231. Are Pet Supplements Safe? How to Vet Brands Like a Pro

1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,040
It's time to rethink how we
raise our pets.

2
00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,840
A reset to naturally healthy
dogs and cats.

3
00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,520
My name is Jessica.
I'm a certified professional

4
00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,160
canine nutritionist, raw
nutrition certified for dogs and

5
00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,440
cats, a holistic pet health
coach, the founder of Wild

6
00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,200
Wellness Pet, and the host of
the Pet Parenting Reset podcast,

7
00:00:20,240 --> 00:00:24,320
where every pet deserves the
absolute best and every pet

8
00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,680
parent is welcome.
Learn from the best holistic and

9
00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:30,880
integrative experts in
veterinary medicine and

10
00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:36,520
nutrition every Tuesday right
here on this podcast or get

11
00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,720
individualized help with your
pet through one-on-one

12
00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,360
consultations and take a deep
dive into the root cause with

13
00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,480
the Wild Wellness Bioenergetics
at Home test kit.

14
00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,480
If you've been feeling like
there has to be something more,

15
00:00:50,480 --> 00:00:54,680
something better, a better way
to raise healthier pets, welcome

16
00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,640
to the pet parenting reset.
Welcome back pet parent.

17
00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,880
Today's guest is so interesting
to me.

18
00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,640
I was actually introduced to her
through our good friend Lauren

19
00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,560
Beck's from Girls Gone Raw.
And you guys love when Lauren

20
00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,480
comes on the podcast.
So anytime she has a

21
00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,760
recommendation for me, I jump on
it.

22
00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,880
And I was like, Oh my gosh, once
I talked to her.

23
00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:23,720
So Rebecca Rose is the founder
of In Clover, and they are doing

24
00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,760
pet supplements.
But there's a whole history that

25
00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,280
we need to talk about.
So welcome to the podcast.

26
00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:31,800
Rebecca, how are you doing
today?

27
00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,360
I'm doing great.
Thank you so much for having me

28
00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,600
on the podcast.
Of course.

29
00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:42,440
So the first thing I would let,
so there's a whole history that

30
00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,880
you have in the space and before
the space that I would just love

31
00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,480
for people to get an
understanding of how you got to

32
00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,000
where you are now.
Because I think that is actually

33
00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:57,160
one of the most important parts
because supplements are

34
00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:01,640
everywhere and it's really hard
for most pet parents to be

35
00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,200
discerning.
And so your history is what

36
00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:12,080
helps us understand why, why we
can trust more in in in Clover.

37
00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,560
It is confusing and, and even
for me, I do this every day all

38
00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:20,360
the time.
And when I go into a store and I

39
00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,000
look at the supplement shelf,
it's overwhelming.

40
00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:28,160
And so backing up just a little
bit to how I came into this

41
00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:33,440
space, it was pure serendipity.
So I was working in

42
00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:39,520
biotechnology.
I am a biochemist and I had been

43
00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,120
working on some projects that
were funded by the National

44
00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,480
Institutes of Health and the
Center for Disease Control to

45
00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:52,200
really look at how can we bring
Wellness to the ultimate level.

46
00:02:52,920 --> 00:02:59,680
So find out what is it inside
the body that allows us to be at

47
00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,520
our best.
And that to me is fascinating

48
00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,960
because I think we all have
potential within ourselves.

49
00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,720
We're all very different.
And so looking at that from a

50
00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:15,520
scientific standpoint, what we
discovered was that there are

51
00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,680
things that we can do from the
inside out to make for

52
00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:25,800
healthier, happier, just overall
more Wellness within a person.

53
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:30,560
After doing that research, I
decided I really didn't want to

54
00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,640
be inhuman the human side of
things anymore.

55
00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,000
And a lot of it was that working
with those big government

56
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:43,160
entities, there were questions
that were so how many ballerinas

57
00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,520
dancing on the head of a pin
sort of thing, things that were

58
00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:48,280
just almost impossible to
answer.

59
00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:54,800
And so I went into animal
Wellness seeing that nobody was

60
00:03:54,800 --> 00:04:00,160
looking at really high quality
ethical scientific research on

61
00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,880
the on the our pet Wellness side
of things.

62
00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:07,160
And I could take what we had
learned on the human side and

63
00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:12,960
really work to get a more
healthy overall healthy animal.

64
00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,240
So we focused our research at In
Clover on how can we make a

65
00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:22,480
healthier dog or cat.
And interestingly enough, we

66
00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:27,320
have moved from how to make a
healthier dog or cat to now our

67
00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,760
products are sought out by a
zoo, veterinarians, rescue

68
00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:36,400
groups that to to work with
animals all the way from dogs

69
00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,440
and cats to lemurs and elephants
and giraffes and sloths.

70
00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,280
We have a lot of sloths in
Costa, in Costa Rica that take

71
00:04:43,280 --> 00:04:47,920
our product.
So if you work on really basic,

72
00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:52,360
how to make an animal healthier
from the inside out, that's the

73
00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:58,200
foundation that we started with
when I founded in Clover about

74
00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:04,640
20 / 25 years ago.
We started with that foundation

75
00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:09,200
and we started doing clinical
studies and what we discovered

76
00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:13,520
was that nobody had ever done a
clinical study on

77
00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:19,480
supplementation using pets.
So just taking people's pets and

78
00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:24,680
inviting them to participate in
using our supplements and doing

79
00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:29,120
it in a university setting where
we were measuring how much in

80
00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,440
this particular research we were
doing hip and joint health.

81
00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:38,560
And so we were looking at
animals from age 6 months to 19

82
00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:44,680
years, so all life stages and
looking at very quantifiably how

83
00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:49,720
much weight could they put on
each particular joint.

84
00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,320
So we didn't exclude any
animals.

85
00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:56,720
We included all of them.
We tested them using X-rays to

86
00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,440
find out if they had indeed had
joint problems.

87
00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:05,920
And then we moved from there to
look at can we improve on that

88
00:06:06,280 --> 00:06:10,920
using the same process that I
had used in this very large

89
00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:15,120
research project.
And what we learned was that in

90
00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:20,480
over 9 out of 10 animals we
could see who were diagnosed

91
00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:24,200
with severe joint problems, we
could see significant

92
00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:29,880
improvement through a natural
safe supplement in on average 15

93
00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:31,680
days.
And that was wearing.

94
00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:36,840
Clover was born.
You know, the studies are so

95
00:06:36,840 --> 00:06:39,920
important.
And I mean, truthfully, like to

96
00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:44,800
me, being in a more holistic
space, anecdotal evidence is

97
00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,280
important to that's where
science starts, right?

98
00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:51,960
We have to see like this is
happening and it's happening

99
00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,960
over and over again and multiple
people are saying that this is

100
00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,040
happening.
Maybe we should look into this

101
00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,320
and like actually do a study on
it, right?

102
00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,640
But I know in talking to you
previously, one of the things

103
00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:08,520
that you talked about was also
being part of founding NASC,

104
00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,360
which I have heard competing
views on.

105
00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:19,360
So I'm curious, like I feel like
we need something, right?

106
00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,040
And it's what we've got.
We need something even if it's

107
00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:27,800
not perfect.
But of course, I'd like to hear

108
00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,720
your story about that as well
because I'm sure that's probably

109
00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,800
why you're like, we have
nothing.

110
00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:37,160
Let me create something right?
It was really interesting the

111
00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,640
way.
So for folks who don't know,

112
00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:44,080
NASC is National Animal
Supplement Council and NASC is a

113
00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:49,520
nonprofit organization that
works with brands, supplement

114
00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,880
brands and regulators.
And the regulators that they

115
00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:58,000
work with are the USDA, so that
the Department of Agriculture

116
00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:03,200
and the Food and Drug
Administration and they have

117
00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:08,360
NASC has created this
collaboration between the brands

118
00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:13,520
and the regulators to set
standards, quality standards of

119
00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:19,560
supplementation for animals.
And in the early 2000s, we were,

120
00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,440
we had already done our clinical
studies at in Clover and we were

121
00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,280
deciding to bring our product to
market.

122
00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,360
I was invited to go to Tufts
Veterinary school to give a talk

123
00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,960
to veterinarians about the work
that we had done in

124
00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,080
supplementation in the clinical
studies.

125
00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,640
And they were going to offer
continuing education credits,

126
00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:43,600
which is something that
veterinarians are required to

127
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,520
get.
I flew to Boston.

128
00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:54,000
I'm, I'm in Colorado, so I flew
to Boston and big, big lecture

129
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,120
hall was set up.
I was ready to give my talk.

130
00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,720
I was very excited to share the
research that we had done and

131
00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:05,920
how this will allow us to get
better results with animals than

132
00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,200
what we have currently.
Not one veterinarian came to my

133
00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,480
talk.
Crickets.

134
00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,400
Nobody came.
They just weren't ready, right?

135
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:20,640
They weren't ready for that kind
of very different approach to

136
00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,760
what they were used to.
I went back home with my tail

137
00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,920
between my legs and started
thinking about how we could get

138
00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,280
these products out to the
marketplace.

139
00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:35,080
So as we started to look at, and
this is where we are today, 20

140
00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,960
some years later, we looked at
the independent pet stores.

141
00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:43,640
These are pet stores that are in
neighborhoods who are so well

142
00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,800
educated.
They have relationships with

143
00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:50,320
customers and I thought this is
great because they understand

144
00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,480
what the consumer is asking for.
They know what the pet parent

145
00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,880
needs.
I started talking to them,

146
00:09:56,560 --> 00:10:00,080
started getting some product
into the marketplace and we were

147
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,760
contacted by the state of Texas
with a stop sale saying that we

148
00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,280
could not sell our products into
the state.

149
00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,560
Then all of a sudden more more
states contacted us and said you

150
00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:13,000
have to pull your products off
the shelf, you can't sell them

151
00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:19,040
anymore, they're unapproved.
And that was what really sparked

152
00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,840
the brands that companies to
come together and say we need

153
00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:27,760
something to help talk to these
regulators, educate them about

154
00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:32,640
what we are doing so that they
are not just taking the hammer

155
00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,480
out and stopping consumers from
having access to these products.

156
00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:42,360
So we met as a Group, A group of
brands met at a tratro in

157
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:47,880
Florida and we talked about what
are we going to do and decided

158
00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,400
that we needed to start an
organization from that.

159
00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,560
National Animal Supplement
Council was formed and it really

160
00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:58,640
was a crawl, walk, run process
where we started with the

161
00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:03,120
regulator said we're going to
now stop specifically any

162
00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,360
products that have glucosamine
in them will stop them from

163
00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,080
being available on the
marketplace.

164
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,920
And in the meantime, I'm going
to each of these States and I'm

165
00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,640
sharing our double-blind
placebo-controlled clinical

166
00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,600
studies that were done at Massey
University in New Zealand, which

167
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:24,480
is still the global leader in
research for any kind of pet

168
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,320
products.
I'm showing them all of the

169
00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:31,240
studies and they're asking me
things like was it done at Texas

170
00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,400
A&M?
Clearly there was a disconnect

171
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:40,440
there and what NASC did when the
regulators decided they wouldn't

172
00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:44,880
allow glucosamine in the
products, NASC said we're going

173
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,240
to push back because we know
that companies have done

174
00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,760
clinical work.
We shared all of our clinical

175
00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,920
data.
The folks that make Glucosamine

176
00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,840
shared some of their data
because our data was the one

177
00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:04,120
that was in, it's in actually in
pets and in nobody had done this

178
00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,120
before.
It held a lot of weight.

179
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,200
And ultimately the regulator
said, OK, we'll allow

180
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:15,280
glucosamine in products and we
will really look at what you're

181
00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,920
doing because what you presented
us makes sense.

182
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:25,040
NASC then formed as a nonprofit
entity and in Clover is a member

183
00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,920
of that entity.
They do three things that I

184
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,920
think are really important and
the first is that they have a

185
00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,920
secret shopper program and the
secret shopper program goes out

186
00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,680
by supplement products at the
shelf and then test them to make

187
00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:44,160
sure that what it says on the
label is in the product.

188
00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:49,360
The second thing is that there
is a national Adverse Event

189
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:55,160
reporting system, NARES that
Nair system is accessible to the

190
00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,760
regulators, to the Food and Drug
Administration, to the USDA.

191
00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:05,000
We are required to enter all of
our ingredients into that Nair

192
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,840
system.
And so if there is ever a

193
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:13,680
problem with any ingredient,
then NASC has this database.

194
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:21,200
Additionally, we are required if
we get any adverse event for any

195
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,640
of our products, we're required
to enter that into the database

196
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,160
and that is stays in the
database forever and the

197
00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,160
regulators have access to that.
And I'll give you an example

198
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:38,200
with our hip and joint product,
we enter for this database, we

199
00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,680
enter everything, anything that
happens that a customer says,

200
00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,240
I'm not sure my, you know,
something has happened and it

201
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,640
looks a little different, may or
may not be because of the

202
00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,880
product, but we entered in
because we believe that data are

203
00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,640
power and we want more
information.

204
00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,800
And, and the most common adverse
event that we have in our

205
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,320
database is that a dog, usually
it's a Labrador retriever, has

206
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,600
taken our product off the shelf,
has opened the lid because

207
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,720
Labrador retrievers do that and
dumped it out and eaten the

208
00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:12,040
entire container.
And what we can tell them is

209
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:17,760
there's no problem that this is
safe ingredients and taking too

210
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,800
much of it may cause a little
bit of transitory diarrhea

211
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,600
depending on the system and the
size of the animal, but it's not

212
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:29,120
going to hurt the animal.
And we have over 20 years of

213
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,640
data to show that.
And to your point with anecdotal

214
00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,320
data, we also have hundreds of
thousands of dogs and cats and

215
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,680
other animals have been on our
product over the past two

216
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,960
decades to show that they are
safe.

217
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:47,440
And I think it's important not
only to have that field data and

218
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,240
to have the adverse event
database.

219
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,960
So that's the second thing that
that NASC does.

220
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:59,160
The last thing that they do is
that they have a third party

221
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,240
audit program.
So we have auditors come into

222
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:07,360
our facility and in our case,
they spend 8 hours, there are

223
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,960
491 questions.
We're just audited.

224
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,120
They ask 491 questions and they
go through all of our standard

225
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:18,560
operating procedures, all of our
records to ensure that what we

226
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,600
say we're doing, we're actually
doing.

227
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:28,040
When you pass as a company that
really rigorous audit, you earn

228
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:33,080
the right to have the NASC
benchmark of quality seal on

229
00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,200
your label.
So that's a yellow seal with the

230
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:40,120
NASC letters on it.
So just know that that's, that's

231
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:44,800
sort of for my opinion, that
would be like a barrier of, of,

232
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,920
of safety to look at in quality
for consumers.

233
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,480
So when you're looking to buy
supplements, spin the bottle

234
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,560
around and make sure it has that
yellow seal on it, because then

235
00:15:55,560 --> 00:16:01,080
you know that that company
adheres to national adverse

236
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:06,040
event reporting, to secret
shopper access, and to a third

237
00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,240
party audit.
Interesting.

238
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:16,920
So I'm learning a lot from my
perspective as just where I sit

239
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,680
because I don't do what you do.
I haven't had, you know, all the

240
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:25,120
experience that you have had.
I look at and I see, OK, and

241
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,400
this is a lot of my audience to
This is why I'm bringing this

242
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:31,320
up.
I look at say, and this is, you

243
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:35,640
know, looking at the human
industry versus the pet

244
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:39,720
industry, like where medicine
and supplements and like

245
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,800
pharmaceuticals and supplements
and all of that is concerned.

246
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:46,920
For a long time there was a huge
delay between what was happening

247
00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:51,200
in the human world and then how
long it would take to get to the

248
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,800
animal world.
And I think that gap is closing

249
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:58,080
pretty rapidly, especially with
social media in the past decade

250
00:16:58,080 --> 00:16:59,920
or so.
It's like it's really closing

251
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:04,839
that gap.
So if we go to, I don't know,

252
00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:08,599
say a Target or a Walmart and we
look at the supplement aisle for

253
00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:13,079
humans that they have or even
pets, but specifically humans.

254
00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:16,359
Because when you talk about the
FDA and the USDA, like that's

255
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:21,400
their primary, well, the FDA,
their primary concern is, you

256
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,560
know, human medicine and
supplements and what they want

257
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,960
to call food.
But if we look at a supplement

258
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:33,120
aisle and we actually break it
down and we go through and see

259
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:35,880
who owns all of these
supplements, who actually owns

260
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:40,560
all of these companies, it all
typically, for the most part,

261
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,880
the majority of these aisles are
going to boil down to these like

262
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:49,200
huge investment companies that
somehow or another wind up with

263
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,040
like State Street, Vanguard,
BlackRock.

264
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,440
That's who actually owns
everything.

265
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,000
They also own the pharmaceutical
companies and supplements are a

266
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:04,080
huge, they take away at least
pharmaceutical companies see

267
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,640
them as taking away profit.
So it's like, well, if they can

268
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:12,280
at least own these supplement
companies, then they're then

269
00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:16,440
somehow some way, shape or form
Black Street, Vanguard or

270
00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:20,600
whatever they are, BlackRock,
Vanguard, State Street, they're

271
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,800
still recouping their money in
some way, shape or form.

272
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:27,880
So for a small company that
isn't owned by these huge

273
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:32,040
conglomerates, these like
investment companies, then

274
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,240
that's really where they're
from.

275
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,960
What kind of what I heard from
you too, that's where they're

276
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:41,960
like, oh, no, you can't do this.
And so in ASC, as far as what I

277
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:47,720
just learned in ASC forming,
that was the pushback to say no,

278
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:56,040
this has a place.
Yeah, Yeah, it and it's, and

279
00:18:56,040 --> 00:19:00,400
what you say is so interesting
because the pushback that we've

280
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,920
gotten is that and the reason
that we were pushed back is

281
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:09,160
because there are large
companies like Purina who have

282
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:13,120
done some testing on.
I'll give you an example.

283
00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:17,080
We have a product that is a
supplement product and it works

284
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:22,440
on hairballs and cats.
It did not occur to me that we

285
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,560
could not put hairball on our
label and we're a small

286
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,560
privately held company.
So I'm the owner of in Clover

287
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,120
did not occur to me.
We put hairball on the label and

288
00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:34,480
we got stop sale all over the
country.

289
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,920
I talked to the regulators and
they said hairball is a drug

290
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,480
claim and I said this is a hill
I'm going to die on because

291
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:48,000
hairball is not a drug claim.
And so I, I, I pulled scientific

292
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,400
data, I showed how, what the
mechanism, the physiological

293
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,040
mechanism of hair balls are.
It's a natural process as cats

294
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:59,400
clean themselves and, and
presented all of that

295
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,360
information.
And I learned that Purina had

296
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:09,400
done a study which the
regulators accepted that stated

297
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,680
that there were only unless a
product had a specific

298
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:15,800
ingredient that Purina's product
has.

299
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,440
They could not put hairball on
the label.

300
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:23,800
So basically they have excluded
everybody else.

301
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,440
And that's I think, I think
that's sort of the spirit of

302
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:32,760
what you're talking about is
that that is not in the best

303
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:38,200
interest of pet parents of pets
of the industry to have that

304
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:43,120
sort of a consolidation in that
amount of money in the industry

305
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:48,920
that can sway things.
So what I would say from a

306
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:53,120
brand, a tiny brand who is out
there and has been for decades,

307
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,360
sticking with the same
foundation that we've always

308
00:20:56,360 --> 00:21:01,240
done, where we will look at the
Physiology of the animal, what's

309
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:07,080
needed and formulate to what the
animal needs and make natural

310
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:12,440
products based on that.
Because I have experience in

311
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:17,200
understanding that allopathic
world, that pharmaceutical

312
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,400
world.
I understand what we're up

313
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,080
against.
I understand how they're solving

314
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,280
problems.
And it's very much on that, on

315
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,040
that pharmaceutical side of
things.

316
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,920
Solving the problem is trying to
mask a symptom.

317
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:36,880
Our approach is to work with the
body to actually supplement

318
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:41,120
those good things in the body
that allow it to heal.

319
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,560
And that works.
It's proven over and over it

320
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,080
works.
And I what I would say to

321
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:53,560
consumers is be curious, ask
questions, ask those questions

322
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,280
about who's formulating your
products, who's who's, who's

323
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,280
coming up with these, these
ideas of what what ingredients

324
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,360
to put in and then ask specific
questions about.

325
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:10,680
I'm curious, why are you asked?
Why are you adding, you know, a

326
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,880
prebiotic into this?
Why do you not add probiotics in

327
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,400
any of your products?
That seems odd.

328
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,840
And ask those questions because
the answers that you're going to

329
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:27,160
hear are going to tell you
whether the company is sourcing

330
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,840
ingredients because it's they're
the, that's what everybody else

331
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,080
uses.
And they get an economy of scale

332
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,040
because they're a big company.
They're making a lot of things.

333
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,240
And so they get an economy of
scale by using the same six

334
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,200
ingredients in all of their
products.

335
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,720
Look at the ingredient deck and
ask questions is what I would

336
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,160
suggest.
There are still good supplement

337
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,640
companies out there.
So I don't want to paint the

338
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:58,800
industry as being a sellout.
I will say that I have seen,

339
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:03,400
having done this for two decades
now, I have seen so many

340
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,760
changes.
And I agree with you that in the

341
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:11,800
last couple of years, we are
seeing it go faster and faster

342
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:18,480
to getting closer to that human
side, where on the on the pet

343
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,560
side, pet supplement side,
you've always had companies that

344
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,440
are independent and we know that
we're not, you know, we're not

345
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,560
going to, it's not the cash grab
that a sub a human supplement

346
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,960
would be.
So, so the advantage of that is

347
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,800
that I'm able to innovate in a
really profound way.

348
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:42,920
I'm able to have a company that
is, is sustainable, employs

349
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:47,120
great people, has been around
for decades on the human side.

350
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:52,560
You could not say that because
they develop products to sell to

351
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,400
those people that you need.
Right, Yeah.

352
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,080
So I think you may have just
answered this question with with

353
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,960
the background that you have in
understanding the Pharmaceutical

354
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,360
industry.
But because you did come from

355
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:13,600
the human side, what do you
think you bring to end Clover

356
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,840
that most other pet supplement
brands just don't have?

357
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:27,760
It really is innovation is it's
understanding how the body works

358
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,000
and being able to innovate based
on that.

359
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:37,120
Contrast that with another
approach would be to go online

360
00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:40,360
to look at what ingredients are
popular right now.

361
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:44,920
I think I'll put turmeric in
everything because that's

362
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,800
popular.
The second thing, and this goes

363
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:53,480
a little bit deeper, is that we
have dandelion leaf in some of

364
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:58,080
our products.
We know that the efficacy of the

365
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,880
leaf is very different than the
efficacy of the root or of the

366
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,040
flower.
We have blueberries in our

367
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,480
products.
We know that we can put the word

368
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:12,200
blueberry on our label even if
we just add stems and peels, but

369
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,600
we know that the good
antioxidant, the good juicy

370
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,840
nutrients are in the full
blueberry.

371
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:21,200
So we would never do that.
But if you don't know that and

372
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,440
you're just going out and you're
sourcing blueberry and you're

373
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,560
looking at price, you're going
to go, wow, that's a way better

374
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,400
price.
I think I'll buy that.

375
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,400
And it's not going to be
effective.

376
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,680
You're not going to see results.
I, I think we have a certified

377
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,480
herbalist on staff.
I think that's what we really

378
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,320
bring.
That is a huge point of

379
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:46,000
difference in this industry.
And I'm not sure I, I'm guessing

380
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,720
that your listeners understand
that and appreciate that.

381
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:56,520
And I feel like we need to get
more of this education out that

382
00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,360
there is a difference.
And if you care, be curious and

383
00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:05,880
ask about that.
So having spent so long at this

384
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,400
point in the supplement
industry, what outside of the

385
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:16,440
NASC label, what would you
suggest for a pet parent

386
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,720
listening to this to go in their
cabinet right now and grab the

387
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,160
supplement and read the label
and what are you looking for?

388
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:25,920
What are the first things you're
looking for?

389
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:31,200
What should they be looking for?
I do look when I and I read

390
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:36,800
supplement labels all the time
and I am looking at what they're

391
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,760
two different labels.
With supplements there is what's

392
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:45,880
called a dose form label and on
those it reports the active

393
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:50,720
ingredients and it tells you
exactly how much of every active

394
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,440
ingredient.
Then it reports the inactive

395
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:59,560
ingredients.
The second type of of label is

396
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:04,840
what they call a feed label and
that reports all of the

397
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:09,280
ingredients, but it doesn't
report them by active ingredient

398
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,200
or inactive ingredient.
It just has all the ingredients.

399
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,960
And so I have at my desk, I have
to, this is the tricky part is

400
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,920
that our products are 100%
active.

401
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,760
So it doesn't really matter
because everything in them is

402
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,760
active.
But when you get to a product

403
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:33,120
that's not 100% active, and I
really look at the labels, if it

404
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:36,960
is a dose form, like I said,
it'll say active ingredients on

405
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:42,560
it and it will have those active
ingredients by amount.

406
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,080
So look and see what the amounts
are.

407
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:51,000
And then in the inactive
ingredients, it will report them

408
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:55,920
by alphabetically, which is
crazy, right?

409
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,080
So you'll have the active
ingredients and those are

410
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,280
important.
But if you have like we do a

411
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,960
soft chew, so we have to put
some binders to make it into a

412
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,080
chew, those would be considered
inactive ingredients.

413
00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:11,200
Those are listed alphabetically.
So you don't really know how

414
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:16,320
much is in there, right, Right.
So for that kind of label, look

415
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:21,040
at the actives and make sure
that there's enough of the

416
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:26,320
actives and that it's, it's not
just the ingredient du jour or

417
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,320
they just didn't add a whole
bunch of the ingredient du jour

418
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:34,760
in the other type of label,
which is the feed label, it's

419
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,000
going to say guaranteed
analysis.

420
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,240
When you spin it around, those
ingredients are going to be

421
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,520
listed by quantity.
So how much is in there?

422
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,280
So look at that and and those
are the labels I read really

423
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,680
closely where it's late listing
them by quantity.

424
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,840
And what I want to see is if it
says we have digestive product

425
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,200
that has prebiotics on it, I
want to see those prebiotics

426
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,480
really close to the top.
I want to see organic inulin way

427
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,960
up at the top.
I don't want to see it as the

428
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,840
23rd ingredients because then I
know they just added a spoon

429
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:18,640
wave of it.
It gets more complex because we

430
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,640
add Turkey tail mushroom to our
products.

431
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,840
You can put Turkey tail mushroom
and add the mycelia, which is

432
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:29,200
what's underground.
We add 100% fruiting body

433
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,160
because that's where the
nutrients are.

434
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,920
So just reading the label,
you're not going to understand,

435
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,960
are they adding really the
active component or are they

436
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,360
just adding so that they can put
a bigger number?

437
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,280
Are they adding or put it closer
to the beginning of the

438
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,960
ingredient deck?
Are they adding that blend of

439
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:55,040
not so great ingredients?
So that so reading the label and

440
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,520
ASE quality seal benchmark,
that's like a low bar to make

441
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:04,920
sure then reading the label and
then looking at the brands.

442
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:09,560
What we find in this industry is
that if you have a brand that

443
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,880
does it well, they do it well
across the board.

444
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:14,960
They're not going to just source
one product.

445
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,360
If you've used say their hip and
joint product and you found

446
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,480
great results for that, then
support them, look at their

447
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,800
other products that you could
that and really support those

448
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,680
brands who are doing the work to
curate the right ingredients.

449
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:34,520
Every supplement label has a
contact.

450
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,480
It has contact information on it
that's required if they're

451
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,520
labeled correctly, I guess that
would be the other place.

452
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,520
If you pull up a supplement and
it doesn't have the company

453
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,640
phone number on it and how to
get in contact with them, that's

454
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,480
not right.
You should be able to get in

455
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,600
contact with them.
That might mean that they're

456
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:58,920
just, you know, they're, they're
not really in the business,

457
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,240
they're just doing this as a
money grab.

458
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,280
And so make sure it does have a
contact.

459
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,040
And when you call them, you
should be able to talk to a

460
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,880
person.
I always like to say, ask them

461
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,080
if they can talk, if you could
talk to the person who

462
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,160
formulated the product, because
that's going to be really

463
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,040
telling.
Because if they don't know who

464
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,560
formulated their products, who
came up with this this

465
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:31,240
formulation, that's a bad sign.
That's yeah, very interesting.

466
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,600
You know, and one of the things,
this is just a side tangent

467
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:41,320
honestly, that I've learned in
life is that companies, so many

468
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:46,360
companies tend to put somebody
on the phones for customer

469
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,640
service, whether that's
somewhere you go in person or an

470
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,280
online store, wherever that is
like completely under trained,

471
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,120
the lowest paid person on the
staff.

472
00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:01,200
And this is often times like
this is your company's

473
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,600
representation to the public a
lot of time.

474
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,440
And it's like that should be one
of your most well trained staff

475
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,920
member, But that's just not like
the world we live in.

476
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,560
People don't value reception.
Like you know what I like it's

477
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,040
it's very interesting.
That's just a side tangent that

478
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,840
I.
That is interesting and I agree.

479
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:27,600
And that is something that if if
I call a company and I get that

480
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,680
person who has no idea or just
has a script in front of them

481
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:36,960
and isn't able to have agency to
to even talk to me off script,

482
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:43,320
that sets off some red flags.
Yeah, I mean, I like I get being

483
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,400
a small company and you know,
trying to trying to be

484
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,280
everything to everyone all the
time and, and trying to fill in,

485
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,360
fill in gaps.
But yeah, it is definitely

486
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:58,040
difficult because you really do,
like you said, you, you anything

487
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:02,120
public facing, anything talking
to whether it's your website or

488
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,720
who is answering your phone like
it, it really is so important

489
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,160
and so many companies just don't
value that.

490
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,240
Not just, and I don't just mean
with like in the pet and I mean

491
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,680
everywhere.
Like if you think of anywhere

492
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,840
you call, like how frustrated
are we with customer service

493
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,880
just anywhere we call?
Absolutely.

494
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,280
Yeah.
But anyway, that's a tangent, a

495
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,880
little tangent.
I went on what you mentioned

496
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,800
earlier about when you were
talking about innovation.

497
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,960
You also said something about
like sustainability because and

498
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,320
there's a lot of different ways
you could look at

499
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,000
sustainability.
You can look at sustainability

500
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,280
as far as, you know, the
ingredients that you're using

501
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,480
and the impact to the earth and
the the environment.

502
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,920
You can also look at
sustainability as like you know,

503
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,960
are you going to as a business
be able to grow and provide

504
00:33:54,360 --> 00:34:01,000
these the same quality of
product as you're growing to

505
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,080
more and more pets.
And I'm curious what your

506
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,159
thoughts are on what you meant
earlier by sustainability?

507
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,320
I love your insight on that
because when I said the word

508
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,440
sustainability earlier, it
really was that we have a good

509
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:24,600
foundation as a company that
allows us to continue to provide

510
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,679
products 2 pets over a long
period of time.

511
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:33,080
And that's really important to
me foundationally as a company.

512
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:37,040
We're not built on a House of
Cards that's just held up so

513
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:43,159
that we can then, you know, move
it to somebody else and do other

514
00:34:43,159 --> 00:34:45,360
things.
We have deep roots.

515
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:52,080
We have a deep foundation.
We also are passionate about the

516
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,719
other meaning of sustainability,
which is interesting to me

517
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:02,000
because yesterday we took our
full team over to the Pet

518
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,840
Sustainability Coalition, of
which we're members were

519
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,800
actually a top award impact
leader for supplementation for

520
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,920
the sustainability through third
party audits.

521
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,480
So very important to us.
I also give back, I volunteer on

522
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,960
the board of directors.
I really believe in

523
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:27,040
sustainability and giving back.
We went over and we did a class

524
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:31,080
on sustainability one O 1 to
learn what it means and it means

525
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,520
so many different things to so
many different people.

526
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:39,160
From our perspective, it does
mean to respect and give back to

527
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:44,520
people, planet and pets and and
that for us is critical what

528
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,560
we're doing.
We need to, it's a journey and

529
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:52,120
we need to continually improve
upon the ingredients that we're

530
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,200
sourcing, the packaging that
we're using for those

531
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:02,040
ingredients, making sure that
we're aware of what our impact

532
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:08,360
is at every step of the way.
We also have a lot of passion

533
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:14,000
around community and inclusion.
And we have over the past

534
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:19,960
decade, 2 decades, we have hired
over and had working at our

535
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:25,520
facility over 45 individuals
with intellectual and

536
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,760
developmental disabilities.
And so right now if you purchase

537
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,960
our products, if you're
purchasing our, we have a

538
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:39,160
connect in soft chew 20 count,
which is a small container that

539
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,440
has to be assembled.
So we put the the soft chews

540
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:49,400
into a sealed bag and then that
goes into a container with a

541
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:54,280
label on it that is assembled by
individuals with intellectual

542
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,000
disability.
If you buy our Optojust sticks,

543
00:36:58,240 --> 00:37:00,520
same thing.
They are put into containers

544
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:06,880
because we believe that we
should provide a world for all

545
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:13,200
abilities and that allows us
also as a company to have that

546
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,120
diversity of thought and it
really makes us a better

547
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,640
company.
It is such a win, win situation

548
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:24,080
and in all of those things I see
as part of sustainability.

549
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,800
And, and this is, this has been
a huge journey for me because

550
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:32,880
when I first started 11, almost
11 years ago, we joined the PET

551
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,320
sustainability Coalition.
I thought that sustainability

552
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,120
meant that all of our packaging
was recyclable, which we had

553
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,760
already done.
So I was like, check, we are a

554
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,480
sustainable company.
And then I learned that, Oh my

555
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,400
gosh, this journey is we're just
going to continue on this.

556
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,200
Yeah, it is.
There's so much to think about,

557
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:55,120
South, Very much to think about.
In fact, I'll just one thing I

558
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,480
learned this year, early this
year, I was listening to Rita

559
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,600
Hogan, who's a canine herbalist
that everybody's familiar with.

560
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,720
Actually, it was on one of the
podcasts I had with her and I

561
00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:09,960
was talking about essential oils
and because she obviously works

562
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:15,120
with plants and essential oils
are derived from plants,

563
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:19,400
obviously.
And she was like, yeah, but it's

564
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,960
not sustainable to use essential
oils in the way that we're using

565
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,520
them today, which also is
probably why there's so many,

566
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,800
like, counterfeit, not actual
essential oils that are labeled

567
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,000
as essential oils on the market.
And that has really made me

568
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,720
rethink how I utilize essential
oils, not just for me and my

569
00:38:39,720 --> 00:38:43,840
pets, but in my practice working
with clients one-on-one.

570
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:47,480
And there are a handful of
things that I do like that, that

571
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,160
I am like when, when I realized
like with colostrum or something

572
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,160
like that, I realized there's an
ethical concern.

573
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,840
It is definitely not the first
thing I reach for anymore.

574
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,120
It's something that I'm like,
it's there.

575
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,640
It's really effective.
But let's try some other things

576
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:07,240
first because it's, it's not
sustainable in the way that

577
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,080
we're using them right now.
So I, I appreciate that very

578
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,920
much and I love to continue to
learning like what is and isn't

579
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:15,600
sustainable.
And you know what?

580
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:20,960
This, whatever I'm using a
recommending has an impact on to

581
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,040
the planet, to the environment
because it's it's, you know,

582
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,720
it's just actually recording a
podcast with Billy Hookman

583
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,800
yesterday and he brought up
kelp.

584
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,320
And I was like, yeah, you know,
kelp was a big deal this year

585
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,040
because we realized that
apparently there isn't, I don't

586
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,360
know, like, I haven't done a
deep dive, but apparently there

587
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,760
isn't a source of help anymore
that doesn't contain some amount

588
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,520
of lead in it because we've
destroyed our planet, right?

589
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,840
And like this things like that
that just make me think like,

590
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:55,160
how can we do better?
And not just, you know, bitch

591
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,320
and moan at manufacturers for
putting out a product that has

592
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:03,080
lead in it, but realizing that
we have done this to our planet

593
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,640
and this is where we are now.
So what do we need to do to

594
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,600
backtrack and fix things?
Another tangent, I'm sorry.

595
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,360
But that is, that's something
that you have degenerative

596
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:20,000
practices and then you, you have
sustainability and then you have

597
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,680
regenerative practices.
And we are at a point where we

598
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,960
can't afford just to go to
sustainability.

599
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,480
We have to go to regenerative
because we've done the

600
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,680
degenerative piece of it.
And, and, and it, it is, it's a

601
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:39,720
heavier lift and it is possible.
And, and I'm, I'm going to give

602
00:40:39,720 --> 00:40:42,960
you 1-2 examples, one action
item.

603
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:48,120
So one example is that we use a
very specific kelp,

604
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,400
ascofylamidosin and two of our
products.

605
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:58,000
And this kelp is a huge and this
is to me is fascinating because

606
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,480
of the sustainability story.
And and it gave me goosebumps

607
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,760
when you talked about Rita
talking about essential oils.

608
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:09,760
Oh my gosh, that is powerful it
and with the kelp it, it is we

609
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:14,280
have to be, we have to be
thoughtful about this.

610
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:21,120
So our source of kelp comes from
a farm in northern Maine that's

611
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,280
harvested off the Atlantic
Ocean.

612
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:28,520
The the, the woman who owns
this, she's been doing, has been

613
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,280
doing this for 35 years.
She has been a good friend of

614
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,360
mine and of sadly, she passed
away this year.

615
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:41,720
And that's is her, her work is
being carried on and she has

616
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:49,320
pictures of over 35 years how
her kelp beds single strain, so

617
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:53,680
very important that these are
her kelp beds are have

618
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:59,000
flourished more than the native
kelp out in the ocean, which she

619
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,880
is in the ocean.
But she has her own beds, but

620
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,680
they flourish more.
And the reason is because she's

621
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,280
cutting them back.
She's tending to them.

622
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:11,000
And if you've, you know, if
you've gardened, if you've grown

623
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,280
roses, you know that you can
make them better by cutting them

624
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:20,560
back and tending to them.
She is very careful about how

625
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,560
she handles her kelp and when
she harvests from harvest to

626
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,800
when it goes into our dental
product or into our daily multi

627
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,160
product, it's 8 hours time.
So it's not just laying out on a

628
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:36,040
beach, getting contaminated,
it's going right into her

629
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:41,800
facility, all of those things
that are thoughtful and careful.

630
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,720
And even though we still label
it kelp, it's very different

631
00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:49,400
than going out there and getting
some polluted, some polluted

632
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,720
kelp.
The action that you can take,

633
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:57,280
and this is totally a tangent,
is that we make decisions about

634
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:01,720
what we're going to put in our
supplements and use

635
00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:03,720
sustainability as one of the
factors.

636
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:09,240
We don't have very many meat
products in our supplements and

637
00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:13,840
the meat products that we do,
we're using like the trachea

638
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,920
that would be thrown out in many
cases.

639
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:22,480
So we're taking pieces, parts
that we can pull nutrients from.

640
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:28,960
Overall, we're using a a plant
based or fermentation based

641
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:33,800
structure.
When you buy pet food it's going

642
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,600
to have protein and typically
that will be meat, beef,

643
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,320
chicken, Turkey, lamb as one of
the top ingredients.

644
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:46,360
Our pet food companies have
become marketing companies and

645
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:50,600
as such they have marketed human
grade ingredients as being

646
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,920
critical.
What we're taking from our

647
00:43:54,240 --> 00:44:00,680
protein meat chain does not have
to be to go into the pet market,

648
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,200
does not have to be the human
grade ingredients.

649
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:08,840
We can pull those nutrients out
of the byproducts and Co

650
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,480
products, the organ meats, the
things that are full of

651
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:16,160
nutrients and they're things
that humans don't want to eat.

652
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,200
They don't want to eat the
lungs, they don't want to eat

653
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,760
the organs.
But our pets can derive those

654
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:26,800
nutrients from those pieces,
parts until we recognize that

655
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,280
the marketing piece of this and
saying look how good this is,

656
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,720
this is all human quality is not
a good thing for our planet and

657
00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:36,840
it's not necessarily a good
thing for our pets.

658
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,760
They need some of these other
nutrients that are available.

659
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:45,640
Let's put another lens on this
and let's say in our pet

660
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:51,280
industry, let's purchase things
that are the nutrient dense Co

661
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,600
products.
Let's look for that, and let's

662
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,280
not be so hung up on human grade
everything.

663
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,400
I totally agree with that
statement about human grade

664
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:06,200
being just so I'm very
entrenched in the pet food world

665
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:11,000
and it is something that a lot
of people are like no, this is

666
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,400
the hill I'm going to die on and
I'm not buying anything that

667
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,640
isn't human grade for my animal.
And while I appreciate where

668
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,320
they're coming from and what
they think they're doing, it

669
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:28,240
isn't like you said, like, but
also we allow so much like it's

670
00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:30,520
looking at the wrong things,
just like you were saying it's

671
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,120
looking at the wrong thing.
Like, yes, do I want to make

672
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:38,840
sure that it's not, you know,
slop that has been left outside

673
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:43,160
that, you know, it's rotten and
rancid and going into my pet

674
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,000
food as a meal product, yes, I
do want to make sure of that.

675
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,320
But also like I want to make and
I want to make sure that it's

676
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:53,400
not a carcass that was failed by
the USDA because it has a

677
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,760
cancerous tumor.
Like those are the things that I

678
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,480
do want to make sure of.
But just like you said, like

679
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,920
there's so much that doesn't go
into the human food supply that

680
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:08,160
is perfectly good and has really
incredible nutrient value that

681
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,800
just humans won't eat.
But it's amazing for our what it

682
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,120
probably would be really good if
we did eat it, but we're not

683
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,720
going to really amazing for our
pets.

684
00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:20,440
So it is like you just said,
it's, it's, there's so much

685
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:24,520
marketing and, and like there's
a piece of it that is true that

686
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,600
we do want to look for, but then
there's this whole other piece

687
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:29,480
that people aren't thinking
about.

688
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,960
Yeah, it can be confusing
because I don't want to feed my

689
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,960
my animals Animal Digest.
I don't want to feed them

690
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,760
anything that comes.
You know that I am, I feel so

691
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:48,880
strongly about the, the high
quality and being knowledgeable

692
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:53,640
to understand how to
differentiate the folks who are

693
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:57,400
trying to put Animal Digest in a
bottle and say this is good and

694
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:01,520
the folks who are putting organ
meat in a bag and saying this is

695
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:03,280
great.
And I love, I don't know if

696
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:07,160
you're familiar with, there's a
company called Bond Pet Food

697
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:11,480
who's doing work right now
researching fermentation, making

698
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:18,960
protein through fermentation.
So taking a cell from a chicken,

699
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:23,400
putting it into a microorganism
and then putting it into like a

700
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:29,360
big soup kettle and growing meat
that tastes like chicken, but it

701
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,960
doesn't necessarily look like
chicken, but it has the nutrient

702
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,200
profile of chicken.
So it has all those nutrient

703
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:40,880
dense things.
So somebody who has seven

704
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:47,200
chickens who are pets, members
of my family, all name I, I feel

705
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,560
like that's an interesting
approach that we can, instead of

706
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:54,760
having these mass chicken farms
where we're growing meat

707
00:47:54,760 --> 00:48:00,240
chickens in a very inhumane way,
we can look at other options of

708
00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:06,360
how we can grow chicken without
having to kill chickens and do

709
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:10,560
it in a very sustainable way.
There's still work that needs to

710
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:15,120
be done to make this something
that's commercial and something

711
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:21,080
that we would be interested in.
But it's an example of how pet

712
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:26,640
parents can drive that kind of
sustainable innovation.

713
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:32,960
Because as humans, we may not be
willing to eat a Patty that has

714
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,760
the same nutrients as chicken
but isn't chicken.

715
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:40,560
But I promise you, our pets will
not have that squeaminess that

716
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:46,480
we have.
Yeah, I mean, I, I'm so big into

717
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:51,160
regenerative agriculture because
it's not just about making sure

718
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:56,680
that the animals that we eat
that are pet seed are as healthy

719
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,720
as possible, that their lives
are as good as, you know, they

720
00:48:59,720 --> 00:49:01,200
have the best quality of life
possible.

721
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:06,120
But it's, you know, regenerating
the soil, which is like so much

722
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,760
of our soil is dead, which also
means that the plants were

723
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,200
growing aren't as nutrient dense
as they should be.

724
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,200
Like we we may not be getting
even the medicinal qualities out

725
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,520
of them because they are they're
being grown in dead soil or

726
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,320
maybe not growing at all in
areas they should be growing.

727
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,440
And it's, it is very complex for
sure.

728
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:27,200
And there's a lot that needs to
be done.

729
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:31,000
A lot.
And there are a lot of groups

730
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:36,560
right now that are doing work
with regenerative agriculture.

731
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:42,720
Dave Carter at Flower Hill
Institute is doing amazing work

732
00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:49,000
and supporting small, diverse
ranchers at providing help to

733
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,480
make their ranch more, more
regenerative.

734
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,000
And so I think there are, there
are folks out there that are

735
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:59,000
doing the good work and for
consumers to understand that

736
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,120
that work is happening, it's
happening today.

737
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:06,000
And, and educating ourselves,
being more aware, understanding

738
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,680
why it's important because we've
already the degenerative side

739
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:14,280
has, has taken us to a deficit,
which means that our plants

740
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,120
don't have the nutrients that
they had before.

741
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:22,680
And even on my tiny little, I
have 4 acre ranch and, and in

742
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:26,280
this tiny little ranch, I
figured out a way to work

743
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:30,440
regenerative agriculture into
our pastures.

744
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,800
So we have horses that are
grazing on pasture land.

745
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:38,840
We take the manure from the
horses, we put it back out to

746
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:43,400
amend the soil, put the horses
out so that then they can make

747
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,960
the divots in the pasture and
then their urine provides the

748
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:51,960
nutrients, the nitrogen, and
also as they're defecating out

749
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:54,120
in the pasture is providing
nutrients back.

750
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:59,680
We had our local department of
AG person come out and look at

751
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:03,680
the soil and look at the plants
because that's what our animals

752
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:05,920
are eating.
And they're like, yeah, they're

753
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:07,720
native.
They're not weeds.

754
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,280
We have no irrigation.
We have no water on that.

755
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:15,440
It's just us amending and caring
for the land.

756
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:19,840
And it's a very small, tiny
little way that we can make an

757
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:24,120
impact and make a difference.
But we can, by educating

758
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,280
ourselves and understanding we
can make a difference in just a

759
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:32,120
number of ways in our world.
You know, I love this

760
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:35,320
conversation because like
surface level, somebody who's

761
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:39,600
who might be listening to this
podcast for the first time might

762
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,160
be going, I thought we were
talking about supplements, but

763
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:47,560
like we are like this is it goes
so much more deep than just

764
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,560
what's on the label of a
product.

765
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:53,520
And I think that's why I like
having this podcast so much, so

766
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,960
that we can get into like a
little bit more of the nitty

767
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,040
gritty of the things that are in
my brain that I wish were in

768
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:04,840
other people's brain.
It's powerful because that's how

769
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,280
people are going to be educated
about this.

770
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:13,520
And your, your point is so
relevant that yes, you can have

771
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:17,600
a company who just, they just
ask somebody else to go out and

772
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:20,280
buy and they, they just cuz
they, you know, we, we know that

773
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,760
hip and joint cell phones are
big and, you know, we want to do

774
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:24,960
a price point of this.
And so come up with a

775
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:28,520
formulation and you can do that.
And it will sit next to a

776
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,240
product that has gone through a
totally other process.

777
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,320
And being able to educate and
understand.

778
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:41,600
The way to do that is by
listening to these insights and

779
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:45,560
making your own decisions that
in an educated way.

780
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:50,440
OK, so we are quickly
approaching an hour so I have

781
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,120
just a little lightning round to
end this off.

782
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,200
What, in your opinion, is the
most overrated claim on a PET

783
00:52:56,200 --> 00:53:03,000
supplement bottle?
This won't be popular, but I

784
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,040
know people like to see it, but
I'm going to say natural.

785
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:09,640
And for all the reasons we just
talked about, Jessica, that a

786
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:12,640
plant isn't a plant.
It it doesn't necessarily have

787
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:14,720
all the nutrients.
It can be natural and not have

788
00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:16,400
all the nutrients.
So I'm going to say natural.

789
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:20,320
Yeah, well, I mean, it's
completely unregulated too, so

790
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:27,720
you can say whatever you want.
Let's see if you could make one

791
00:53:27,720 --> 00:53:32,400
change to PET supplement
regulation tomorrow to snap your

792
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:33,240
finger.
What would it be?

793
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:45,440
To make a requirement that we
have evidence based supplements,

794
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:49,360
there has to be science behind
it.

795
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:52,280
And what does that look like for
you?

796
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,520
Is there a number of studies?
Are you, are you just looking

797
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:59,160
for a study at a reputable
university?

798
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,320
Like what are you looking for as
far as what does what does

799
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:08,160
evidence base mean to you?
It means having the ingredients

800
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:12,560
and I'll just give you like the
here's a kind of a bar that I

801
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:17,120
would say it has to be crossed
having the ingredients used in

802
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:21,560
the species that your product is
marketed.

803
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:25,040
Perfect, that makes a lot of
sense.

804
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:27,920
Is there one hill you'll die on
about digestive health?

805
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:37,200
No probiotics, only prebiotics.
And what that means is I don't

806
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:41,920
want foreign microorganisms in
my digestive health product.

807
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:47,480
I want food for good native
bacteria that are in the gut of

808
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,560
our animals and are personalized
to our animal.

809
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:55,640
I want to feed those bacteria
with prebiotic and I don't want

810
00:54:55,640 --> 00:55:01,200
to add a foreign strain.
Interesting we might have to do

811
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:04,840
another episode on that because
that I completely understand

812
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:08,680
what you're saying, but I think
we, you know, probiotics are so

813
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:12,440
popular right now and they're in
everything, which drives me up

814
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,360
the wall.
But it's that's that's something

815
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,760
that's something to talk about.
Well, thank you so much for

816
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:20,800
being here, Rebecca.
I appreciate you.

817
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,880
I appreciate all of the insight
and knowledge you bring.

818
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:28,160
Where can people find you find
in Clover learn more about your

819
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:33,800
products all of the things.
You can find us at in clover.com

820
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:38,560
and you can find our products at
your favorite neighborhood pet

821
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:42,200
store.
There are 8000 of them in the

822
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:48,200
United States and you can learn
more about us if you if you go

823
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:52,720
go to our website and you
subscribe, our emails are going

824
00:55:52,720 --> 00:55:55,720
to talk about educational
things.

825
00:55:55,720 --> 00:55:57,000
So you can learn more about
that.

826
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:00,640
And of course, in the socials,
Facebook, Instagram, we're in

827
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:05,800
Clover.
Awesome, thank you so much for

828
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,320
this chat.
I had such a good time.

829
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:12,720
I learned a lot of wonderful
things and I just want to say

830
00:56:12,720 --> 00:56:15,280
thank you for being here, guys.
Check the show notes.

831
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:17,360
Everything that she just
mentioned will be in the show

832
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:19,920
notes for you to click and go
straight there.

833
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:25,040
Make sure to follow in Clover.
And with that, I'm going to say

834
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:28,360
have a great rest of your week.
Please give your pets some extra

835
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:32,080
love from me and Rebecca this
week and I will talk to you next

836
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:32,360
week.