227. Beyond Pills: Tvati’s Holistic Approach to Pet Mobility (with Dr. Kangas)

0:00 It's time to rethink how we raise our pets. A reset to naturally healthy dogs and cats. My name is Jessica. I'm a certified professional canine nutritionist, raw nutrition certified for dogs and cats, a holistic pet health coach, the founder of Wild Wellness Pet, and the host of the Pet Parenting Reset podcast, where every pet deserves the absolute best and every pet parent is welcome. Learn from the best holistic and integrative experts in veterinary medicine and nutrition every Tuesday right here on this podcast or get individualized help with your pet through one-on-one consultations and take a deep dive into the root cause with the Wild Wellness Bioenergetics at Home test kit.

0:47 If you've been feeling like there has to be something more, something better, a better way to raise healthier pets, welcome to the Pet Parenting Reset. Welcome back, pet parent. Today's episode is so cool. I'm so excited for this. It has been a while in the making, but I have Sean Cahill with us today from Tavati. And he was like, you know what? Let's bring Doctor Katie Kangas on with us. So you guys are probably familiar with Doctor Katie. She's been on the podcast a couple of times. She's absolutely amazing. One of my favorite people in the whole world. So Sean and Doctor Katie, welcome to the pet Parenting Reset. Thank you so much for being here with us. Thank. You. It's a pleasure to greet you. Absolutely.

1:27 I was going to say the same. So I'm really happy to be part of today. So thank you for having us and hosting this great topic. Yes, Tevadi is something that I learned about at Super Zoo this this year, 2025. And it was one of two products that everybody in our space, our little healthy pet space for just like this. These are the two products of the year. I like, I think we all were getting kind of burnt out looking for innovation. Like we hadn't seen innovation, we hadn't seen anything new for years and years and years. And then we get 2 products in one year and Tavadi is one of them. And so I would love to just start with Sean, if you would tell us a little bit about what Tavadi is, because that's a weird name that people are like, what is this? Yeah, well, look, it's great to be here and to have Doctor Katie also, and he is amazing.

2:19 So thank you for having us. Firstly, it's a privilege to be here. So Tavati is from the word Tervati and it's hard to say in our language, let alone other people saying it. So essentially we abbreviated the word to Tavati. Now Tavati is from the Cook Islands, which is essentially hibiscus bark or medicine juice, which is what the word actually means. Essentially it's a product, it's made of hibiscus bark, which has been in our our culture for centuries upon centuries that our traditional ancestors used for bones of tissue and cartilage healing, for workers, for sports people and just people within the island that have these sort of injuries, etcetera. That our founder, Doctor Matheson, AKA Cookie, we call him Cookie obviously being from the Cook Islands, was awarded a PhD to cut it, was awarded a scholarship to come to Australia.

3:13 Sorry to to become a doctor. Yeah, it's a fascinating story. It's something that's been around forever and a day in our traditional multi medicine that now we get the privilege to share with pet parents, but also humans. Yes. So it's a it's just great to be here. Well, thank you. And it so you connected with Doctor Katie who is I don't I don't want to mess this up like you're you're like the US ambassador or something. How are we doing this? We're going to wind this back because Tibati, it was in the emerging brands section at Super Zoo and we were like, well, we're a brand new product into a brand new market. So emerging brands is where we should be. And we had a small little stand and all of a sudden I seen this chick that I had a whole heap of hair rushing towards us with a whole heap of people. And it was actually Doctor Kangas's practice manager to Jessica.

4:04 And I'm like, well said to Romeo. I'm like, holy shit, there's a bunch of women coming towards us. You know what's going on here? What have we done? And it was Jessica had used to vatsi on herself before applying it to a dog, Hamilton. And she had told all these people, and to be honest, I didn't even know who Doctor Katie Kangas was. Like where Romeo and I are two Aussies, my background is some more and so Polynesian. And we have all these women running towards us and I'm like, this could be really good or really bad. So. Jessica basically used Tavati because she was, she found out about Tavati from Clayton Payne who has a podcast in the UK called the Pet Business Disruptors.

4:46 And he had gifted her a packet of artsy and she goes, well, I'm not using this on my dog till I test it on myself. So she used it on herself and I think she had an issue with her ankle or something or multiple issues. And within a very short period of time, she was getting around 0 pain. And what she had been previously suffering with, she wasn't suffering with with anymore. So come super zoo, we're standing there a, a chick with a whole heap of hair and a whole heap of exuberance comes running towards us and saying, I've been waiting to meet you guys. And by the way, here's this fit, here's this fit, here's this fit. And I'm like, oh man. And then she told us her story and, and that's where we started. The next thing I know, we, we basically spent most our time with Jessica and Clayton and, and Doctor Kangas throughout Super Zoo.

5:34 And we we formed very, very quickly, which I think is is one of the most amazing bonds that was just meant to be. Absolutely. Yeah, I'll just chime in on that, that Jessica did, as Shawn say, said she had tremendous results with herself and she actually broke her foot. And when we went to the natural naturally healthy pet in Orlando in May, we met Clayton there and he said you need this Tavati product and sent it to her. So she used it on herself and then Hamilton and got remarkable results on both herself and her dog. And so she had been telling me all kinds of information about it. And so I was eager to meet the Tabadi team.

6:14 And then as Sean said, we formed such a bond. I mean, just the energy of these guys and the value behind their intentions in this company, the sustainability of the product, the fact that it's indigenous medicine, clearly as an integrative and holistic, that it's so exciting to me that we have a plant medicine product with centuries of use behind it being, you know, effective. And now having global patents because it was, it's proven efficacy is so exciting. And then also from the veterinary space, the fact that this is not only natural, 2 natural ingredients and we can get into that, but that it's topical because there are so many pets, especially cats, but even dogs too, that, you know, we start getting into sort of an excess of supplements and people get concerned that they're giving too many things, there's too much stuff going in their food.

7:07 Is there some, you know, counteracting between some of the, you know, multiple things that they're being given and like you said, what an innovative new thing that not only is this effective, but that it's a topical product that doesn't even need to be ingested. So it's such a unique space that it's in and then to see it work, you know, and really helping to up regulate the healing of bone and joint tissue and cartilage, etcetera. So it's quite remarkable. I want to hear so much more about what you're seeing, how you're using it in your because you have so much experience as a veterinarian. But before we talk about what you're seeing, Sean, can you tell me what this like doctor Katie just said talked about there's two natural products. What?

7:52 It's so simple, but what is it? Then nature's intend to keep things simple. Yeah, I think. Yeah. And the thing for me is Tevati is made of two products. So the hibiscus we grow in the Cook Islands, we have 15 islands in the Cook Islands that's we have, there's an abundance of the actual tree. So when we harvest, we harvest by hand, the Kotinui and our, our locals do the harvesting for us. So there's 0 machinery in regards to the way that we harvest. And I think with that there's zero machinery. But we don't cut trees down and you know, so we only ever harvest 1/3 of bark off any given tree. So within 12 to 18 months, potentially a bit longer, the buck completely grows back on that tree because we're not a country where we're going to cut down trees to, to, to make a quick sale.

8:44 It's not what we're ever going to do because we need to keep, we need to keep mindful that our elders never did it. So why we we need to keep to stay true to what our ancestors did. And if we change that, then in our culture, then that means, you know, the sustainability and then the knock on effect to our culture and to our children who are learning from our legacy is ruined. And, and we will never, ever cut trees down to, to make a quick sale or make a quick buck. It's not about that. It's about sharing our traditional medicine, our traditional knowledge and the right way. And the key thing is sustainability. So in the Cook Islands, we harvest the the bark, which from the hibiscus tree we standardize.

9:25 We do all the processing in the Cook Islands at our own factory. The way that we standardize the hibiscus is with a machine called a mass spectrometer. Now it costs hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars, but we invested in this to make sure that every single time we harvest, the standardization and process of this product is exactly the same every single time, you know, and so then that product then gets sent to Florida. So we work with a Co Packer there that's GMP certified. It's got the best QCQA process that there is that we could find. And the carrier is organic coconut oil and that's the only two products that the ingredients within that makes Tabasi. So, you know, as I said, didn't nature intend to keep things simple, you know, things that come from the ground? We, we are just maintaining what comes from the ground, keeping it very, very simple.

10:17 And again, like Doctor Katie said, it's, it's topical, you know, so with pets, we rub it on to the animal's neck. It absorbs into their bloodstream and treats them systemically. So essentially it treats them overall, you know, so there's no need of trying to shove it down their throats or trying to put it into their food or hide it in a toy, you know, which they can or may not take. But I'm not a vet. Doctor Katie can talk in regards to when things are being induced by the gut. And I, I think that's the great thing of having Katie here because I'm not a vet. I'm just a custodian of Tabati. So I'm not here to give people, you know, advice as a vet because I've just been brought up on this. I've had the privilege of had this in my life from a baby.

10:59 So my grandmother, when I used to get headaches, she'd go into our plantation, she'd get another plant, but essentially she'd mix it with coconut oil and then we call it for four. So she massages it for falls into my head. And then I never had any more migraines ever again. So we've always used traditional medicine. I've been brought up on traditional medicine. That's why I'm so passionate about telling this story because, you know, we treat one drop at a time, but we educate one conversation at a time. I do want to hear your experience with this, Katie, but before we do and you. So when Sean, when we talked before booking this podcast, you were telling me a story about how this has been something you have used in humans forever. And you were telling me about somebody who was using it and they called you in a panic because of their horse and they used it on their horse.

11:47 And this is how it kind of you're like, oh, we need a headline. So when? When we first started Tavati six years ago, so the 1st of October 2019, we created Tavati, you know, a commercial business that was going to sell a product into the human space to assist humans with recovering from bone and soft tissue injuries. And, and, and sports people because my background's professional soccer and so I understood when playing what it meant to recover. But the products that I used back in the day were to the detriment of my career because it was a Band-Aid that enabled me to get back onto the field, but it essentially cut my career down. So I know the risk that people take and sports people take.

12:29 So being able to have a product that I work directly with Doctor Matheson with ASADA, which is an anti doping body, Water World Anti Doping Association, to show athletes they could use this product from an acute phase for safely. Because if they got tested, they didn't have to worry. But they could also use this product while they were playing to assist in prevention, which was a game changer because there's not a lot of products which treat systemically enabling repair while playing. So I said I had this athlete had a horse, had spent a crap load of money on it and said it broken down and it said it smashed a hawk. And I'm like, fuck, what's a hawk? You know, I have no idea. And so I was like, quickly Googling Hawk and I'm like, he goes, it's broken.

13:12 I'm like, OK, he goes, can I use my Tavaati on the horse? And I'm like, man, in my culture, there's no such thing as a product for an animal or a product for a human. Our elders go into the plantation, get the product that fixes the issue, puts it into the bowl of coconut oil and applies it topically. So anyway, he rings me 2-3 months later and says, hey, man, my horse healed. I'm like, yeah. And he goes, but it's unbelievable that the vet can't see where the fractures were. And I'm like, yeah. And he goes, but the vet said he's never seen that before. And I'm like, no shit, you know, So apologies for swearing, but it's just I'm telling the honest truth. And so we essentially work through the equine space. We fell into the equine space and and competitive dog space because vets had never seen this thing before. And the problem was the trainers were calling me directly and I'm like explaining what Tavaati is and how it does. And I said, we really want to use the product Tavaati. We know, we know it's grown in Tahiti and we want this. And I'm like, well, I wish I was in Tahiti, but it's called Tavaati and it's grown in the Cook Islands. So then my phone was ringing 24/7. And then we fell into the animal space and I tried to reach out to vets here in Australia and New Zealand and they basically told me to piss off.

14:27 And then three months later, they'd bring me back because all the horses that they said would never be able to get back into work on, all the rest of it returned. They couldn't see where the fractures were. They couldn't see where the tendon tears were. They couldn't see any of the injuries that were present before. They apologized for telling me to piss off. And they said, how do we come on board? And I'm like, man, you're great. The funniest story was a vet called Warwick Vale here in Australia. He was the president of the Ava and I'm like aviation Association, What the hell is that? I never worked with vets before and I've only ever worked with humans. Turns out he was the president of the Australian Veterinarian Association. Been a vet forever, 4050 years and said I've never seen a product like this before. How do I get involved and help you build your business?

15:09 I said you're in. So we've had some of the best vets on the planet go piss off and then basically ring me back and say I can't believe what I've just seen in my own eyes. And the best thing about working with animals, there's no such thing as placebo. Humans. There's a huge possibility of everything known unto mankind with humans because we're a weird bunch. But with humans, with animals, phenomenal that there's no such thing as placebo. And why we have grown as a business over six years with bugger all promotion. It's been organic, it's been word of mouth. The demand came to move to America because more Americans were wanting the product. They'd heard from someone else, they'd heard from someone else. And Romeo and I made the decision to bring Tavarti in the emerging brand section at Super Zoo Now set Tavarti up as an American LLC business where we now hire Americans. You know, we're two Aussie lads from Australia. My background again being Polynesians, now hiring Americans, now having an American business, you know, supporting locals and, and now bringing on some of the best vets in the world like Katie Kangas. It's phenomenal.

16:14 Thank you. And I have to to say I was chuckling as Sean was saying, Oh, and these vets said piss off because I'm laughing on the inside going. I'm not surprised because they were completely doubting and why wouldn't they that something like this could do what it does? You know, it is like, you know, I've had clients go, Oh my gosh, it's a magical elixir. And I'm like, it is, you know, I mean, it just seems it seems too good to be true for a modern day mind, especially those of us who are, you know, conventionally trained as doctors. We're so used and you know, obviously I'm integrative, but you know, the general consensus is, you know, pharmaceuticals. And then, you know, even the modern day, you know, pet parent who, you know, wouldn't expect that two natural ingredients that are applied topically could truly heal bone and joint tissue.

17:05 It sounds, you know, too good to be true. But as Sean just relayed on what I've seen clinically already, it is true. It's absolutely remarkable. And I'll just, let's also add in that you, the creator, Doctor Graham Matheson, you know who Shawn was talking about, One of the reasons he did his PhD study on discovering what the active ingredient was in this indigenous traditional medicine that they had is because he also grew up in athletics and was a rugby player. And most people know that rugby, as well as soccer has a lot of, you know, and a lot of athletics in general. You get a lot of injuries. And he had multiple injuries and broken legs and stuff like that and healed so well with the traditional medicine from his country that he's like, I've got to study this and, you know, figure out what's happening so that I can help other people.

17:56 And, and then lo and behold, the pathway took it into helping animals. And when I first heard conversations and had conversations with Doctor Matheson, I was floored when he relayed to me that one of the biggest excitements for veterinarians, as Sean said, is when we do an X-ray after an injury to check on the healing. And you literally cannot identify the original site of injury. Like you have a fractured bone. And normally when that bone heals, there's enough misshaping or you know, inflammatory tissue around it and you know bulk of, of new formation and healing around that, that you can see where everything is or it hasn't repaired well or hasn't repaired optimally. And so many times with horses and dogs using this product, the bone healed so well that you literally couldn't identify the initial injury spot.

18:48 And that is beyond remarkable. Like the only thing that is in my head right now is I just, I just want to say like, take that, Rockefeller. But anyway, so how has this changed your practice? You know, it's so fun and it's just still emerging because it's just in the first few months of me recommending this. But I have to tell you, I am so excited not only because it works honestly, but also because I have something else to offer my clients that is easy to use, that is, you know, topical, that is natural. There are so many instances and like I called out, especially with cats where arthritis is so often times under recognized actually, but also under treated and under addressed.

19:37 And there's so few things that are safe for cats, certainly in the pharmaceutical world. And then even in the herbal and natural world, there's a lot of things that are difficult to give them or that they, you know, they won't take or that they don't respond to. And so to have a fresh new product on the scene that is so effective and given in such a different way via the skin has really changed a lot. And so I've been recommending it to add on to even when people have been using lots of things before. Sometimes things work. Sometimes. The pets doing well for a while and then you know, as they age and more arthritic symptoms or other injuries come into play, having something else to add into what you've been doing for a while can really level up. You know, that healing and that progress, but also right out of the gate.

20:27 So it's been fun to offer it to clients that have been using lots of holistic strategies for a long time and people that are just dipping in now. I mean, this is just a perfect product to add in at any time and multi layered is always good. I mean I still like, you know, I have my homeopathic line and I have products that pair really well and are nicely synergistic with the Tabadi product. So we could talk about those if we get to that. And I also like to use herbs. I certainly always talk about nutritional medicine. And so I love the multimodal approach where we're layering in food medicine and herbal medicine, homeopathic medicine, and now this topical coconut oil and hibiscus bark extract. And it just adds such a level of value to the whole integrative space.

21:14 I think a great thing with that, sorry to interrupt, is go ahead. I keep on saying, I try and explain things as simple as possible because pet parents, we've got a family farm and I've got cattle and my cows get Savati, my donkeys get Savati. If my, if I can catch my chickens, they'll get Savati. But the big thing for me is we know as pet parents the amount of products that we buy, right? So when you open that carpet up, and I've said it before and you've got that carpet and it's full of everything, and you think about the investment that you spent just buying those products and what that amounts to, right? Because one thing that I won't shy away from and why I'm always transparent is Tibati isn't cheap, right? So it's $199.

21:57 But The thing is that people need to be mindful of this isn't a product that's coming from China, right? And I'm going to be transparent about that. This is a product that's coming from the Cook Islands that's harvested by hand. Now, hopefully in 12 to 18 months time, we're going to be able to invite all you guys back to the Cook Islands to come with us to see the beautiful country that it is. But we're going to show you guys just how hard it is to harvest because we're doing it all by hand. It's labour, a shit ton of labour that takes to get this product back to the factory to then do the whole process of standardizing it, the investment that's gone into that product. But again, it's expensive because it's the only one of its kind at the moment that's topical. And again, I refer back to when you look at that medicine cupboard that's not just for you, but for your animals, just think about how much money you've spent on every single product in that in that cupboard. And then think about there's a coffee a day. Because if you think about the cost to treat per day for your animal, it's about a coffee and a half a day. So when you're, when you talk about it in a coffee or a beer, whoever drinks or whatever it may be, it really isn't a big an investment when you think about just how much money you've spent to get to us, which is typically out of desperation because you've used everything else.

23:13 Yeah. And the other good, you know, fact to add to that is that it's only every day typically for the first few months in the loading phase and then after that it may be two or three times a week. And actually in pets under 10 lbs and cats, I'm recommending to just start from the gate, start starting out two times a week. So you know, for little pets it's really cost effective because one bag has 30 tubes in it. And if so, if you're using it every day, it's a one month supply for a human or a medium or larger pet, for a small pet, you know, that's going to last for much longer if we're only using that twice a week. And it's quite effective at twice a week in these small pets. So that that really, you know, plays into, so I love to tell people, yes, you know, the cost may be higher than other products, but if it works, which I've seen it work incredible, you know, and we can't ever expect or claim that any products going to work in 100% of pets or, you know, animals and 100% of people. But from what I've seen, this product has such a high success rate in working that I tell people if it works, you know, people would spend that $200 happily if it's going to because there are so many things that don't work. And, you know, people, you know, as we're just talking about spend a lot of money and spin wheels with a lot of things that don't end up with, you know, the highest results. So this really the efficacy and you know, the ease ability of, of using it and applying it and

24:45 the fact that it is topical so you can add it into all these other things that we're doing orally or food medicine and it complements well is such a, you know, a beautiful alignment. Yeah, Well, I think on that note of it complimenting, well, I just celebrated my dog Kim's 12th birthday and we've had a lot of changes this year and there's definitely been a lot of stressors for both of us. And I've started to notice with especially with all of the stress that we've been through this year, it was like all of a sudden she was a puppy. And now it's like, wait, she's aging. And so I just within the past like week and 1/2, I have started adding 2 new things into her regimen and Tavadi is one of them. And I will say that she wants to play a lot more than she has been wanting to play.

25:36 And the other thing that I'm concerned, that I have been concerned with is that I have never had stairs in her entire like the entire time I've had her. And now all of a sudden this year, we have a lot of stairs. And so with her aging, it's just something that I want to be very proactive, just knowing that that's, you know, something that is, isn't easy for, you know, aging dogs to, to, to manage, especially if they've never had them before. It's like, wait, my muscles work that way. But I also think it's very telling, just being like a business minded person. I, you know, had, I haven't worked for anybody. I've had my own business in one way, shape or form for the past 12 plus years.

26:18 So having a very like business mind, I think it is very telling that Doctor Katie, you have your own line of products and yet you are so passionate about this product that you do not own that you are coming to talk about it and sing its praises because other business owners may not do that, right? Like it's just really telling to me that you're like, yeah, I have my own line of products and they're great. But let me tell you about this one. That's like amazing poison. I'm going to jump in here because guys, like I'm a custodian of Tavati and I'm protective over my culture. I will protect it to the NTH degree. So the secret was for Romeo and I was to get to know Katie and Jessica at Super Zoo.

26:59 And I'm telling you, within four days I felt like she was my biggest sister. You know, I felt like we're brother and sister honestly because we don't bring on just any Tom, Dick or Harry, right? And this was the whole thing for us that we will build as a business because we have over six years, but we will build with the right partnerships and we will not let Dick heads come on board because me being head of HR, we have a no Dick head policy. And and that's the whole thing I've sold, I sold my family farm. So my farm that my wife Bianca and I bought, we sold our farm to invest our money into this business because we've had that many people try to invest into our business. It was like, so Romeo and I have invested our money, our family's money into this business to grow it with Cookie because it's part of my duty to my culture, to my people, to my sons, to understand the legacy that we're building for our culture. And Doctor Katie coming on board is a privilege. You know, I wish I could scream a bit now, but it's it's a privilege because I'm screaming inside. Because when you know you.

28:04 Yeah. And I, I saw it right away to the authenticity, you know, and, and the intention behind this company and the efficacy of a product that comes from traditional culture medicine that was studied in the modern scientific context to literally achieve global patents. I mean, this is remarkably unique. And so I'm excited to help its its journey into the pet space and the animal Wellness space. So yeah, I'm, I'm super passionate and so many reasons. And now I just keep accruing more and more reasons as I get more feedback, not only from Jessica and her dog Hamilton, who this is literally changed Hamilton's life, this product, her cavalier spaniel, but now I have multiple patients that are on it and people reporting back to me. Very similar, you know, many comments very similar to what you're seeing Jessica with your doggy and that just more vibrant moving better anything from mobility to energy level, because when you're more mobile, more blood flow, more energy, this really does just sort of catapult into higher vitality and better living.

29:19 What what this plant medicine is doing is it's up regulating the body's ability to repair tissue, notably bone and joint tissue and cartilage and ligaments and things like that. But that can obviously be used after an injury, after an acute thing. But so many times there's chronic issues and chronic issues can be just recurrent from previous injuries that keeps recurring or arthritis. But even arthritis is oftentimes a result or or at least the pain I should say from arthritis can be the result of recurring injuries. So that if you have arthritis, you already have a weakened area that's had an injury before etcetera. It can re injure and there's no little micro cracks in the bone or injuries to that tendon or ligament and then causes more pain and more inflammation.

30:09 And so with this product to body being applied, you know on a regular basis, even at the maintenance of twice a week or so, it's allowing the body, I think Sean said this earlier, it's allowing the body to repair as things are happening so that you don't end up in that advanced state of pain and stiffness and soreness etcetera. So these I mean older pets I say, but you can, I mean this is great for any age, but for older pets especially or pets with injuries, you can really see the difference and typically the difference is seen, starts to be seen. I mean, it will obviously take some time for more full efficacy, but the differences can be seen within five to seven days or so from my clinical experience thus far. Yeah, Well, I want to say that I absolutely can as to what Sean just said, because when we had our Zoom call before this, he was like, I asked around about you because I'm not just coming on any podcast.

31:07 I was like, oh gosh, OK, well I'm glad people had nice things to say about me, but I want to. It's true though, because at the end of the day, got you, you just can spend a lot of time building your own personal brand, right? And, and with them when it comes to personal brand, that's everything and, and my culture to me and my name is everything to me. So we will protect our, our people and you are our people, you know, So again, understanding Katie when we met her, her own doctor, Katie's remedies are a compliment to what we do at Tibati. So how do we partner with people that have complimentary, you know, remedies that can benefit our business? Because Tibati is not everything.

31:48 People will go, oh, Tibati does this and Tibati does that. That's great. But Tibati is not everything because Tibati, it's businesses need value adds because Tibati is not going to come out and then do a Tibati dog wash like all that bullshit we don't do. There's no way. So we will partner with the right businesses, the right to have the right efficacy with the right brands, with the right people to then say, hey, I've tested these people personally because you're not getting past me. And, and if you want to, you can try, but you're not, you know? So again, my passion, I wear my everything on my sleeve and I'm, I'm unemployable, you know, and I, I wear this unapologetically because it's, it's very important to me that our customers, our people, our tribe, when we're sharing our bowl, that they understand that we've tested, we've had the conversations and not all the conversations are going to be pretty at the start, but we're going to do it for the right intentions. Doctor Katie, can you talk about what you saw with Hamilton, specifically what he was going through and how Tabadi? Yeah, Hamilton story is actually really interesting because when you learn about what Tabadi does, you would generally be targeting it for pets or patients. And in my, you know, from my ankle that would either have injuries or lameness or, you know, arthritis, you know, just older aging.

33:11 Hamilton actually has the Chiari malformation. So he has the CM issue that a lot of cavalier spaniels have where the spinal outlet of the CSF is too narrow and so the CSF fluid gets trapped in the cranium and it can be God awful painful. I mean it is this really a difficult syndrome for these dogs to live with lifelong And Jessica has taken Hamilton to numerous specialists and neurology appointments etcetera. He's been on pharmaceuticals in the past. Fortunately, he actually got off his pharmacy. He was on multiple pharmaceuticals. And then when we started working together, we slowly got Hamilton off all his pharmaceuticals and still maintaining a very good and high quality of life on CBD very regularly as well as well as you know other supplements and getting chiropractic and acupuncture regularly, stuff like that. But Despite that, even even though he wasn't in downright pain, she didn't realize until she started to body that he could actually be so much better than he was. Because she did a bunch of research on it and read up on it and found out from, you know, Sean and the team and all the, you know, stuff we've looked into that it is patented for tissue repair, but many humans that have used it very specifically have had the benefit of reduced pain. So and it when she was using it for her foot fracture, her pain subside.

34:34 She was waking up in the middle of the night from throbbing pain of her broken foot. Within three days of applying to body, she was able to sleep through the night. And she's like, holy shit, if this helps my level of pain, what could it do for Hamilton, even though he doesn't have a broken bone or injured tissue that, you know, we're aware of. So she started using it on Hamilton and within a few weeks, I mean, I'm almost going to get emotional for her because this is really because I've known him and now for a long time and I love this little dude. And she, she's like, he would never run at the park. Her other dog, Rusty, now that we healed his IMPA, you know, he runs and plays at the park. And Hamilton would just saunter around and sniff and not engage.

35:15 He is now playing, He's rolling. She goes. I didn't realize I haven't seen him roll around in grass in years or ever. And so and he's happier. He's just like more social in the house. Her mom came to visit this last week and her mom's like, this dog is laying on my lap more in one day. And then he's laid on my lap in seven years of me visiting. Like he's just, he feels better. And it's just such a lovely thing to see. And it's not something that I would have predicted would come out of Tavani. And so it's just cool that as we use it more and more, the demonstration that we can see how this can apply in so many different facets is nothing short of really exciting.

35:57 Yeah. Well, and a lot of the things you're talking about feel like typically going into, you know, conventional veterinarian's office, one of the things that may be prescribed is some sort of and said and or steroid. And we know how detrimental those can be to the liver. And I'm imagining because this is an all natural 2 ingredient product that it is actually really gentle on the. Absolutely. And there's in all the studies that were done, there was no negative effects seen at all to organ systems or to health in anything they were able to document. And you know, is certainly obviously it's been used on, you know, humans and dogs and horses, you know, for quite some time.

36:37 But in the studies on, you know, rabbits and other animals too, nothing has ever been seen that's negative. That's amazing. And I'm also, the other thing I'm thinking is about all these animals that are being prescribed Librella and silencia and we're seeing like really, really horrible side effects and, you know, decreased lifespans and all the all the horrible things. And I'm just imagining that that this as a layered approach like like you were talking about, could be so much more beneficial to these animals. Absolutely. And even a lot of, you know, integrative minded pet parents, multimodal, I mean you use as many natural products as that makes sense, you know, for that pet that work in a complementary alignment together. But sometimes pet parents still have to turn to pharmaceuticals to keep their dogs comfortable and have a quality of life. And we were talking about the cost. I mean, these pharmaceuticals like, you know, the end stage, whether it's, you know, Carprofen or Galaprint or you know, these new thing not, you know, not to mention, I mean, we don't want at all the Labrela and Silencia type stuff. But these other end stage talk about liver impact of these pharmaceuticals going on a daily basis for chronic use, sometimes permanent use and not to mention even just the biochemical negative buildup that that can cause 'cause. But the cost too, I mean, we were talking about the cost of Tavati big dogs on NSAID's every day. That's 2 bucks a day.

38:03 I mean that's, you know, at least maybe $4.00 a day depending on their size. So that adds up a lot and that is contributing to, you know, obviously concern for the liver and many other things that. But what about the cost of trying to to to help those dogs post? What about that? You know what I mean? So they use these other products. Then what does it mean about the cost and the vet visit and potentially not seeing your dog because it's constantly in the vet hospital, whatever it may be? What about the emotional factor cost to this as a pet parent? Because I know my I've got three sons, we don't give our kids any pharmaceutical products. And that says, so I'm not giving my pet a pharmaceutical product. Even if the vet or doctor prescribes it, I still don't give it to them.

38:46 Then that's just us to be totally honest, you know, so I'm not giving my kids something that I wouldn't take and I don't expect my animals to take something I wouldn't take. And that's the benefit of Tivati because it's not a product just for animals. This is a product that's for humans and animals. And we become your well-being partner because when you're applying Tivati to the animal, it's absorbing in through your hand because your skin is the biggest organ there is on your body. So essentially which also treating the pet parent at the same time unknowingly. So when they ring us back. So when we worked in the, in the equine market, or we're sorry, we do work in those markets, the trainers used to ring me and go, man, I know you told me there's only two ingredients in this product, but what the fuck's really in it?

39:28 Because I've got the worst pain. I haven't been able to, to my pain in my hand, in my back, but I'm in zero pain. And I'm like, is that a good thing or a bad things? I know it's fantastic. I will keep on using the product, you know, and and so it's I get so passionate about this, but again, you've got to think about the knock on effects of doing your research, you know, and, and understanding exactly what it is just because someone says, use this, do your research, understand what it is, what's the ingredients, check the ingredients on the product and say, well, this thing that's got a list from A-Z Google, you know, there's so many things at at our fingertips as as pet parents that we can find out the information or just ask a professional like doctor Katie Kangas. I feel like plant medicine is really having like a resurgence right now and I'm loving it so much because as, as you said at the beginning, like, shouldn't this be simple? Shouldn't the, shouldn't, you know, the earth provide everything we need?

40:27 And I feel like that's kind of like an oversimplified statement because we've done so much damage to, you know, depleting our soils and all of the things, which is why it's so important. I think that these product that the hibiscus bark is coming out of the Cook Islands because you're probably have much healthier soil there. We're not allowed to end the solids and we're not allowed to call it organic. Like that's the weirdest thing for us. We source our our coconut oil, but we have a piece of paper that says it's organic. But in the Cook Islands, it grows wildly. It grows naturally and there's no pesticides, but we can't call it organic. So we'll just call it natural. Yeah. You know what, I'd love to tag on to what you said, Jessica, about how it's so great that plant medicine is making a resurgence. And it is, I mean, the wave of the future, it's funny to call it the future.

41:14 I mean, well, it is integrative, you know, and it's back in so many traditional routes. And one of the things that I heard Doctor Graham Matheson say in the podcast with Clayton mean on the, the on pet business disruptors podcast, I would include, I would encourage all of your listeners and audience to listen to that podcast. It's amazing. But one of the things that Doctor Matheson said in that podcast, which I really enjoyed hearing is he said, you know, it's only been the last 50 or 60 years that we've, that medicine has revolved around designer medicine. He goes, it used to be discovery medicine. It was, it was cultures discovering what worked, what worked from the earth, the planet, these plants, and then creating protocols around what worked.

41:59 Now it's designer medicine in creating something that works rather than discovering what works. And in creation, it's obviously synthetic and it's out of balance and it's sometimes taking the medicinal agent out of a plan and isolating and that in creating it since synthetically. And sometimes it's just creating it synthetically from the get go. But again, like a designer approach rather than a discovery approach of let's use what works. So that was provided to us, you know, through the earth. So that's such a beautiful thing to get back to. It really is. And I think it, as we've already, already mentioned, does complement your line of products at Doctor Katie's Remedies. So how do you combine to body with some of the products you have?

42:43 You have a lot of homeopathy. And my homeopathics and I was smiling as Sean was talking because he said the words share your bowl. It's like yeah, because one of the reasons why we bonded so quickly on so many levels, you know intention and the you know the authenticity of of where they are in their mission and spiritual actuality behind all of this was so beautiful. But the fact that their product fits my passion of providing things and supporting people with education and resources and choices that affect both their pets and themselves. So our company, you know, tagline share your bowl is all because of Doctor Katie's remedies. Everything I've created is suitable for humans and very effective for humans as well as pets. And the reason that that tagline came about, share your bowl is Jessica suggested that as my practice manager, she'd been hearing me for years talk to my clients in the exam room with their pets, saying, you know, this product is made for pets, but it's really good for humans.

43:48 So feel free to take some yourself and share the bottle with your pet. Or the flip side, I'd say, you know, this product is made for humans, but I'm going to send it home for your pet. Just so you know, it's a human label because it's made for humans. So share the bottle with your pet. This is really great. You know, they start asking, asking me, oh, you're recommending bone broth for my pet. I should be drinking that for myself, shouldn't I? And I said, yes, you should. And you're eating all your fermented foods and all these things. So it was share your bowl. It was, hey, these are things that across species, I love how Sean said, you know, we don't have products that are for pets or for people. We just have these natural ingredients that work to heal the body, whether you're an animal body or a human. I mean, we all are animals.

44:30 So just so well aligned with my passion of where I'm going with my product line and really with my education. I've amassed such an amount of training and education in functional medicine. And so much of what I learned or my training in functional medicine was literally on the human side. And then I apply it to pets and some of it was straight veterinary, but a lot of it was human application of functional medicine and then integrating that into a veterinary approach. And so this product, my line, you know, to the Tabati product and the Doctor Katie's line mesh right in there with that functional support for humans and animals. And mine are homeopathic so far.

45:13 I'll probably expand from there. But my products are homeopathy. And as just to explain that briefly, it's homeopathic remedies, of course, are have also been used for centuries and they are all natural ingredients and homeopathic remedies. You can do a single remedy or blended remedies. Mine are all blended, you know, remedies that I've custom, you know, blended for, you know, each of the approaches that the formulas are are targeted for. But a homeo adeopathic ingredient is always exceedingly diluted and that's what lends to the great safety margin. And one of the best things about homeopathy is it's so gentle, unsafe, and it can be used in all species. You know, Shawn was bringing up chickens and, you know, I mean, you can use homeopathy in anything and it's, you know, in its natural.

45:56 So homeopathy is like heels, like is, is, you know, where the language actually, you know, comes from is like heels like or like treats like and in nature, an ingredient that we would be, you know, using in a homeopathic formula at full strength, it could be toxic. But when you are diluting it down to an extreme dilution, it's just enough for the body to energetically recognize, to nudge or shift the body, help shift the body into healing itself and to using in its innate mechanisms to correct that imbalance and get back into homeostasis. So it's so beautiful. It's this tiny little amount. And even like conventional medicine, Western medicine, people look at homeopathic remedies and they're like, shit that's so dilute.

46:41 There's no way that could be doing anything. There's nothing in there. And you know, we holistic people, anyone who's used homeopathy and sees it work, we know that that tiny amount, this is on a very energetic like quantum, you know, Physiology aspect of this working in the body is it's just creating that little shift of the body healing itself or correcting the imbalance or correcting the condition. And so that's what my formulas are after. And then I guess I could mention that I don't know if my camera maybe not, but that's mobility and that is nerve. So these are two of my formulas that pair very well with the, you know, Tavadi product that could be used in a little trio set.

47:22 The mobility has ingredients in it for, you know, inflammation and pain, but also things that are targeted for bone healing like Cymfitum, things that are targeted for cartilage healing and resilience like the Cartilago. There's also, you know, arnica and you know, other things for inflammation and and etcetera. So that pairs very nicely. And then the nerve formula is targeted more for nerve pain, which we would definitely think of with neck or back problems. But a lot of times with other injuries, nerves are either being no pinched scar tissue, inflammation, adhesions in the tissue, you know, you know, from post injury and all kinds of things, even post surgery can trap nerves in there.

48:03 And so a lot of times that's inter, you know, is, is in the play of how that is manifesting into symptoms. And I've seen some incredible results with both of these formulas. But I released the nerve formula more recently and now I've got a lot of feedback coming in on how well this is working. Even pets that have like muscle tremors and leg twitches and things like that, they've gotten a lot more steady or even tremors resolving on the nerve formula. So that's got a lot of application. Mobility is just kind of the nice go to across the board for anything with lameness being arthritis. And then if it seems applicable, adding the nerve in is a is a great addition. And the nice thing about homeopathy, just to state this to you, is that it doesn't counteract or contradict anything else. And that's a beauty of homeopathy too, is that it can be used right alongside, of course, pharmaceuticals, but it can be used alongside multiple herbals, you know, and so many other natural tools too.

49:01 And we do know that with herbal medicine, it being so much safer in general than pharmaceuticals, of course. But when you're starting to use multiple herbs and Chinese herbal formulas often have 12 to 15 herbs and 1 formula, when you're really racking up the herbs and layering on things, sometimes things can start to have maybe some counter action there where you want to be knowledgeable or plug into an practitioner that can really help people decipher what a good regimen is when you're combining herbs. But the beauty of homeopathy is if the pets already on some herbals things, on some maybe prescription things, adding in the homeopathy, you never have to worry that that is going to cause any negative influence or impact.

49:46 It's amazing. So do I remember correctly that there was some issues with the FDA that you couldn't put a lot of things on the website, Sean, is that I don't know if I'm remembering that right? So essentially we kind to be a massage or that works around joint and mobility with dogs, horses, etcetera. When you're trying to register anything in any market, there's a lot of things that can come up. Now our patents are registered globally in every single major market globally obviously to rejuvenate bones of tissue in cartilage. But if you're going to go out and try register a product in any market, they want XYZ and millions and millions and millions of dollars. So we chose down to go down the least resistance path and we got it over the line with the FDA in regards to joint mobility and joint issues etcetera.

50:41 And and that's what we're really happy with because whatever else our customers see the product work for, it's a bonus for them. Yeah, I just, I wanted to bring that up in case somebody listens or hears something from someone about it and they go to the website and they're like, wait, is this the same product? Yeah. And it's great that you asked that because So what we've done now the Tivari Traditional is our human product, Tivari Pet and Tivari Equine would basically put everything under one website because we had so many customers go, oh, why we're going to a different website while we're doing this. And we're like, you know what, go to one place because so we're seeing our customers not only buying the Tivari Pet product for their animals, but now buying Tivari Traditional for themselves. So again coming back to the holistic view of being the family's well-being partner. I love it.

51:25 So we're all I I'm sure there are multiple places that people can get to body. I don't. Do you have it on your website too, Doctor Katie? Yes, we have links to that on our website and direct people to thetavadi.com website all the time now as well. Perfect. Correct. Well, I, I just am so grateful for both of you and to have learned about this product. I am just a lifelong student, so I love just learning any and everything new that comes along, especially if it is natural and actually works, which is amazing. So I just want to say thank you both for being here, for taking your time to come on and talk to all of us about this product and what you're seeing from it.

52:07 And obviously, Sean, you have your whole life, you've been around it. So you're like, yeah, duh, this is what it is. But for other people like me, we're like, Oh my gosh, this is amazing. Amazing. Where did this come from? Yeah. And look, it's it's a privilege. It really is, Jessica, because like, you reached out post Super Zoo, we didn't get to meet there, but hey, we're here now. You're using it on your own pet. You're seeing it for yourself. And as I said, the best thing with animals is that there's no such thing as placebo and your eyes don't lie. And that's the most beautiful thing about what we're doing. It's the most beautiful thing that we're doing with Doctor Katie Kangas. You know, she's now the official, you know, Tavaati well-being veterinarian officer for us, which is even bigger privilege for us.

52:48 So for us to be able to share our story on the pet parenting reset with you have Katie on here. And just as I said, we treat one drop at a time. We educate one conversation at a time. So thank you so much. And if you're like on the fence and you're like, I have no idea if this would help my pet or not, you probably have pretty a pretty long wait list. But I know Doctor Katie, you do a telehealth as well, if people. Yes, thank you, Jessica for mentioning that. I do. And we're still seeing new patients and there might be a month or so wait time, but not too bad. And I'm so happy to do that Ioffer telehealth so I'm able to work with pets across the globe, which is really, really fantastic. And the telemedicine is really so, you know, so successful in the integrative space. So I, I really like working with people that way and supporting them with providing a, a customized Wellness plan to, you know, support their pets to healthier well-being from anything chronic or even just preventative and stay healthy. That's awesome.

53:50 Well, I appreciate both of you, Sean and Doctor Katie. And guys, if you have any other questions about the body, feel free to reach out. And you can just check the show notes for the link to anything we talked about today. So you can just click and go there. And with that, I want to say again, thank you guys for being here. Give your pets some extra love from me, from Sean and from Doctor Katie this week and I will talk to you next week. Thank you. Thank you.