trial worked like this.

424
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,800
I taught Maxine, all right, this
is a rock.

425
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,040
OK, rock.
So I put the rock on the table.

426
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,360
I'd say rock.
And she would go get the rock

427
00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:56,920
and bring it back and put it in
my hand.

428
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,560
Be like, good job.
And then I would bring out a key

429
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,160
and I'd go key and I'd train her
key.

430
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,200
And she learned key meant go get
that object and bring it back

431
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,720
and put it in his hand.
And then I had the rock and the

432
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,920
key both out on the table.
And I'd say go get the rock.

433
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,000
Great.
Bring it back.

434
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,400
I'd put it back, go get the
rock.

435
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,080
Great.
She'd do it again, Go get the

436
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:17,880
key.
Great.

437
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,120
OK, so she's distinguishing
between these two objects based

438
00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:25,120
on the the cue that I've given
them, which is the name of the

439
00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:29,320
object.
So once that was completed, what

440
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,840
we wanted to, what I wanted to
see is could she you process of

441
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:34,960
elimination.
That was the phrase I was

442
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,120
looking for.
Through the process of

443
00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:43,440
elimination, determine the word
of a new object she's never seen

444
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:45,480
and a word that she's never
heard.

445
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,800
So I bring out a third object.
The rock isn't there.

446
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,880
The key is there.
And I bring out, let's say it

447
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:55,200
was a marble, and I bring out
marble, and she's never seen

448
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:56,960
this and she's never heard the
word marble.

449
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,360
And I say go get your marble.
So she knows it, right?

450
00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:02,520
I'm being a little
anthropomorphic.

451
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:07,880
She's going all right, this is
rock, this is key.

452
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,200
He didn't say rock, he didn't
see K he said marble.

453
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,680
Maybe he means this third one.
Whatever.

454
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,240
She went to the third one and
she got it.

455
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,160
And that was a very telling
thing for me that this animal

456
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:25,480
could critically think and
problem solve without having the

457
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,320
training, you know, initially to
back it up for marble.

458
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,600
And I just thought that was
very, very interesting.

459
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:36,440
And it, and the, and she was
able to do it consistently

460
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,720
accurately over and over and
over again.

461
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,920
And we could bring in new
objects and she would do it over

462
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,120
and over again.
And then I started doing it with

463
00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:44,760
dogs.
I started doing it with my dog

464
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,920
Cali.
And I'd go, go get your bone, go

465
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,920
get your ball, go get your rope,
go get your slinky or whatever

466
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,640
word I'd use.
And she'd go, oh, it's probably

467
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,040
that one, you know.
And so they are able to make

468
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,120
those associations and I'll say
learn language through that

469
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,240
process of elimination, which I
think is cool.

470
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,920
Well, I think that's interesting
that you're like a dumb lab, but

471
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,080
then the dumb lab, yeah.
And when I say dumb lab it's

472
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,160
very tongue in.
I don't even mean it insulting,

473
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:18,200
I mean it more as a whale.
You can tell the whale to do 7

474
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,720
things and it'll all at once,
you know, just with your hands

475
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,760
and they'll look at you, you
know, you, you say I want you to

476
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,320
jump, spit water out your mouth,
wiggle left and right, and then

477
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,080
when you're done, do a backflip.
The whales like, no problem,

478
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,560
I'll be right back.
And that'd be hard for a lot of

479
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,040
dogs to learn, but they do it.
But it'd be harder, yeah.

480
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:41,840
That's so interesting, so OK,
Animals in the ocean.

481
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,800
I'm fascinated by them as well.
So many people are also scared

482
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:46,440
of them.
I think it's an unknown thing,

483
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:47,840
right?
Maybe.

484
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:54,520
And I also think, didn't I just
see that Mexico has banned

485
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,600
dolphins in captivity now?
Yeah, and I also read that they

486
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,120
are planning to release those
dolphins in the ocean.

487
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,840
And when I read that, you know,
I stay away from that because it

488
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,120
is a sensitive subject to me.
I, I stay out of it because it's

489
00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:10,640
so I know there are people when
you said he's worked with killer

490
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,840
whales, ton of people go, oh
gross, that guy, oh bad

491
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,560
Blackfish, blah blah, SeaWorld,
you know, and that response, I

492
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,920
understand it.
That's because I understand what

493
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,120
media is available out there to
be consumed.

494
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,760
As somebody who was a senior
killer whale trainer at Shamu

495
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,640
Stadium in Orlando, I can tell
you that the the public's

496
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,680
perception and the reality are
not aligned at all.

497
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:39,840
And when Mexico announces this
grandiose objective of banning

498
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:46,440
dolphins for, we'll call it in
captivity, my, I get enraged

499
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,480
because it's so short sighted on
those dolphins.

500
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,520
Good luck getting them out in
the ocean.

501
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,320
Tell me how it goes.
Let let me know how it goes.

502
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,640
It's not going to go well.
It's not going to go well.

503
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,520
And so because you're upset
about something, you're going to

504
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,880
torture hundreds of dolphins to
make you feel better.

505
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,000
I don't like that.
I think that's awful.

506
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,240
The animal welfare should be
first, not what makes you feel

507
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:13,200
good.
OK #1 #2 is the public forgets

508
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:17,720
or doesn't even realize that.
I don't know about Mexico, but

509
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:22,320
at least in the United States,
the facilities that house

510
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,880
animals like dolphins and whales
and sea lions and Penguins and

511
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,320
whatever are used to house all
of the animals that get injured

512
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,560
or beached or hurt in the ocean.
We did it all the time.

513
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,920
Pilot whales would come in after
getting just destroyed on the

514
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,280
beach and we'd rehab them and
put them back out into the

515
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,800
ocean.
If you shut that facility down,

516
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,800
where does that?
Where do where do they go now?

517
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,720
Where do they go?
So for me, if I could design my

518
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,480
own world, I'd be like, yeah, no
animals in captivity, none. 00.

519
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,840
I would hate, I would hate that.
Keep it all in nature, OK, But

520
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,280
we don't live in that world.
And so now we have to think

521
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,200
what's best for the animals that
are under our care.

522
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,680
I never would ever think putting
them in the ocean would be

523
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,720
better for them.
And if you if if go research it,

524
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,040
go Google and then make your own
opinion of survive.

525
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:15,720
I mean, no, no.
And just just the fact that

526
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,720
they're going in from perfectly
clean water that's analyzed and

527
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,440
monitored and made sure it's
perfect to the ocean.

528
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,160
Yeah, I mean, is a disastrous.
And then two, we lose our our

529
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,120
facilities, facilities and
infrastructure to help wild

530
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,000
animals.
Nobody, no organization,

531
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,840
rescues, saves, releases more
animals into the ocean more than

532
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,400
SeaWorld.
So you can hate SeaWorld for

533
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,760
having killer whales.
I understand why killer whales

534
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,120
should be in the ocean, but
they're not.

535
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,640
But you, you also have to
acknowledge that Seaworld's the

536
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,680
only one doing anything to help
those wild animals.

537
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,240
You got some other, you got
Marine Mammal Care Program up

538
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:56,720
and down the coast.
You have little ones, but

539
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,040
they're not doing the volume
that SeaWorld does because

540
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:00,760
SeaWorld has the space, they
have the money, they have the

541
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,840
staff, you know, so he does it.
I can get on my soapbox real

542
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:05,960
quick and get really.
Passive.

543
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,960
I like it.
I appreciate it.

544
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,360
And like, and I also appreciate
that, you know, you're willing

545
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,000
to just let this conversation go
wherever.

546
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,240
Yeah, of course.
But I think, yeah, try to get a

547
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:21,160
little bit back on track.
So what came first as far as

548
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,240
your interest in mental health?
Because you have you have this

549
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:30,360
series on YouTube where you're
helping to educate children and

550
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,920
I imagine does is that more in
your like animal wheelhouse?

551
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,880
How?
How did all of this happen?

552
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,400
Well, I mean, when I so when I
left, when I left the animal

553
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,640
training world, I moved to LA
because I wanted to be Steve

554
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,040
Irwin, Jeff Corwin, Jack Hanna,
right?

555
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,200
I was like, I'm going to have my
own show on TV with animals.

556
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,800
And that never happened.
And I got some gigs and did some

557
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,600
stuff and I was working.
But I, I never quote made it,

558
00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:01,680
you know, And then my boss today
he's he goes, hey, I want you

559
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,560
to, because I was doing all this
on camera work for animal stuff.

560
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,480
He goes, why don't you just do
some interviews with these

561
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,480
mental health doctors?
And I was like, I don't not a

562
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,120
mental health person.
And he's like, yeah, but you're

563
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:17,080
good on camera, go do this.
OK, Well, I interview, the 1st

564
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:18,640
doctor I interviewed was Doctor
Ramani.

565
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,440
She's a clinical psychologist.
And that video went to 15

566
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,320
million views on YouTube.
And my boss called me and goes,

567
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,400
you need to do more interviews
with these doctors.

568
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,280
I was like, OK, so then I just
started interviewing doctors.

569
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,480
And then he hired me and I quit
everything and went full time

570
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,560
interviewing these doctors.
And I went into a studio

571
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,680
everyday and interviewed doctors
from all over the world on

572
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,120
virtual, actually every mental
health, almost every mental

573
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,960
health condition.
And as I started in the mental

574
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,440
health space and getting
educated on the topic, now I

575
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,840
consider myself very educated on
the topic.

576
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:57,520
Eight years later, I haven't
talked to so many professionals

577
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:02,080
about parenting, so many, and
they all pretty much say the

578
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,840
same thing, that our children
need empathy and they need to

579
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:07,840
learn empathy and they need to
learn resilience.

580
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:09,840
And we're lacking in those two
areas.

581
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,000
They're learning a lot of other
stuff and a lot of other things

582
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,960
are good, but where we're
lacking is empathy and

583
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,640
resilience.
And in not to make a long story

584
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,040
even longer, but I go see what
my 3 year old nephew was

585
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,800
watching on YouTube and I looked
at his mom and was like, what

586
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,280
are we doing with this?
This is garbage.

587
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,200
Literally.
I can't even tell you what they

588
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:30,760
were watching.
It was so stupid.

589
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,200
And I go, we can make better
programming.

590
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,000
And so I just started with
animals because that's what I

591
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,400
know.
And then I was like, I want to

592
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,640
have an emotional intelligence
and emotional well-being

593
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,280
component to this show because
we are in that developmental

594
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,760
stage 23456.
These are the primal years.

595
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,240
This is where the kids are made
OK in this early childhood

596
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,320
development.
And so now we are hard in

597
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,480
empathy and resilience with the
language we use in the shows by

598
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,480
modeling it, by having them
interact with the show, by even

599
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,120
just them inadvertently learning
mantras from the show of

600
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,639
resilience and empathy.
There's lots of ways you can

601
00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:12,920
prime these kids, kids for the
future, you know, Because if you

602
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,800
are an empathic, resilient human
being who have such an edge, you

603
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,480
have a huge edge.
That is like you are a

604
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,440
superpower if you are empathic
and resilient.

605
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,040
Yeah, I, I, yes, say I got the
empathic part and I didn't get

606
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:28,800
the resilient part.
Don't recommend.

607
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,159
Don't recommend what?
Having empathy without

608
00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:35,440
resilience.
I don't recommend that at.

609
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,960
All yeah, it's nice to have both
for sure.

610
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,000
Nice to have both.
Yeah.

611
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:43,600
Well, and you just said that's
where like little humans are

612
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:49,719
made in these really, really
young years that I have been me

613
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,960
and and my best friend actually
both have been like going down

614
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,360
the rabbit hole of narcissism
lately because.

615
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,440
I know everything about that.
I can talk about narcissism for

616
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,640
sure.
Like we're, we're in this kind

617
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,840
of, we're in this place where
everything is, everything you

618
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,480
say is, oh, that's so
narcissistic.

619
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,400
There's such an art and and it's
like we're missing the forest

620
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,960
for the trees because it's not
everything is narcissism.

621
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,920
Not every everyone is a
narcissist and so the.

622
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,080
Ones.
Right.

623
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,520
And then the ones that truly
are, are getting a pass because

624
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,040
everyone is.
And.

625
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,560
It's like, I know, no.
Yeah.

626
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,000
Yeah, there's so there's so much
with with mental health and I

627
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,360
think a lot of that is like you
just said is shaped in

628
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,160
childhood.
Absolutely.

629
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:40,360
Appreciate it.
So you're using, you're using,

630
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,760
you're bird a lot.
In these yeah, so she comes she

631
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,880
comes on my kids show, which is
Bah Bah blast and that's on

632
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,560
YouTube and has it's on some
other streaming platforms, but

633
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,160
mostly on YouTube.
And she, I and I make these

634
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,760
videos with my nephew and they
started really because I was

635
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,800
like, let's hang out and make
better YouTube videos.

636
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,120
And then he got really into
being the director.

637
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,960
So now he directs, but we bring
the bird in Spire.

638
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,280
She's the inspiration macaw.
So when we're on a journey and

639
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,600
we're low on inspiration, we
meet Spire and then she reminds

640
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,000
us all these cool things and
good things that have happened

641
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,360
to us and we get inspired to
continue on with our journey.

642
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,160
And so she's, you know, I like
to consider her an ambassador

643
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,040
for her species, but also for
the show.

644
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,200
And it's cool.
You know, one of my favorite

645
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,440
things I did when I worked
professionally as an animal

646
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,160
trainer was name of it.
And I've done 100 of them.

647
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,520
Oh, the Make a Wish Foundation
because yes, you're helping

648
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,720
these children who are in just
unthinkable circumstances.

649
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:47,640
But for these these kids to meet
a dolphin or see the largest

650
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,240
flighted parrot, like they are
just so amped.

651
00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:53,160
You know, like I'm not trying to
bag on dogs, but they've seen a

652
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,080
dog probably, but they might not
have seen these other amazing

653
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:57,880
animals.
And so that's really fun.

654
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,160
So to be able to kind of do that
for kids with Spire because I do

655
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,280
a lot of in person events too.
It's so fun.

656
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,640
I mean, they're just, you know,
mouth open, enamoured, you know,

657
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,760
and you have you have to get
kids passionate about the things

658
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:18,320
you want them to care for.
And I want kids to care for

659
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:23,080
their natural world and for them
to start to care about this

660
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,160
world, they have to fall in love
with it.

661
00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:29,720
And so I try to showcase the
animals and nature component

662
00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:31,680
hard on blah, blah, blah.
We look what?

663
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,720
Look what's out here.
Look what we live in.

664
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,760
Look how amazing this is.
Isn't don't you love this?

665
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:38,880
And they're like, yeah, because
they will protect what they

666
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:39,640
love.
That's so.

667
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,080
Much because we're in, we're in
bad shape right now, our

668
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,960
society, I think.
So tough out there.

669
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,200
Yeah, it is really tough.
So with some mental health

670
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,120
aspect of everything you do
because you do a lot.

671
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,960
I really, it's one of the things
I know I probably mentioned to

672
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:05,120
you the last time we spoke was
that this year especially, I

673
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,640
have really been trying to bring
in a component to the show for

674
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:14,120
the pet parents and realizing
that my audience, the people

675
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,560
that are listening to this right
now, generally speaking, are

676
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,800
going to be people who we call 2
point O pet parents.

677
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,760
These are the people who they're
not just doing, you know,

678
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:29,080
whatever is at Petco, PetSmart
doing the basic training class

679
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,080
like and calling it a day.
These are the people who are

680
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:36,200
like, who are questioning the
status quo, who are questioning

681
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,000
why we're giving so many
vaccines.

682
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,280
They're questioning.
My dream clients.

683
00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:44,320
Yes, like they're, they're
questioning things and they're

684
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:49,400
looking for more natural
alternatives to raising their

685
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,080
animals.
And what I find is that when we

686
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:57,400
get on this path, whether it's I
saw this in rescue a lot, the

687
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,560
burnout that's in rescue,
there's certainly burnout in the

688
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,520
veterinary industry.
I'm sure you've seen quite a bit

689
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,880
of, of burnout.
But people who are this

690
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,680
passionate about their animals,
again, something that you give

691
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,000
to that you're, you are getting
back, but you're not getting

692
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,160
back in the same way that you
would with like a job or you

693
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,520
know what I mean?
Like you're not getting the same

694
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,880
type of return on your
investment.

695
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,560
You do get that burnout.
We're not caring for ourselves

696
00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:28,880
the way we should.
And that affects our pets when

697
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,400
we're burnt out, when we're
stressed out, when we're

698
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,120
anxious, when we're sick
physically, when we're sick

699
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:38,600
mentally, it affects our pets.
And so it is something that I

700
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:43,880
have been very aware of and
trying to bring into this

701
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,280
podcast this year especially.
So I know I went through some

702
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,800
things that I shared with, I
shared with like my core group

703
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:56,000
of audience earlier this year
that I, I went through some

704
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,880
therapy.
I needed therapy to, to help me

705
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:03,120
to make sure that my head was on
straight, that I went through

706
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,200
something very traumatic.
And I wanted to make sure that I

707
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,800
was processing the way I was
supposed to be processing that I

708
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,720
was.
Healing and not remaining

709
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:16,440
stagnant in that like traumatic
energy.

710
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:21,480
And so I have become more
passionate about therapy and

711
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:26,240
using it appropriately.
At the same time, I think we

712
00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:31,240
talked about in our society
right now, I do feel like people

713
00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:33,600
are identifying as their
diagnosis.

714
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,920
Diagnosis.
How do you say that word?

715
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:42,320
I don't know what I'm saying.
Like that is really, that's

716
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,360
troubling to me.
Like that's unhealthy to me.

717
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:47,880
So using therapy in an
appropriate way.

718
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:52,160
And so I'd love for you to talk
a little bit about how

719
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:56,160
interviewing these mental health
experts has changed your life.

720
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,560
Well, I'll start by a disclaimer
saying I'm not a doctor.

721
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,680
Not I'm not, I'm a lay person,
but I do have this.

722
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,320
I mean, I I've, I've sat down
with doctors multiple times a

723
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,360
week, sometimes every day for
eight years.

724
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:14,560
This past weekend I filmed a 15
hour course all on trauma for 15

725
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:18,760
hours straight over 2 days.
So two, fifth, whatever, 7 or 8

726
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:24,360
hours a day trauma, OK with with
one of the world's, I mean, when

727
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,240
after the trauma course, he was
flying to Oxford to go teach.

728
00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:30,680
He's the trauma guy.
OK, I want to, so I want to talk

729
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,360
about a little trauma stuff
because everyone's going through

730
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:34,880
that.
But let's, let's also talk about

731
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:36,160
the burnout.
Burnout.

732
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:40,400
We talked a lot at Med circle,
especially during COVID because

733
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:45,520
people were burned out.
And I want people to 1st go

734
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,360
through a process of determining
whether or not they're burned

735
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:52,080
out or whether or not they're
just stressed.

736
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,600
They're they're going through a
rough patch.

737
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,600
It's been a rough week.
Maybe it's been a rough month.

738
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,840
Sometimes people refer that to a
brownout.

739
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:02,440
It's like, we'll call it one
step below a burnout.

740
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,640
Not to minimize anyone's
experience, but if you're really

741
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,960
in a burnout where like you
mentioned Jessica there, you're

742
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:14,080
physically sick, you aren't
really being productive.

743
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:19,600
You your brain cannot function.
And even after a 2 day weekend

744
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,400
get away at the spa where you
didn't look at your phone and

745
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,680
you didn't touch you, you're not
any better on Monday.

746
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,960
You know, that's burnout.
The doctors I've talked to

747
00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:33,520
unfortunately, and I normally
try to be very hopeful, but this

748
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:38,080
is I also honesty before
everything the doctors I've

749
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:42,400
talked to unfortunately goes if
you are burnt out, the really

750
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:47,040
the only way to get out of that
burnout is to take an extended

751
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,920
period of time.
This could be ideally months.

752
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,480
If you could take months away
and most people are going to

753
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,800
hear that and be like nice life.
You can't just quit my job and

754
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:58,960
not take care of my kids and
like blah, blah, blah.

755
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,640
But I'm just telling you what
the ideal scenario would be.

756
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:08,160
You need 3456 months to let your
body recalibrate because of this

757
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,640
is not a massage is not going to
fix burnout.

758
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,600
OK.
If you don't have that, which

759
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:20,960
most people don't, it is
critical that you and I hate

760
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,680
everyone.
I just hate stuff we've already

761
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,920
heard.
But sometimes the reason you

762
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,800
keep hearing it is because it's
the right answer.

763
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:33,160
It's the truth.
You must create a schedule that

764
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:38,920
prioritizes your your self-care,
self-care #1 and self-care.

765
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,680
Some people define it
differently.

766
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,600
My definition of self-care is
anything that's good for me.

767
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:49,960
So I love sitting on the couch
and binging Netflix.

768
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,160
Love it.
I love to rot on the couch.

769
00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:54,600
That feels good for me.
And then I and then the next day

770
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,120
I'm like, yeah, I did that.
And I can go do something else

771
00:43:57,240 --> 00:44:01,360
that's good for me.
I and I like doing it. self-care

772
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,120
for me is also exercise, but I
don't like exercise.

773
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,280
But I go do it because it's good
for me.

774
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,960
It's part of myself.
I'm better when I exercise.

775
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,000
I spoke to a doctor this
weekend, the trauma Dr. and he

776
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,120
goes I don't agree with your
definition of self-care.

777
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:20,200
I think self-care is good for
you and it feeds your soul.

778
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,600
So for you Kyle, exercise
doesn't feed your soul.

779
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:27,120
I go definitely not.
It is just a thing on the To Do

780
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,000
List and he goes, I wouldn't put
that as self-care for you.

781
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:31,920
I go, OK, so whatever you're
there.

782
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,000
I'm just giving options for
people to consider.

783
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:39,440
But you, you, you, you have to
do it and you have to do it for

784
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,320
your own life, for your own
life.

785
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:47,960
If the burnout manifested as
markings all over your face, you

786
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:53,240
would address it immediately.
If a big Marks and lesions came

787
00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:56,720
on your face because of burnout
and you would address it

788
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:00,280
immediately.
And that is happening internally

789
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,000
and both mentally and
physically.

790
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:07,120
So treat this as though you have
lesions on your face.

791
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,760
That's how severe this is.
And start to prioritize that

792
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:12,920
self-care.
And that might mean your

793
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:17,920
production at work goes down and
that might mean your spouse has

794
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,280
to jump in more to help out with
the kids.

795
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:25,320
And that might mean that you
don't spend every single minute

796
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,400
with your kids.
I mean, this is what I'm talking

797
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,760
about.
These are drastic changes, but

798
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,280
you do it for you do it for
yourself.

799
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:33,320
For those going through burnout.
It's tough.

800
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,840
It's really, really tough.
And I'm sorry you're going

801
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,240
through that.
You're not alone.

802
00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:41,280
Going through it and finding a
community out is also very

803
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:42,920
helpful.
And finally, the trauma.

804
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:45,440
You know what I learned this
weekend after doing the trauma

805
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,200
course?
And it's always interesting.

806
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:48,920
I've been talking about trauma
for eight years with

807
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,880
professionals, and I still sit
there and learn something.

808
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:56,280
Fun thing, he said his name is
Doctor Frank Anderson.

809
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,880
He said the clue is in the
behavior.

810
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:05,680
And what he meant by that was if
you're binge drinking or eating

811
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:10,560
fast food all the time or using
drugs or exercising all the time

812
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:17,080
or working 60 hours or 70 hours
a week, those are all clues into

813
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,760
your unresolved trauma.
So when you start, because a lot

814
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,320
of people think, Oh, my trauma,
I don't, I'm not impacted by my

815
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,160
trauma.
Now that happened so long ago.

816
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,960
I'm not impacted by my trauma.
I go, yeah, but look how much

817
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:31,520
you're drinking or look at look
at, look at how short tempered

818
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:35,280
you are with your children.
Look at how your dog that you

819
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,480
bought and you love and you're
like love, but you are like

820
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:42,640
irritated by that dog, the clues
in those behaviors.

821
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,440
And so getting curious, you
don't want to be judgmental

822
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,160
because then that just makes the
trauma worse.

823
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,520
But if you can get curious, and
I wonder why, I wonder why I'm

824
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,720
having a bottle of wine every
night because that is more than

825
00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:55,040
maybe I should be drinking.
And it's every night.

826
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,560
And you start to think about
that curious curiously, not

827
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:01,520
judgmental curious.
I wonder why I do that.

828
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:05,680
I'm, I'm protecting myself from
something I'm not, I'm, I'm

829
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,400
there is a protective factor.
I'm not just doing it because I

830
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,000
like to drink, you know, So that
was one to be the clues on the

831
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:13,320
behavior.
So I think when people start to

832
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,880
think about that, it curiously,
not judgmentally, I think it's

833
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,240
very nice.
The three steps to healing that

834
00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:22,880
trauma is 1 safely.
And doing it with a therapist

835
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,760
for a lot of people is, is
really a nice way to do it, but

836
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,600
it's not the only way.
But expressing that traumatic

837
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:33,280
event and there's a difference
between reliving it and we're

838
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,920
not suggesting that and visiting
it, which is what we want to do.

839
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,920
We want to visit the trauma.
And maybe you can only visit it

840
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,400
for a few seconds to begin with,
but eventually get to a point

841
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,800
where you can, you could write
out what happened, how you were

842
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:51,520
feeling, what the weather was
like, what what, who was there

843
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,520
for you, who wasn't there for
you, why you were angry about

844
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,240
it, why, whatever, whatever it
is, all the details and just

845
00:47:58,240 --> 00:48:00,760
acknowledge it just literally
pointed out this is what

846
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:02,120
happened.
This is what happened, this is

847
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:03,920
what happened, and here's all
the details for it.

848
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:09,640
That's step number one.
And step number 2 is to then

849
00:48:09,720 --> 00:48:15,240
find love and connection.
He said something about how the

850
00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:20,720
traumatic event isn't
necessarily the biggest culprit

851
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,600
of whether or not you will have
symptoms related to the

852
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:28,120
traumatic event.
Where, where, where, whether or

853
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,000
not you would develop PTSD or
not.

854
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,440
More comes from what happened
after the traumatic.

855
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:37,880
If you were abused as a child
and no one came to save you or

856
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:42,160
help you or tell you you're
safe, that trauma is going to

857
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:46,000
stick.
If you're abused as a child, but

858
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,760
then your parents came to you
and surrounded you with love and

859
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:50,840
connection and support, trauma
still sucks.

860
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:52,400
You're still going to have stuff
from the trauma.

861
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,920
Not dismissing that, but that
loving connection heals so much

862
00:48:55,920 --> 00:49:00,400
of it right afterwards.
So now going back to these

863
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:04,560
steps, if I can look, if I can
acknowledge what happened,

864
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,800
express what happened.
I haven't, I haven't told him

865
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,760
Jessica, I go, what if I
expressed it to my AI because I

866
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,200
don't have a therapist?
He goes do it, express it to

867
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,840
something I said to your dog.
I tell my bird everything you

868
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:21,080
know, tell tell your bird.
And then you find that love and

869
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,560
connection you can.
That's hard for people to do

870
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:26,920
because people feel like they
don't deserve love and

871
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,800
connection.
They feel like they're a burden

872
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:33,440
for wanting love and connection.
They feel like they have to give

873
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,760
love.
They have to give of themselves.

874
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:41,040
I want you to be a taker.
I want you to be a selfish taker

875
00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:44,760
in Step 2, OK?
And then in the step three,

876
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:48,800
recognize those moments and they
will likely be small moments in

877
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,440
the beginning, but recognize
those small moments of healing

878
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,480
where the door slammed and you,
your heart wasn't.

879
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:56,840
You didn't panic and start heart
racing.

880
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,600
If you were in a car accident.
You get into the car and you

881
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,800
were like, oh, I drove three
blocks without even panicking.

882
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,400
That's pretty good because
normally I panic the whole time.

883
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,720
Those small little moments of
healing, those three steps,

884
00:50:09,720 --> 00:50:15,440
simple to say, very complicated
to actually do, and not easy to

885
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,560
do, OK.
But there is a path forward

886
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:20,280
through trauma.
There really is.

887
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,800
Healing is possible.
I watch and hear and see people

888
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:27,080
heal all the time, every day.
We have that.

889
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,640
We have millions of people who
watch a Met circle, millions all

890
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:35,160
over the world and they have
unimaginable trauma and they do

891
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,360
the work, quote UN quote, and
they experience healing.

892
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:43,960
Now does healing look like
you're 100% back to your normal

893
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,040
self, whatever that was?
Does healing look like I never

894
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,680
think about that traumatic thing
that happened to me anymore.

895
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:55,560
No, but you get your life back.
You see a future, you start to

896
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:59,480
get excited about the future.
Those things, those things are

897
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:00,280
good.
It's hard.

898
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:05,080
I think if you're excited about
the future, it's that doesn't

899
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,640
jive well with symptoms of
trauma.

900
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:09,640
I think that's one another
little win.

901
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,280
If you're like, man, I'm excited
about next year, good for you.

902
00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:13,720
You're healing.
You're.

903
00:51:13,720 --> 00:51:17,120
Healing, Yeah, yeah.
I think a couple of things that

904
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:22,960
I've been learning is that
healing is a journey and not a

905
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:24,680
destination.
Absolutely.

906
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:32,080
Also that it is, it's OK to, and
we should continue to live our

907
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:36,880
lives and move forward while
we're still healing.

908
00:51:37,240 --> 00:51:40,880
Like it's not something that I
see a lot of people who are

909
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,040
like, I have to heal.
I have these things I need to

910
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,920
heal from.
And then they like stagnate in

911
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:50,520
their life because they want to
be healed, especially when it

912
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:54,320
comes to like relationships.
And I think also to there are

913
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,880
some relational traumas that can
only be healed in a healthy

914
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,440
relationship.
And you've got to get there to,

915
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:04,040
for that to happen.
And there's, it's not black and

916
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:08,200
white is very complex, but to
tell people that you know, to

917
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:09,960
keep living your life, it's
something.

918
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,200
The best you can and that will
look different day-to-day.

919
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,720
You know, I was diagnosed with
depression when I was nine years

920
00:52:15,720 --> 00:52:19,480
old.
And if I go off my meds, you

921
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,480
know, you will find me in the
dark room in the bed, OK, I'm

922
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:24,600
not coming out.
It is disastrous.

923
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:28,000
And that's what I can manage to
do on those days, you know, and

924
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,640
then other days, get out and
take a walk and it looks good.

925
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:36,040
I I don't want to pry, Jessica.
So don't obviously, you know,

926
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,560
don't there's no obligation, of
course.

927
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,520
But when you're you went through
something recently that was

928
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,320
traumatic, was it because most,
this is most people, most emails

929
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,640
I get.
Was it relationship oriented?

930
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:49,920
The trauma?
Yeah.

931
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:55,680
So unsolicited, Dr. Romney, who
is my go to on narcissism,

932
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:58,560
narcissistic abuse specifically.
She is the queen.

933
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:00,720
Whatever she says is what I
believe.

934
00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:05,360
OK, when it comes to this topic.
And I have probably banked, I

935
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:08,320
mean, it's got to be 500 hours
of talking to her about

936
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,280
narcissism over the over the
year, maybe more than that,

937
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,000
maybe more.
And I've read all our books and

938
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,520
blah, blah.
OK, so one thing is that healing

939
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:20,120
part, she always tells the
people that she works with, if

940
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:23,800
you are out of an of a
narcissistic relationship,

941
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:29,080
please with every ability you
have, please stay single for a

942
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:32,000
year, at least one full year.
And she goes, there's so many

943
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:33,960
reasons and there's no perfect
time.

944
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:37,840
It's not like after a year, but
if you go through a year, you go

945
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:40,600
through all of the
anniversaries, all of the

946
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:45,320
holidays, all of the seasons,
changing all of the things that

947
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:47,560
you went through probably on the
relationship.

948
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,760
And it gives you 1 full little
cycle of like, all right, I've

949
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,120
done Christmas, I've done New
Year's, I've done birthday, I've

950
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:54,880
done our anniversary, I've done
them all.

951
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,880
I got one under my belt, single,
just focused on me, you know,

952
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,640
and the really fun play.
The real part I think of getting

953
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:07,520
out of a narcissistic
relationship is that you get to

954
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:13,400
get reintroduced to you.
You get to be like, wait, I love

955
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:18,440
Italian food and go eat Italian
because my freaking narcissistic

956
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,160
boyfriend always took us to get
sushi.

957
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,600
And then you're like, Oh my God,
like I can just stay up late

958
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:25,680
tonight.
Like I'm going to, I love

959
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:27,640
staying up late on a Tuesday.
This is fun.

960
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,880
You get to meet yourself again.
And it's a lot of and it's

961
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:35,680
mostly women because more men
are narcissists than women in my

962
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,560
opinion.
And what some research indicates

963
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,200
these, these women get excited
because they're like, this is

964
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:42,640
fun.
This is fun.

965
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:46,240
I'm out of that and I'm
rediscovering myself.

966
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:50,840
So I hope that people who are
going through that journey, and

967
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:52,840
if you're going through that
journey, Jessica, that you start

968
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:58,040
to have some of those moments.
They are fun when you get them,

969
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:02,440
when you realize you're like, I
can do whatever I want now.

970
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:05,280
I know.
And you realize you like you

971
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:07,560
like stuff.
You're like, I like that.

972
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,160
And you're and you're like, oh,
I don't like doing that.

973
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,320
It's like when I dated, I don't
date anymore.

974
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:14,800
I'm chronically single by
choice.

975
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:19,680
And I but when I dated, people
would people would go, do you

976
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,080
like to hike?
And I would always be like,

977
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:27,840
yeah, which is a lie.
I hate that I don't want to go

978
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:30,080
on a hike.
But I would say yes, because I

979
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:31,840
like wanted to be liked, you
know?

980
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:34,000
And then when you're you're
like, I don't like hiking.

981
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:35,880
I get to not like hiking, you
know?

982
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:42,200
Yeah, no, it is very interesting
to to go from accommodating

983
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:46,200
everything to I don't, I don't
have to accommodate anything.

984
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:53,280
It is very interesting for sure.
So, OK, with all of this that

985
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,800
you've been doing with Med
circle, we talked a little bit

986
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,760
at the beginning or mentioned,
you know, that the human animal

987
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:00,480
bond.
And I think I'm you certainly

988
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:04,880
don't have to, you know, talk
too deeply about losing your

989
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,320
dog.
But I'm sure there were a lot of

990
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:11,800
tactics that you found from Med
circle that that were helpful

991
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:13,600
going through that sort of
grief.

992
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:18,080
And you know, for me, when I
with what I do, because I do

993
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:22,040
work one-on-one with clients to
help, I generally have them

994
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:25,880
coming to me because their their
pet is sick in some form or

995
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:30,520
fashion.
And I see so much overlap in a

996
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:35,760
disease that a dog or a cat has
and physical ailments or

997
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:39,160
diseases that the pet parent has
had.

998
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:42,360
There's so much in this human
animal bond that I think we

999
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:46,480
don't really give credit to on a
day-to-day basis.

1000
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:53,880
And this is just one way I see
it, but I also see it in how

1001
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:58,400
they can help heal us.
So I'm curious, you know, in

1002
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:02,360
this journey you've had with
this really incredible deep dive

1003
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:06,880
into the mental health world,
how you see animals fitting into

1004
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,720
that?
In so many ways I'm trying to

1005
00:57:09,720 --> 00:57:13,280
pick some of my best learnings
from Med circle.

1006
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:16,280
Yeah.
The first animal I ever saw die

1007
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,520
was a 67 year old dolphin,
Amiko, named Amiko.

1008
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:22,120
And I walked into work and he
was at the bottom of the pool

1009
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:26,160
dead.
And my boss at the time, it was

1010
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,360
a very authoritative,
authoritarian boss.

1011
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:33,880
He he goes get in the pool and
dive down there and bring that

1012
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:35,840
dolphin back up and put it in
the stretcher.

1013
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,880
And me and another trainer did
it was terrible.

1014
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,400
It was the first dolphin I ever
had a relationship with.

1015
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:43,360
And he was, he was a blind
dolphin.

1016
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:47,000
So all of his cues were tactile.
You would just basically draw on

1017
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:48,400
his body.
And that was the cue for

1018
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:50,720
whatever we were trying to do.
And I call and I went home and I

1019
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:54,080
called my dad and I said, I
don't know if I want to do this.

1020
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:55,360
Like I don't know if it's worth
it.

1021
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:59,120
Like I love it and it's my dream
job, but I don't know if the

1022
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:02,880
sacrifices, you look at all the
other animals and you're like,

1023
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:05,480
OK, it's worth it.
And animals die.

1024
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:08,200
Animals die.
I have to remind myself that

1025
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:09,760
happens.
I die.

1026
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:15,600
Back then, I was in my 20s.
I had no experience coping with

1027
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:17,560
grief.
I I, I had experience coping

1028
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:19,920
with grief.
I had no knowledge of how the

1029
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:22,600
best way to cope with grief.
My mom died when I was 16.

1030
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:26,160
I had grieved a lot in my life,
but I never knew how to grieve.

1031
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,880
And there is better ways to do
it.

1032
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:32,720
When my dog died this year, I
was, it's kind of like I was

1033
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:35,520
ready.
I was like, OK, dogs died.

1034
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:37,280
I'm ready to go with my grief.
Here we go.

1035
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:41,200
And the number.
Well, the first thing is I'm a

1036
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:45,000
very, very big proponent of
somatic experiencing.

1037
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:47,320
And they have somatic
experiencing therapy, which is

1038
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:50,880
great for anyone who's dealt
with trauma to look into and

1039
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:53,120
essentially somatic.
I love this example.

1040
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:55,680
This is how it was taught to me.
And as animal lovers, you guys

1041
00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:58,080
will get this.
If you look at animals in the

1042
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:02,360
wild, they almost never develop
what we would consider post

1043
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:04,880
traumatic stress disorder.
They almost never developed

1044
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:07,680
those set of symptoms.
And they go through the most

1045
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:12,200
traumatic things everyday.
Like a rabbit literally has to

1046
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:15,760
run for its life on a daily
basis so it doesn't get eaten

1047
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,800
alive.
And you will watch a coyote

1048
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:21,960
chase a rabbit and the rabbit
will evade capture.

1049
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:26,960
And then the next thing it does
once it realizes, OK, I, I

1050
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:29,440
evaded the coyote.
It shakes.

1051
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:31,880
It moves its whole body, shakes
it out, it moves its leg.

1052
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:35,440
And sometimes you'll see dogs
after they get out of a kennel

1053
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:37,880
shake or after they get bathed,
they shake.

1054
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:39,600
And some people are like, yeah,
it's because they've been cooped

1055
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:41,520
up and they're, they want to
shake out the water.

1056
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,480
They want to shake out that.
And maybe that's right.

1057
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:47,640
But what I believe is that
they're shaking out any trauma

1058
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,040
or shaking out their trauma.
And they do that so that they

1059
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:54,720
can shake out their trauma and
go back to eating grass.

1060
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:57,880
And they do so in a matter of
seconds, the rabbit shakes and

1061
00:59:57,880 --> 00:59:59,840
then eats grass like nothing had
ever happened.

1062
00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:03,840
We don't do that as people when
something traumatizes us.

1063
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:08,120
I get into a car accident, I'm
like, OK, I got to call 911.

1064
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:09,760
All right?
I got to go see if the other

1065
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:12,000
person's OK.
All right, now I have to talk to

1066
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,520
the police.
Now I have to call my boyfriend

1067
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:16,480
to come pick me up.
Now I have to do a report.

1068
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:19,200
And you go hours and hours
keeping it together, keeping it

1069
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:22,320
focused, keeping your.
Everything right, Because you

1070
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:25,120
have to, OK.
And then you get home and you're

1071
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:28,200
just like, OK, all right, I
think maybe I'll have a glass of

1072
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:31,680
wine now.
And you've never just let it

1073
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:33,560
out.
Never gone.

1074
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:37,280
I think if we let it out more,
we would have less trauma.

1075
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:39,600
Bad things are going to happen
to us.

1076
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,760
But if we let it out after they
happen to us, I think we'll

1077
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:46,720
experience less trauma.
And so when my dog died, OK,

1078
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:49,880
which was the worst, I cried
hard.

1079
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,200
And I didn't hold back well.
And people were around, my

1080
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:54,640
friends were over, my family was
over.

1081
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:57,560
And I was letting it RIP.
And I was letting it RIP because

1082
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:00,000
I was mourning and I was having
this intense feeling of grief.

1083
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,520
And I knew I got to get this
out.

1084
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:05,800
This is my chance.
This is like the window of

1085
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:08,800
opportunity.
And when everyone left, I cried

1086
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:11,920
even harder.
I cried so hard that I threw up.

1087
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:14,440
I've never thrown up from
crying.

1088
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:18,240
I cried harder when my dog died
than when my mom died.

1089
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:21,520
Not because I mourned them any
more or less than the other, but

1090
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:25,640
because I knew that all these
emotions and feelings I were

1091
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,800
having to get them out was the
best thing to do, not to

1092
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:32,760
swallow.
The next day I woke up and

1093
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:36,040
immediately felt that flood of
emotions coming in and I made a

1094
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:39,240
choice to push them down because
I was done crying.

1095
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:41,000
I was over it.
I didn't want to cry anymore.

1096
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:42,520
I've been crying all night.
Yeah.

1097
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:45,600
So I pushed them down and I
talked to the doctors and I go,

1098
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:47,040
look, I did this.
I pushed them down.

1099
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:49,360
What do you think?
And they go, look, you get to

1100
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:51,080
grieve however you want.
If you want to push them down,

1101
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:52,720
push them down.
And you know what you did?

1102
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:54,600
You realized you were pushing
them down.

1103
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:58,840
You were mindful of that.
Most of us are pushing it down.

1104
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:00,480
We don't even know we're doing
it.

1105
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:04,400
Right.
And so there are so many ways to

1106
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:07,360
heal from, from trauma.
And I know we're talking about

1107
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:09,400
trauma again, I can't even
remember your original question,

1108
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:13,880
but the, oh, the human bond with
the animals.

1109
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:18,880
But I think if you, you know,
shake it out when you're, when

1110
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:20,840
something traumatic happens,
there's a lot of benefits to

1111
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,840
that.
And it goes to, to bring it back

1112
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:27,600
to your question with the, the
bond with humans, animals have a

1113
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:29,720
soul.
Everyone listening to this would

1114
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:32,760
agree with that because they're
listening to the Pet Parenting

1115
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:36,400
Reset podcast.
I don't know if everybody on the

1116
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,480
planet believes that, but this
group right here believes that

1117
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:45,800
animals have a soul, human have
a soul, and those souls of those

1118
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:49,440
combine.
And I don't even think we know

1119
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:53,520
what the implications of our
what that really means, but I

1120
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:56,800
know it for a fact.
I believe it's so much to be

1121
01:02:56,800 --> 01:03:02,920
true because I have felt my soul
intertwined with that of a whale

1122
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:07,840
and with that of a dolphin and
with that of many birds and of

1123
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:11,520
that with my dog.
And it's an intertwining it

1124
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:14,320
different.
It's different than than, oh,

1125
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:18,160
this is my pet and you said, and
I give you a treat and you like

1126
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:20,480
me because of it.
And it's not that this is this

1127
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:21,920
is deep.
It's spiritual.

1128
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:26,000
I'm not a religious person or
even a spiritual person, but

1129
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,480
that is that to me is spiritual
on that people have with

1130
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:32,000
animals.
That is a spiritual thing

1131
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:34,120
happening, I think.
Is that too woo woo?

1132
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:37,360
No, you have no idea how woo woo
this podcast gets.

1133
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:39,960
I like a little woo woo every
now and then.

1134
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:43,480
I yeah, I do too.
I have, I love my animal

1135
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:47,400
communicator friends and my
yeah, it's it's it's fun.

1136
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:47,960
I have some fun.
I.

1137
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:53,320
Believe in animal psychics.
And then I met this horse

1138
01:03:53,320 --> 01:04:00,280
psychic and I was like, you, you
are blowing my mind.

1139
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:03,920
Like she blew my mind.
And I was like, and maybe that

1140
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:07,440
goes back to this soul thing.
Like maybe some people are just

1141
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:11,760
more open to connect soulfully
with an animal and they have

1142
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:12,680
that.
I don't have that.

1143
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:15,960
I'm not a psychic and I'm a
behaviorist at heart.

1144
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:18,680
I like behavior.
So anyway.

1145
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:23,040
Yeah, well, my very good friend
Karen Dindy Smith would tell you

1146
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:26,480
that if you want to talk to
animals, you have the ability,

1147
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:28,440
you just have to practice.
Yeah.

1148
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:33,760
Well, yeah, I think we did get a
little deep, which is great.

1149
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:35,480
I love it.
I think it's probably a good

1150
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:38,880
place to end.
I want to thank you for your

1151
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:43,200
time and for your knowledge and
for coming to talk to all of us

1152
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:47,240
and to help us understand a
little bit better some things we

1153
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:51,480
may not have thought about,
especially when it comes to some

1154
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:56,640
of the wild and exotic animals
that are in captivity for

1155
01:04:56,640 --> 01:05:00,640
various reasons.
And I very much appreciate all

1156
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:03,640
of the content that you're
helping to put out for Med

1157
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:08,680
Circle because especially now
with today, like we need, we

1158
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:13,080
need help.
We need to, I think, realize

1159
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:16,160
that we need help and seek out
the best places that what

1160
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:20,840
resonates for us and places to
confide in, to learn, to grow,

1161
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:24,720
to care for ourselves better.
And when we do that, we can care

1162
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:26,200
for our pets better, in my
opinion.

1163
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:29,920
So I just want to say thank you.
And if you have any, like final

1164
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:32,440
parting words, if there's
anything you want to tell people

1165
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:35,520
listening.
Well, thank you for letting me

1166
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:37,120
come on.
It's such an honor to share.

1167
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:39,840
Share the space with you, as
they say.

1168
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:47,080
I just, if anyone's listening to
this right now, please, please

1169
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:51,320
practice putting yourself 1st.
And I and I, and I know that can

1170
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:54,280
sound kind of silly because
like, no, no, we need to be

1171
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:58,400
giving and we need to share.
And yeah, I know, OK, We all

1172
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:01,280
know that.
And in mental health, people are

1173
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:04,040
not putting themselves first.
They're not.

1174
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:05,880
They jump from one thing to
another.

1175
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:09,280
It's the narcissistic abusive
relationship.

1176
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:12,000
And then they jump into some
toxic thing at work.

1177
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:14,560
And then they and they're just
giving and giving and giving and

1178
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:19,360
hoping someone gives back.
And I want you to just be all

1179
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:21,360
about you.
Be about you.

1180
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:25,680
And I went to therapy when I was
nine years old, and I started

1181
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:28,000
Med circle when I was 31, I
think.

1182
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:33,200
And I never learned what
cognitive behavioral therapy was

1183
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:34,600
until I was started on that
circle.

1184
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:40,160
And I had been in therapy since
I was 9 and doing CBT cognitive

1185
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,640
behavioral therapy for decades
and didn't even know I was doing

1186
01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:47,400
it.
And so I implore people to seek

1187
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:52,520
out a credentialed mental health
education because it is the game

1188
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:54,720
changer.
It is the game changer.

1189
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:57,280
You want to know why you do
these certain things.

1190
01:06:57,280 --> 01:06:59,720
You want to know why you end up
in these certain places.

1191
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:02,640
You want to know why you feel
this way, why you do this thing,

1192
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:06,360
why you have that thought.
There are there's insight,

1193
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:09,680
there's people who spend all
their careers looking at this.

1194
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:12,960
And I think Med circles the best
place to do that, obviously.

1195
01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:17,800
But wherever you do it, do it
because when you have that

1196
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:22,000
mental health psychology
education, every part of your

1197
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:25,200
life gets better.
And I can, I'm speaking from

1198
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:28,360
personal experience.
Every part of your life gets

1199
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:30,480
better.
I learned how to be empathic

1200
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:33,720
through Med circle.
I learned how to teach my nephew

1201
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:37,120
resilience through MET circle.
I learned how to be

1202
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:39,200
narcissistic, narcissist
resistant.

1203
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:42,360
There is a very low chance I
would ever end up with a

1204
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:45,040
narcissist because I I know the
handbook.

1205
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:47,880
I read it back and forth.
Especially if you're not dating

1206
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:49,680
Kyle, you're.
Not dating, but you know,

1207
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:52,720
narcissist, they can be a boss,
they can be a mother-in-law,

1208
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:54,480
they can be a lot of other
people.

1209
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:55,720
They can be your own frequent
parent.

1210
01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:59,200
And then and then if they are
your parent, how do you deal

1211
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:01,840
with that?
Because some people won't cut

1212
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:03,160
them out of their lives.
How do you deal with it?

1213
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,720
I know how to deal with it.
So it sets you up for success to

1214
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:10,640
have that education.
And so if that inspires you,

1215
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:13,600
check out the YouTube channel.
It's free on Med Circle.

1216
01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:16,279
Or if you're ready to do the
deep dive, you know we have a

1217
01:08:16,279 --> 01:08:19,600
great membership filled with a
community of like minded people

1218
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:23,800
at medcircle.com.
And that link will be in the

1219
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:26,800
show notes as well, guys.
And thank you again, Kyle, for

1220
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:28,000
being here.
It was such a pleasure.

1221
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:29,560
I had such a great time talking
with you.

1222
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:31,760
And with that, everyone
listening.

1223
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:33,560
I appreciate you.
Thank you so much for being

1224
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:35,120
here.
Please give your pets some extra

1225
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:37,240
love from me and Kyle this week.
Yeah.

1226
01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:39,040
And I will talk to you next
week.

1227
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:27,280
I'm not going to bring a sponsor
on this podcast who has some

1228
01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:29,320
fancy product that you don't
need.

1229
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:35,800
I decided to partner with Legacy
Biome because I believe in their

1230
01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:40,920
product, in the quality of the
FMT that they are providing.

1231
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:46,120
So when we talk about rebuilding
the gut microbiome, we can do

1232
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:51,440
that in a lot of different ways.
And I talk a lot about the ways

1233
01:10:51,440 --> 01:10:54,600
we can do that, including raw
goat's milk and fermented fish

1234
01:10:54,600 --> 01:11:00,920
stock, fermented vegetables,
specific types of probiotics

1235
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:05,160
sources, but one of those
specific types is going to be

1236
01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:09,000
FNT fecal microbiota transplant
therapy.

1237
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:15,040
And Legacy Biome is bringing us
the cleanest, most efficient,

1238
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:21,120
most effective in their enteric
coated capsules, which make it

1239
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:29,520
easy for us to give FMT therapy
to our dogs and now cats at home

1240
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:34,760
in the convenience of our home.
So yes, I want you to take a

1241
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:38,920
moment to consider if Legacy
Biome could be something that

1242
01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:42,680
your dog or cat needs.
I know I have used it in the

1243
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:46,400
past with my animals, most
recently with Kimberly.

1244
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:51,040
We have had a very stressful
year, and in that stressful year

1245
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:54,480
she has eaten some food that I
may not have wanted her to eat

1246
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:58,320
and we've had a few challenges
along the way.

1247
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:01,360
Not that she ate anything
horrible, don't get me wrong,

1248
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:05,240
but she has eaten some cat food
that maybe I didn't want her to

1249
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:08,120
eat.
She has maybe had some treats

1250
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:12,120
that I didn't want her to have.
And we've had some issues, I

1251
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:16,200
think mostly with stress.
But again, this gut brain access

1252
01:12:16,480 --> 01:12:22,080
and stress is a huge factor in
our gut health as well and in

1253
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:28,600
our mental health.
So I have used Legacy Biome FMT

1254
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:33,960
with Kimberly very recently and
I'm very happy to have Legacy

1255
01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:36,160
Biome sponsoring this podcast
this week.

1256
01:12:36,480 --> 01:12:41,280
So when we talk about our mental
health and our pets mental

1257
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:45,720
health, we can't help but talk
about that gut brain access and

1258
01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:49,680
how it all works together.
So yes, we're talking about

1259
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:52,320
behavior and we're talking about
training and all the things, but

1260
01:12:52,320 --> 01:13:00,560
we cannot, cannot overlook the
role of the gut in all of this.

1261
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:03,480
So when I was training dogs,
this was the first thing I

1262
01:13:03,480 --> 01:13:06,960
talked to people about.
And I, I have to say it was very

1263
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:09,280
difficult for a lot of people to
hear.

1264
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:12,600
They just wanted a quick, tell
me how to train my dog fixed.

1265
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:16,800
And that doesn't help if your
dog doesn't feel good.

1266
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:22,240
So if you think Legacy Biome
might be for you or not, not

1267
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:27,280
you, but your pet, your dog or
your cat, go to legacybiome.com.

1268
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:32,000
Use the code TPPR 10 to get 10%
off of your first order.

1269
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:35,960
I am very excited to see you
know the changes.

1270
01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:39,520
Tell me about the changes that
you see that you notice in your

1271
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:42,640
dog or your cat.
And if you have questions about

1272
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:47,080
how to measure all of that to
find out if your pet even needs

1273
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:50,760
it, please reach out to me.
I'm here for you, especially on

1274
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:52,880
Instagram direct message or
through the website

1275
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:56,640
thepetparentingreset.com.
You can meet message me there as

1276
01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:59,760
well.
With that, I want to say thank

1277
01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:04,600
you to Legacy Biome for
sponsoring this podcast and for

1278
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:08,880
giving us an incredible FNT
therapy for our pets.

1279
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:12,440
Go check out Legacy Biome at
legacybiome.com and use the code

1280
01:14:12,440 --> 01:14:15,680
TPPR 10 to get 10% off of your
first order.