242. Fix Your Dog’s Gut: Microbiome with Dr. Odette Suter

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Hey there, it's Jess.
If you're new here, I'm a

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certified professional canine
nutritionist, raw nutrition

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certified for dogs and cats, a
holistic pet health coach, the

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founder of Wild Wellness Pet,
and the host of the Pet

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Parenting Reset podcast that
you're listening to right now,

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where every pet deserves the
absolute best and every pet

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parent is welcome.
Learn from the best holistic and

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integrative experts in
veterinary medicine and

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nutrition every Tuesday right
here on this podcast.

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Or get individualized help with
your pet through one-on-one

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consultations and take a deep
dive into the root cause with

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the Wild Wellness Bioenergetics
at Home testing kit.

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It's time to rethink how we
raise our pets.

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A reset to naturally healthy
dogs and cats.

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If you've been feeling like
there has to be something more,

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something better, a better way
to raise healthier pets, welcome

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to the pet Parenting Reset.
Welcome back, pet parent.

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I'm really, really, really
excited to bring back Doctor

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Odette Souter for you guys
today.

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If you remember, it's been a
little while since she's been on

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the podcast, but if you are an
OG, you remember when she was on

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and you Remember Me saying that
one of the very first books I

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ever read when I first started
going down this journey of

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integrative holistic modalities,
bringing them into my pets

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lives.
It was her best selling book,

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What your vet never told you.
And so first of all, let me

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welcome Doctor Odetsir back to
the podcast.

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How are you doing?
I'm good, I'm good.

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It's so nice to be here and
chatting with you, Jessica.

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I never knew that about you.
Know that that was your first

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enjoying troll.
Yeah, You know, I think that

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because it's been so long.
I mean, it feels like it's been

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so long now because I've kind of
immersed myself in it.

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But I remember the very first
thing I ever found was a

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Facebook page that was it was
not Rodney or Karen, even though

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they have some of the biggest
Facebook pages.

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I found another Facebook page
that led me to them.

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And when I first started, like
just doing a deep dive.

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I love to read.
I love books.

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I love to read.
Give me me all the books I'm

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going to.
I have, I have a stack this big

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of my to be read pile, but not
to mention my audible wish list.

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But yeah, it's, it was one of
the very first books that I

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actually read and I, and it's
very approachable.

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So that was one of the things
when I got started, I was like,

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OK, you know, there are books
that are this thick, you know, 4

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inches thick.
And, and I'm like, OK, I can do

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that, but it's going to take me
some time.

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So finding your book, I was
like, oh, I, I got through that

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on a plane ride, like, but it
was impactful.

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So thank you for this.
Yeah.

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You're.
Welcome.

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Yeah, that's how people tell me
they read it in an afternoon and

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and it really kind of gives them
the, you know, the lowdown

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because in the end, you know,
you can get into all the details

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and sort of lose the forest for
its trees.

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I think that's how we say.
It right, I always say.

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But in any case, and I'm also
somebody who doesn't really beat

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around the Bush, I'm a very bad
storyteller as a result of it

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because like, OK, it started
here and then here's the end. 2

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minutes later, I'm telling you
the story.

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So that's my book.
You know, in a way as well, you

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know, just kind of what really
what really matters rather than

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going on too many tangents and
making it more complicated

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because I think we have enough
of that going on in this world

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right now.
I call it the Internet vomit

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because there's so much
information out there.

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People get confused.
They are overwhelmed with that

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information.
They don't know what to do with

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it.
Either they go and buy a bunch

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of stuff that's not really
helping, or they end up just

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completely paralyzed, not
knowing where to go from having

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bringing it down to basics to
kind of clear things and and

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make it more understandable in
the sense of what is really what

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really matters is very helpful
for people, obviously.

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And I just realized I forgot to
put on my poop hat Rabbit real

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quick.
Anyways, yeah, yeah, we're going

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to be talking about the gut and
everything, you know?

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Yes, yes.
Higher here.

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Well, yes, we are going to talk
about the gut and but before we

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do that, I just want to kind of
continue that conversation you

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just started around this like
vomiting of information, not all

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of which is true.
There's so many opinions and not

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to say that opinions are bad or
wrong, but it's, it's

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overwhelming for a lot of pet
parents and even people like me

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who, you know, I try to stay up
on what's going on and what

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works and what doesn't.
And, you know, all the

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different, some of the different
harvesting modalities.

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And there was a time this past
summer in 2025, I was at a

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conference and there were
multiple speakers.

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And one of the conversations
that I started at the end of the

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conference was that this is This
is why pet parents are so

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confused.
Because even among all of these

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amazing veterinarians and pet
food formulators and all of the

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wonderful people that we love to
listen to, in one conference, we

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had conflicting viewpoints from
two different speakers.

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And it's like both of them seem
right, right.

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You listen to 1:00 and you're
like, you make so much sense and

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you listen to the other and you
go, you make so much sense, but

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you're saying exactly the
opposite things.

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So what do we do?
And and that's just confusing,

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but also to me kind of points us
right back around to the reason

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why so many people are finding
functional medicine again,

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because everything is it needs
an individualized approach.

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And what works for one dog may
not work for another dog.

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Yeah, yeah.
And I think, you know, the

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different things that each of us
learn and bring to the table is

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based on our experience, our
lives, our lenses, our views of

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things and what we were diving
in.

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And so then if you get
conflicting information, doesn't

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mean that one is wrong or the
other one is is right.

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It's, it's more that it may just
fit different, different

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situations basically, but we
certainly also have so much

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information and so much more
knowledge that's coming out.

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For example, microbiome research
has exploded.

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When I was doing my lectures at
the AHVMA conference, I just for

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fun sakes, I googled, you know,
how many new papers were coming

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out every day And within like a
five day period back in, I think

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it was in 23 or 22, there were
like 700 new papers in five days

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that came out.
So that's like, you know, a bit

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more than 100 new papers every
day.

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There's no way anyone can keep
up with that.

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You know, there's, there's no
way.

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And so it's not just microbiome
research, it's mitochondrial

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research, it's research and
cancer.

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It's research and inflammation,
Well, danger response is one of

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the things that I've been kind
of looking into a little bit,

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you know, chronic diseases,
there's exploding and

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information that is coming to
light now and that that makes it

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really confusing.
I mean, it's for me as well.

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I feel like I know this much,
you know, in the grand scheme of

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things.
And so I tend to focus back on,

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we have a little visitor there.
So I tend to focus back on

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what's simple, you know, what
makes sense, what's common

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sense, what what is nature doing
and kind of going back to that

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as my anchor because otherwise I
would also get lost in the weeds

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because for example, in the
mitochondrial cell danger

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response, I can talk a little
bit more about what that is, But

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you know, there's and then
decided, you know, coming up

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with some kind of a drug to
manipulate it.

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And I'm like, OK, probably not,
not the best idea.

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So, you know, it gets really
confusing and you can kind of

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get lost in the weeds and losing
nature.

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And that's a little bit what
happened with the whole pet food

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industry.
I mean, frankly, I mean, if you

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were to, you know, bring a bag
of kibble and write down, you

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know, with all the list of
ingredients that are on there

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and you give that to a person
from like 200 years ago, they're

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like, what?
You know, it doesn't make, it

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makes no sense.
You know, there's no rationale

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to feeding this junk that we're
providing the animals.

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And so we have to kind of let go
of, of some of whatever other

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people are saying and such and
kind of get back to common

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sense.
You know, what do we know,

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right?
We know we need oxygen, we know

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we need water.
We know that we feel better when

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we're out in nature, You know,
these things and and we the body

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knows what it needs to you know
what, what feels good and the

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animals will tell you as well.
You know, for example, my

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neighborhood dog, my neighbor's
dog, if Ioffer him a piece of

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celery, he is like you crazy.
I don't want that stuff I eat

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that, you know, so we have to
kind of listen and and go back

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to that.
And I think that's a little bit,

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you know, what's what we're
being asked to do nowadays is to

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find the power inside of us, the
knowledge inside of us.

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And sure, it's great to have
additional knowledge from, you

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know, because it can make sense
and put some pieces together and

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all of that.
But in the end, we just have to

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focus on on re empowering
ourselves, taking our power back

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rather than giving it away to
someone else and thinking that

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all they know better.
In the end, as a pet parent,

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you're the expert of your
animal.

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You know what works for your
animal.

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You know what makes sense for
them.

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Listening to be your guts, pun
intended, is important.

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Well, yeah, that it's hard to
get back to that where you

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actually kind of know what your
gut is telling you.

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I feel like it's it's become
difficult to get back to that.

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But so you have done tons of
research into the gut microbiome

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and so much so that I'm like
intimidated.

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I don't really even know what to
ask you because I have no idea

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what you know.
I think at the end of the day,

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we can probably bring it back to
a very simple statement like you

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just made about getting back to
nature.

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What are some of, if you don't
mind divulging some of like if I

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were to just ask you what's like
the most interesting or coolest

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thing you've learned in your
research, What comes to mind?

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Well, I think the, the coolest
thing is really that most every

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microbe, parasite, yeast,
whatever fungal, you know,

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Organism or whatever is out
there, they're not our enemies.

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You know, because we were
trained and not for not that

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long, we were, we have now been
trained to look at everything as

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our enemy.
And that's not the case because

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most of these, you know, bugs,
they, they've been living on

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this planet for like 3 plus
billion years.

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And they've not really, I mean,
they've kind of evolved and

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they've also discovered and, you
know, perfected strategies of

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survival that are absolutely
necessary on this planet.

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And we are at a place in, in the
world right now with all the

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pollution and the destruction
and the diseases and everything

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that we've created.
We are in a place where either

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we are going to find some
survival strategy that is going

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to let us survive and keep
going, or we're going to perish

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and all, you know, die and it's
not going to be the parasites

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and the bacteria and so on.
They are probably going to do

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just fine because bacteria, for
example, they can evolve in like

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a short 2 hour period.
They can completely change and

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adapt to the environment as
humans, you know, animals, we

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have so many cells and so much
going on.

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There's no way that we can adapt
so quickly.

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But you know, we can't forget
that we're only 10% cells and 10

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and 90% microbe.
So we have all of these amazing

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survival specialists and experts
to help us adapt.

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And so if we can keep them alive
in US and have that diversity of

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of microbial of the microbial
community, then then we stand a

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much better chance.
And there's a lot of research

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going on these days with
microplastics.

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You know, how can we destroy my
microplastics?

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And there are some probiotics, I
think it was from the

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Lactobacillus family.
I can't remember for sure now.

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But if you have some of those in
your gut and take some of those,

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then it will limit the amount of
microplastics that go into the

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00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,160
system.
So microbes are big going to be

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saving us because they can do so
many things that we can't do.

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00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,600
They can process something that
would take years or even decades

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00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,560
for us humans to do that in a in
a lab at temperatures much

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00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:20,240
higher and also creating a lot
more pollution in the process.

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00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,760
So they have like they, they
have incredible abilities to to

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00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,720
do things.
And so making friends, I think

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00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:31,520
is the is the is a kind of at
the forefront for me is, you

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00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:32,960
know, we have to be friends with
them.

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And that's why I post photos of
me in the bathroom.

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00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:37,960
And I know you kind of picked up
on it too.

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00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:42,280
I mean, I haven't done it.
Of a airport, fully dressed.

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I want to yeah, clarify.
Fully dressed.

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00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,960
I know I haven't done it lately,
even though I was traveling

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00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,280
recently, but I every time I
stop in a bathroom in an

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00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:52,840
airport, I always think about
it.

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00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:57,080
I like even one time I went to
go do it, but there were just

240
00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:58,880
too many people in there.
And I'm like, I'm going to be

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00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,560
the weirdo taking a picture in a
bathroom with everybody looking

242
00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:03,080
at me.
Like, I know you're not trying

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00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:07,200
to take a picture with me, but
it is, it is very funny.

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00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,680
And I said I actually said
something to someone recently

245
00:14:10,680 --> 00:14:14,480
when I was traveling because he
was talking about how like

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00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:20,800
health conscious his wife is.
And and somehow we got on the

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00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,960
topic of porta potties.
And I'm like, well, I mean, you

248
00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,000
know, public restrooms, They're
they're they're great natural

249
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,160
FMT, right?
I don't know.

250
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,800
Yeah, yeah.
Well, yeah, And I don't want to

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00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,040
say that everything happens for
a reason.

252
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,880
I truly believe that.
And there's a trajectory and

253
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:48,440
there are learning curves.
But germ theory did a lot of

254
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,920
damage.
And the way our doctors are

255
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,560
taught now where it's just like
kill it or cut it out, basically

256
00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:04,080
like the, everything they, they,
they try to do doesn't when you,

257
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:11,040
when I hear you say, well, we're
only like 10% of us really like

258
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:15,600
then it really like really puts
it into perspective as to why

259
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,640
that's not ever going to work.
And it could work in some

260
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,040
certain situations, like it
might be necessary.

261
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,440
I don't ever want to say that.
I mean, thank goodness for

262
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,600
emergency medicine, right?
Goodness, we have that, but it

263
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:34,520
really puts it into perspective
as to how detrimental it is for

264
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,360
us to always reach for that
first.

265
00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:41,040
Yeah.
So when we think about, I truly

266
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:46,040
believe we're like as humans,
we're in a health crisis.

267
00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,080
We have been in a health crisis.
I think people are waking up to

268
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:50,480
to the fact that we're in a
health.

269
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,560
Not everybody, but I think
people are waking up to the fact

270
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,760
that we're in a health crisis
and that our food and

271
00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,640
environment are huge factors in
that.

272
00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:01,720
And the same is true for our
pets.

273
00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:05,720
You've already talked a little
bit about pet food and certainly

274
00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,320
I talk about pet food all the
time.

275
00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:13,400
It's it is my thing that I will
always talk about and hydration.

276
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,720
And like all the things.
I actually, the reason I

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00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,560
hydration came to mind is
because the, the, the day we're

278
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,520
recording this episode that's
going live tomorrow is with a

279
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,880
water expert.
And I actually like put this off

280
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:29,880
for so long because for whatever
reason it feels so overwhelming

281
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:37,360
to me to tackle how terrible our
water supply is and not really

282
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:43,240
knowing the best answers for it.
And also knowing that this is

283
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,520
just a tangent I'm going on.
The EPA guidelines are

284
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:52,880
detrimental to women because
they're based on 170 LB man.

285
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,600
But then to think about how
detrimental they are to our pets

286
00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:01,440
just because all of the EPA
guidelines are based on 170 LB

287
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,800
man.
Like we don't even think about

288
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,160
this.
And my mind is being blown.

289
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,119
I just edited the episode and
I'm just like, this is so over.

290
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:10,240
I don't even know if I want to
put this up.

291
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:11,440
I'm going to put the episode
out.

292
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,640
But to me I'm like, I'm still so
overwhelmed.

293
00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:20,560
And so overall, just the idea of
keeping ourselves and our pets

294
00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:25,920
healthy can just feel so
overwhelming to pet parents, to

295
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:31,480
even pet professionals.
I feel like even somebody like

296
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,240
you who you know, you're
professionally trained as a

297
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,240
veterinarian, like, do you have
moments of overwhelm still,

298
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:40,880
especially when you dig into,
like, as much research as you've

299
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,000
been digging into, do you still
have those moments of overwhelm?

300
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:47,800
Yeah, yeah.
Because it feels like there's so

301
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,160
much more that I want to learn,
and it just kind of flattens me

302
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,000
out when I just think about it.
Except it makes me tired, you

303
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,760
know, to think about it.
But certainly, and, and, you

304
00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,960
know, in the end, you know, I'm
not the youngest chick on the

305
00:17:59,960 --> 00:18:02,840
planet anymore, you know, So
I've had time to sort of go

306
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,360
through the process of coming
out of that school thinking I

307
00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:11,000
have to know everything,
behaving as if I need to be God

308
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,920
because there is no God that's
going to save all the animals.

309
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:17,960
And if I don't do it and you
know, there's, it's not going to

310
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,320
happen type of thing, which, you
know, it's more of a

311
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,560
subconscious thing.
It's not like, you know, I'm

312
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,200
going in there.
I don't have to save this

313
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:26,480
animal.
I mean, certainly there's,

314
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,640
there's some of that, but I've
kind of come around, you know,

315
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,600
in a circle where I'm, I'm more
at peace with not knowing

316
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,800
because I've realized that when
I'm, when I'm in that space of

317
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,560
not knowing, then usually I get
some answers.

318
00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,680
Something will come up.
And sometimes something comes up

319
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,560
with an animal and I just sit
with it for like a few days and

320
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,040
then all of a sudden I'm like,
yeah, that's what we need to do.

321
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:54,880
So it's changed that way, but
it's, it was, it was not easy

322
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:56,840
to, to get here.
You know, I had to do a lot of

323
00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:01,760
work on it because it requires a
lot of trust and a lot of well

324
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,240
and, and experience that things
will turn out OK.

325
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,080
Because if I look back, you
know, even though things weren't

326
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:12,640
always all nice and peachy and
and rosy, in the end, everything

327
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,760
is seemed to always get better.
You know, like it was kind of

328
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:18,800
like a upward spiral.
Basically.

329
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,640
You revisit some of the same
things, but it's it's always

330
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,280
getting a little bit better.
And so that, you know, looking

331
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:31,720
back kind of creates more trust
that things are OK and we're

332
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,800
going to be OK.
And, and certainly learning from

333
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,480
all the experiences and
realizing that life is giving me

334
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,120
things.
It's not doing something to me.

335
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,920
You know, it's not about
punishment, you know, whatever

336
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,800
the lessons are.
It's about helping me to grow

337
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,120
more and have developed more
wisdom, more trust, more faith,

338
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:54,640
more, whatever it may be.
So I hope that answered your

339
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:56,440
question.
Yeah, yeah.

340
00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:03,760
Well, and I think the undertone
to all of that is this like grip

341
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,760
that we have on trying to
control everything that we have

342
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,360
to be able to let that go.
And like you said, trust that it

343
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,760
it's all going to work out.
That can be really, really hard.

344
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,920
That's not easy because we're in
the survival.

345
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:19,840
I mean, we're survival beings,
you know.

346
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,440
I mean, the physical body is
about surviving.

347
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,720
I mean, that's the main function
of the body, survival and

348
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,960
procreation.
And so, yeah, you kind of hit it

349
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,920
on the head about the control,
you know, and the more we try to

350
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:36,720
control things, the worse it
gets, generally so.

351
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,720
I know you have a program that
pet parents can join and we can

352
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:43,640
talk a little bit more about
that later.

353
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:49,480
And I'm sure there's a pretty
heavy focus on the gut and what

354
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:54,440
you can do to support the gut in
its natural processes of

355
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,480
repairing and just overall
health.

356
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,680
What I actually want.
Like, I would love for you to

357
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,240
answer this question in two
different ways.

358
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,400
I would, I would love to hear
what like if you could only tell

359
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:10,640
pet parents one thing to know
about keeping their pets gut

360
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:15,120
health in in line, But then also
what would you tell

361
00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:17,760
veterinarians?
Like the tradition average

362
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,560
veterinarian in America who is
probably very overwhelmed

363
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,320
working for a corporate
corporation, like doing all the

364
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,200
things that most I think
veterinarians in this country

365
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,800
now are doing.
I can imagine they're probably

366
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,080
two different things.
I'm curious, what would you tell

367
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:34,120
if have parents?
What would you tell

368
00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:36,680
veterinarians?
Actually, it would be the same,

369
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,200
yeah.
I would say, you know, what is

370
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:45,920
nature, you know, what did
nature give the animals to be

371
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,280
able to survive?
I'm sure with a veterinarian, I

372
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,480
would probably go a little bit
more into Physiology and ask

373
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,640
them, you know, do you really
think the Physiology of an

374
00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:00,360
animal has changed in the last
100 years when it took 3 billion

375
00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:04,920
years to get where we are now?
I doubt it, you know, I mean,

376
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,320
you'd have to show me that
certainly the pathologies have

377
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,600
changed because we've made a
mess of things.

378
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,440
But if you look at it, you know,
I think an animal will still

379
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,680
thrive much more on, on what
nature provided if they're

380
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,800
decently and if they're in
decent shape.

381
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,880
I mean, if you take a dog or a
cat who has major inflammatory

382
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,680
bowel issues going on or
whatever it may be.

383
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,360
I mean, I see so many animals
that are hypersensitive to

384
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:32,200
everything.
You know, you change, you give

385
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,640
them one treat and they have
diarrhea from that.

386
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,200
And you know, I'm talking about,
you know, this much.

387
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,240
So I'm, I'm not talking about
those animals, obviously.

388
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:42,840
Yeah.
Sometimes with those you can't

389
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,160
just switch things around, but
or just say we're gonna do what

390
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,080
nature provided because they
can't handle it anymore because

391
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,320
they're so sick.
So we have to get them back to

392
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,200
the place where they can handle
nature.

393
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,520
So that's how far away we've
gotten from from nature that we

394
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,680
can't even handle nature
anymore, you know, the way it

395
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,840
was meant to be because we've
gotten so, you know, so sick.

396
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,920
Basically, I go with
veterinarians.

397
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,640
I would probably talk a little
bit more, you know, in that

398
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:15,200
direction and yeah, have them
look at Physiology and, and

399
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,720
maybe see if I could kind of
wake up a little bit of the

400
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,080
common sense.
Because I have to be honest, I

401
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:26,120
don't really understand how they
how any a person can think that

402
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:31,040
some food out of a bag that's
been highly processed can be

403
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,880
something that would be healthy.
Because I mean, if you were to

404
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:40,160
tell somebody, a human, you
should only eat like cereal out

405
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,960
of a box for the rest of your
life and never change.

406
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,760
Always the same one, always from
the same brand.

407
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,000
I'd say they would probably say
I'm insane.

408
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:49,880
I mean, I hope they would say
that.

409
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,320
Yeah, I would hope so too,
because it.

410
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,040
Is crazy there's a big question
mark I don't know what's going

411
00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:00,280
on you know why why there's you
know how they got bought like

412
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,360
that somehow, but.
Yeah.

413
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,160
And I may be wrong as well, you
know.

414
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,320
Who knows?
Yeah.

415
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,280
I just don't think I truly, I, I
will say this as many times as I

416
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:19,080
am afforded the opportunity to
say this, I feel like even

417
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:24,120
though it feeds still the
majority of animals and we have

418
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,480
shelters and rescues and it's
that it's in itself is

419
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,000
overwhelming and sad to think
about.

420
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,280
I still at the end of the day
feel like kibble is just a

421
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,280
failed experiment.
And like at some point we're

422
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,800
going to have to all
collectively come to that

423
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:43,600
realization that this kibble is
the experiment and we are seeing

424
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,840
that it has failed.
Like just look at if we look at

425
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,280
nothing else but cancer rates,
it's it's failed.

426
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,920
Yeah, it's failed.
We're humans, we love to

427
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,120
experiment.
I mean, that's how we learn,

428
00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:57,840
basically.
I mean, you look at a kid,

429
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,520
right?
Or a dog, a puppy, they're gonna

430
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,320
take everything into their mouth
to kind of figure out what it

431
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,000
is, and then they'll go, well,
that's not good or whatever it

432
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,840
may be.
So we all learn through

433
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:14,800
experimentation, and we as
humans have experimented in a

434
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,880
lot of different directions with
a lot of different things.

435
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,560
And unfortunately, you know,
there have been some good things

436
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,400
that have happened.
Obviously, you know, we have

437
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,200
electricity, we have all kinds
of things that we didn't have.

438
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,480
We have running water, we have
wheels, you know, we have, you

439
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,520
know, tools and stuff like that.
But with everything good that

440
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,680
has come out of the
experimentation, it's also

441
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,040
brought in something not so
good.

442
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:41,480
You know, for example,
electricity creates a lot of

443
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,080
electromagnetic, magnetic
radiation that affects the body

444
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:50,560
with running water if it goes
through pipes that have mercury

445
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,680
or whatever.
No lead, lead pipes.

446
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,640
That didn't really work out very
well.

447
00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:59,400
So a lot of the progress comes
with some negative to it.

448
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,680
You know, airplanes, we can fly
airplanes, right?

449
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,320
Which are still kind of
surprised.

450
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,720
I still don't know how that's
possible because I tried to flap

451
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,000
my wings and nothing happens.
But then at the same time, they

452
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,160
create a lot of pollution.
So on this planet,

453
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,040
unfortunately, everything
positive always comes with a

454
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,080
negative because we live in a
world of duality.

455
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,320
And so, you know, with all these
experiments that we've done, you

456
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,680
know, a lot of them have kind of
gone in the direction that have

457
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,040
created a little too much
negativity.

458
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,440
And then the compounding of all
of those has then gotten us to

459
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,520
where we are now, because it's
not just the food.

460
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,920
Because way back when animals,
you know, dogs were probably

461
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,880
able to live on cable their
whole life and nothing ever

462
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,360
happened and they were fine and
they died at what, 1516 or

463
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:48,800
something like that because they
didn't have all the other

464
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,520
compounded things on on top of
everything.

465
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,920
But now we've compounded
everything so much.

466
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,000
And again, I'm not saying we
should feed kibble.

467
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,240
I'm not saying that at all.
But it's like when you're only

468
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,160
dealing with one thing that's
really impacting the body, then

469
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,120
you're more likely to survive it
than if if you have a compound

470
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:10,800
of multiple things that are
affecting it, including also the

471
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,680
genetic and epigenetic changes
that have happened from one

472
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,520
generation to another.
You know, thinking about the

473
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,240
Pottinger cats, I don't know if
you've ever talked about those

474
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:26,120
in the in your podcast.
No, I haven't, but it you know

475
00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:30,920
it, I have so many things that
are that I want to ask you the

476
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:37,120
well first before I go down my
crazy thought process, tell me

477
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:40,120
about the Pottinger cats.
Yeah.

478
00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:45,560
So Pottinger was a Doctor Who
lived kind of in the 1940s, and

479
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,240
he had a sanatorium that he was
where he was basically treating

480
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:53,360
people with tuberculosis.
And at the time, he was using

481
00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:59,080
adrenal extract from cats.
And when people around the area

482
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,960
heard about it, they started
dumping cats at his doorstep.

483
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:07,160
So he ended up with about 900
cats and obviously having 900

484
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,160
cats and needing to feed them,
that was a little bit of a

485
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,120
challenge.
So some of these cats, you know,

486
00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:14,760
he had two groups.
So some of these one group of

487
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,800
cats, they were getting raw, raw
foods, so leftovers from the

488
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,840
butcher, that sort of thing.
And then and raw milk.

489
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,760
And then the other half, the
other group, they got cooked

490
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,480
things, cooked foods, cooked
milk, etcetera.

491
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,960
And obviously, you can see
there's not a huge difference.

492
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,400
You know, it's just from raw to
cook now we are going from raw

493
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,480
to like highly processed kibble.
That is really totally

494
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,600
inappropriate physiologically.
Plus, he also lived in the

495
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,920
1940s.
So pollution was not really a

496
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,040
thing back then because, you
know, there were what, like very

497
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,040
few cars around.
Well, maybe the coal industry, I

498
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,320
don't know.
But in any case, pollution

499
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,280
probably was not not what it is.
And quality of food was still

500
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,600
better than what it is now.
But in any case, with each

501
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,800
generation, these cats that were
on a cooked food diet, they were

502
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,920
getting worse and worse.
So they were eventually losing

503
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:10,720
the Bony structure so that their
skeletal structure of the face

504
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,480
became different.
So if you have a cat that has a

505
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,320
very narrow type of face, they
probably don't have a ton of

506
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,080
bone structure, not the same way
as like a real tomcat with like

507
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,840
the round face, right?
They were getting allergies.

508
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,720
They were getting other kinds of
chronic issues.

509
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:31,440
And then by the 3rd generation,
the third generation wasn't even

510
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,320
able to reproduce anymore on the
diet that they were on.

511
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,960
Whereas the cats that were fed
raw diet, they stayed healthy

512
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,840
throughout the four generations.
And then he tried to also see

513
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,120
how long would it take to take
these diseased cats?

514
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,840
How many generations would it
take to get them back to health?

515
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,800
So he took the first generation
raw, cooked food, cooked, fed

516
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,360
animals and turned them back.
We got them back on the raw food

517
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,240
diet and it took about four
generations just to get them

518
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,800
back to, you know, closer to
where they they were.

519
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,600
They never were completely
healthy.

520
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,760
If you imagine with humans or
animals now, you know, both.

521
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,160
Obviously we start out with a
generation that was really

522
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,400
healthy.
The next generation got more

523
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,640
pollution, more things
compounded.

524
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,360
So they aren't as healthy.
The next generation gets

525
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,680
whatever this generation is
passing along, plus whatever

526
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,400
their generation is getting,
which is more pollution, more

527
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,560
deficiency, more of everything
and so on.

528
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:38,560
So that's why now you see more
animals be sick, being sick from

529
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,680
very, you know, basically as
soon as they're born because

530
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,520
they're getting whatever mom is
passing along, you know,

531
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,320
generation to generation because
from a pollution standpoint,

532
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,560
toxins are passed along for
generations.

533
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,000
Epigenetic changes are also
passed on at least 4

534
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,000
generations.
But because each generation gets

535
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,360
their own junk and, you know,
exposure, it's like it's so

536
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,800
compounded that it just grows
exponentially.

537
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:12,440
The the effect of the, you know,
the yeah, the effect on the body

538
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,920
basically is is gross,
exponentially so.

539
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:22,200
Yeah, we so BC Henshin and I
talked about that without really

540
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,200
knowing what we were talking
about, but we when we it was

541
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:30,680
about two years ago now that a
very popular pet food brand and

542
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,200
a few ancillary brands started
popping up as well.

543
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:38,360
Seemed to be causing a lot of
animals illness and

544
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,880
unfortunately quite a few
animals died like with new bags

545
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,920
of food being opened and there
was never any resolution to

546
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,320
that.
But that is what I had BC

547
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,840
henshin on who has been in the
pet industry, pet food industry

548
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,640
for decades.
And we were talking about like

549
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,480
what, what could this in here?
We were just talking about like

550
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:02,120
his perspective and seeing how
like there are cities and

551
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,840
counties that there is no way
they're going to let anything

552
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,480
happen to a manufacturing plant,
a pet food manufacturing plant

553
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,760
because it literally provides
all of the tax revenue and you

554
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,880
know, all the things.
So it was all of the like behind

555
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,840
the scenes type things.
But that was ultimately what we

556
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:23,240
got to was that, you know, if
we're testing for the same

557
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:28,200
things we've always been testing
for in a pet food bag, that

558
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,640
maybe it's not hitting any
maximums, Maybe it's not hitting

559
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,960
any like, Oh my gosh, this is
horrible.

560
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,040
This is going to kill an animal.
But the fact that so many

561
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,120
generations of animals have been
sick and they're getting sicker

562
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:47,360
every generation, that what was
a maximum before, like maybe

563
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,320
that maybe it's different now
for these animals because they

564
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,560
can't handle as much as four or
five generations ago could

565
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,080
handle.
So I'm glad you actually have

566
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,960
like the scientific information
to put behind that.

567
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,240
Theory.
Yeah, I know, and that's true.

568
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,560
And that kind of would sort of
bring me back to that cell

569
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,040
danger response that I mentioned
earlier, right?

570
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,200
Yeah.
Because anytime the cells the

571
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:17,200
body gets exposed to something
that could potentially kill it,

572
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,920
there's a response from the
mitochondria.

573
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,280
They switch to, you know, from
energy producing to basically

574
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,840
sending out signals of danger.
And what's happening nowadays is

575
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,440
that we are exposed to so many
things that are basically

576
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,960
triggering this danger response
that then we sort of get stuck

577
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,080
in it.
Because, for example, when when

578
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,560
you cut yourself, right,
initially you have some

579
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,520
inflammation, you have more
immune cells that are coming to

580
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,560
make sure it's cleaned up.
And then you have some chemicals

581
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:53,080
that are being released to help
to breakdown and eliminate some

582
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,080
of these damaged cells that are
then gobbled up by the cleanup

583
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,800
crew of the immune system.
And then eventually it starts to

584
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,920
regenerate new cells.
And then eventually the cut is

585
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,000
healed, right.
So that's, that's how a normal

586
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,880
healing response is supposed to
go.

587
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,400
But when we have all these
chronic diseases, it's basically

588
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:16,040
we have the initial whatever it
is that caused it, so that

589
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,800
started it, and then it just
kind of stays in that loop.

590
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,480
It never comes out of that loop.
It never heals.

591
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,199
So it gets stuck in the process
of healing.

592
00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:28,600
And so with chronic diseases, we
have this constant cell danger

593
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,120
response that's that's present
and healing doesn't go anywhere.

594
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:36,080
It just kind of stays there.
So if you then add more danger,

595
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,120
you know, if you add 1 little
added danger to it, it can just

596
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,480
throw everything off.
And that little danger could

597
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,080
also be, for example, a
supplement that should actually

598
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:50,639
help, you know, And that's how
then some animals will react to

599
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:53,239
a little bit of enzymes in their
food.

600
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,840
I mean, that should not cause a
reaction, right?

601
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:01,840
Or switching food from rabbit
from the same brand to Turkey

602
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,640
should also not cause a
reaction, right?

603
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,880
But because there are, you know,
all the cells are already in so

604
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,840
much cell danger response and
and, you know, kind of stuck in

605
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,520
the cycle of of not healing, you
know, things just end up getting

606
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,680
worse.
So when you're saying that, you

607
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,200
know, it could be a multitude of
things that could have happened

608
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,680
with these bags.
Yes, because you know, those

609
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,240
animals who were probably in
better shape, they probably had

610
00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:30,440
less of a reaction to it,
whereas those that were already

611
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,040
sick, they probably would have
had more problems with it.

612
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,280
Yeah.
So I kind of want to switch

613
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,240
gears a little bit, but kind of
also back up because you brought

614
00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:46,400
up cats and eating raw food even
versus cooked foods.

615
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:50,360
One of the things that
especially in the raw feeding

616
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:55,440
community is still talked about
a lot is feeding vegetation.

617
00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:01,320
And I know in well, I don't want
to say I know, I believe a lot

618
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:06,760
of the research that has been
presented to us show that, you

619
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,520
know, more diversity in the
microbiome overall, generally

620
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,440
speaking, is better is going to
lead to a healthier microbiome.

621
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:18,640
And there are some people that
say that vegetation and feeding

622
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,360
lots of different types of
vegetation is the way to get

623
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,800
there.
There are some people that

624
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:29,160
believe that it, you know, still
minimal vegetation and more like

625
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:33,000
fur and feathers and all of like
there's, there's so many

626
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,720
different like ideas of how we
actually get the fiber into the

627
00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:39,760
diet of how we diversify the
gut.

628
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,760
And then I'm curious as to your
thoughts on both cats and dogs,

629
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:48,120
because cats being obligate
carnivores, are we still

630
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,320
concerned with diversity in the
gut microbiome in the same way

631
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,360
we are with dogs?
Are we supposed to get there in

632
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,360
the same way?
How do you view that?

633
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,880
Yeah.
So every species on this planet

634
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:06,800
thrives on diversity.
Diversity is key for survival.

635
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,440
So that goes for cats as well.
Now they will have a little bit

636
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,920
of a different microbiome than a
dog, for example, or a human

637
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:18,840
just because of what they eat.
But they too need fiber in their

638
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,560
in their diets because certain
microbes need fiber in order to

639
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,160
make the short chain fatty
acids, for example, like

640
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:29,760
butyrate, which help with the
energy production of the cells

641
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,200
and gut healing.
It has all kinds of other

642
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,560
functions as well.
But we do need to feed the

643
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,600
microbes and some microbes do
get fed well with fiber.

644
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,680
They need a little bit of fiber.
So we all need a little bit of,

645
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:47,160
of that, But a cat may need less
than a dog, for example, because

646
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,080
of how their GI tract is and
such.

647
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,880
But in the wild, they, they
would chew on little things.

648
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:54,680
They eat a little bit of grass,
right?

649
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,000
They, they will eat a full mouse
because usually what they leave

650
00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:59,520
of a mouse is usually the
kidney.

651
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,920
So there's some something, but
the guts usually get eaten.

652
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,640
And what did the mouse eat?
It ate fiber, right?

653
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,440
And mice have a much bigger GI
tract compared to body size

654
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,960
compared to cats, for example,
and dogs because they have a

655
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,080
much shorter GI tract or a
horse, you know, huge,

656
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,960
obviously, or a cow.
But because we'll all, all

657
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,720
herbivores have a bigger GI
tracts than carnivores.

658
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:28,600
And so a mouse will have a bit
of a bigger, you know, GI tract

659
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,200
as well.
And so there will be more

660
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,880
material in it.
There will be more bacteria in

661
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,920
the gut of a mouse, for example.
So they they would get that too

662
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:39,680
in nature.
So again, we need to go back to

663
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,520
nature.
So can we try to feed them as

664
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,480
close as possible to what nature
would provide?

665
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,160
And I know there are some
companies that sell ground up

666
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,800
mice, although I did try to give
that to my sister's cat once.

667
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,320
And he's like, I'm not eating
that.

668
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:55,280
I mean, I have to.
I had to agree.

669
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,400
It looked a little disgusting.
Maybe you crossed it too long or

670
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,320
something, Who knows.
But in any case, yeah, again,

671
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:02,640
mimicking nature.
Yeah.

672
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:08,320
Yeah, I will.
And that brings up another topic

673
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:13,960
of probiotics, which are all the
rage and everybody talks about

674
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,560
them and everybody thinks that
everybody and every dog and

675
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,200
every cat and everybody should
always be on probiotics.

676
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,440
And I'm not saying that there
isn't some truth in there, but I

677
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,960
definitely have talked to
different people again that have

678
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:30,600
different opinions on the best
way to get probiotics in an

679
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,600
animal.
I certainly talked to some

680
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:37,240
people, people who believe that
it should come as much as

681
00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:40,760
possible from food sources.
And then of course there are

682
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,920
people who love their
supplements.

683
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:47,560
And the only real negative I've
heard, and I'm just curious your

684
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:52,440
opinion on this about like
supplementing probiotics that

685
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:59,840
are not necessarily food based
probiotics is that to have the

686
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:03,200
shelf stability, you're not
getting the really like fragile

687
00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:08,600
probiotic strains and and those
are often what are actually

688
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,520
missing and need to be
supplemented.

689
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:16,720
So they would be better found in
whole food sources.

690
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,480
Of course, there's also the.
The idea that, you know, we need

691
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,640
to be rotating, no matter what
kind of probiotics we're giving,

692
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,880
we need to rotate them because
that's again, the whole point is

693
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,080
diversity.
So what are your thoughts on

694
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:35,040
like food and getting probiotics
from food sources versus

695
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,720
supplementation?
Yeah.

696
00:40:37,720 --> 00:40:43,080
So when we look at probiotics in
the probiotic industry, that's a

697
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:47,480
multi billion dollar industry.
And when, when I looked, you

698
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,640
know, when I did my Biome
research, I looked at what, what

699
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:55,240
are the trends, you know, and so
the trend of probiotic sales is

700
00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:59,400
going up, but what's the trend
of GI issues?

701
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:04,280
It's also going up.
So if the probiotics were to

702
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:10,040
actually work and be this like
magic bullet thing, then the GI

703
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:11,720
diseases should have gone down,
right?

704
00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:15,280
Or both of them should have gone
down, but that's not the case,

705
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,440
right?
So I don't think that probiotics

706
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,240
are, are the full answer.
You know, they can help and in

707
00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:24,040
certain cases certainly.
But you mentioned the viability

708
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,720
of, of microbes.
The thing is that the GI tract

709
00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:30,840
itself in the stomach, it still
has a little bit of oxygen,

710
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,600
still a bit of an oxygen in the
small intestine, but less.

711
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,920
And as it goes further back
towards the anus, there's less

712
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,120
and less oxygen in the in the
gut.

713
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:46,320
And so we also have bacteria
that thrive in oxygen.

714
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,200
They need oxygen to survive.
And then we have bacteria who

715
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,440
would die in oxygen rich
environment.

716
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,600
So they're the anaerobes, right?
And then we have some that are

717
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,280
in between that can survive in
both oxygen rich and oxygen poor

718
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,200
environment.
So when we're trying to

719
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:07,680
replenish the microbes in the
oxygen poor areas in the GI

720
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,600
tract, we need oxygen.
You know, we don't need the

721
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,880
oxygen loving at once.
We need the other ones.

722
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,120
And they're much harder to
culture because you'll have to

723
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,000
also culture them in an oxygen
poor environment.

724
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:24,280
And that is much more difficult
than just the, the regular

725
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,960
probiotics that you can find on
the market that are, you know,

726
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,160
easy to culture.
So that's, that's a little bit

727
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:35,080
of the problems.
They there are now processes on

728
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:39,360
projects going on to make some
of the culture, some of these

729
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,960
probiotics that would be found
more in the large intestine,

730
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:45,880
because that's where most of the
microbes are.

731
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,320
You know, we have a lot more
microbes in the large intestine

732
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,880
than we do in the small
intestine or in the stomach.

733
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,320
So stomach has the least amount,
small intestine has a little bit

734
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,840
more and then we have a lot in
the large intestine.

735
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:01,240
So there are definitely some
project on the way to culture

736
00:43:01,240 --> 00:43:03,600
some of those, but they're not
easy to, to culture.

737
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:07,160
And so that's where the shelf
stability, shelf life and all

738
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,160
that would obviously then then
play a role for sure.

739
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,400
But you know, the, the problem
with probiotics is that if

740
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,080
you're lucky, there's maybe 20
different species in it.

741
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,720
If you're lucky, most of the
times it's maybe four or five,

742
00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:21,240
if that.
And the gut microbiome has

743
00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:26,120
between 300 and 1000 different
species, at least of microbes.

744
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:30,120
So you're never going to be able
to replenish that with like a

745
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,760
small little bottle of, you
know, 5 different strains of or

746
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,240
species of microbes to put into
the gut.

747
00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:39,280
It's not possible.
Plus I obviously am a big fan of

748
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,640
doing fecal transplants because
with fecal transplants you get

749
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:47,320
the micro, the bacteria, you get
fungi, you get protozoa, you get

750
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,000
the viruses because there are a
lot of viruses in the gut as

751
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,800
well that actually keep the
bacteria in check.

752
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,880
So there are viruses that are
specific to to individual

753
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,200
microbes.
So for example, E coli has its

754
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,840
own viruses that keep the E coli
level in check.

755
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,120
And these viruses in the gut
that we call them

756
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,480
bacteriophages.
And so these bacteriophages are

757
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:14,240
also in a fecal transplant.
So they will also help to kind

758
00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:17,840
of balance out things.
And then you also have all all

759
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,720
of the good nutrients that these
microbes just made.

760
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,120
You also have that in the poop.
So when you're doing a fecal

761
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,280
transplant, not only are you
putting all the microbes in it,

762
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,720
you're also putting in all the
bacteriophages.

763
00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:32,680
And then you're also putting in
all of the good nutrients.

764
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,640
You know, the post biotics, I
call them the poop and the

765
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,280
bacterial poop, you're putting
that back in and that will then

766
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:43,960
basically potentiate everything.
So that's why I like fecal

767
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:48,240
transplants much better because
I'm not really big into wasting

768
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,520
money on some something that may
not work as well.

769
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,880
I much have rather have a
sledgehammer to get the nail in

770
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:59,480
than little, I don't know, a
spoon because it doesn't work.

771
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,400
Yeah.
Yeah, interesting.

772
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:06,520
Well, and gosh, I feel like I
could probably just ask you

773
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:10,200
questions forever, but we are
we're getting close to that hour

774
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:15,080
mark and I want to give you the
opportunity to talk about your

775
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,480
program.
And I think probably for me, the

776
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:22,160
best way to learn about that is
obviously every animal, in my

777
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,840
opinion, every animal is going
to require some sort of

778
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:29,880
individualized approach because
they're just so many factors

779
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,720
that are different from animal
to animal, even living in the

780
00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:37,680
same household.
But do you have like a standard

781
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,480
like protocol that you go
through to start with to see

782
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:46,000
where, where everybody's at?
Like, OK, let's fix these, I

783
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,280
don't know, 5 environmental
things and then let's see where

784
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,000
we're at.
And like, how do you start out

785
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,280
with a new client, you know,
talking to a pet parent?

786
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,920
Like how?
What is that framework that you

787
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,120
provide?
Yeah.

788
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:04,320
So I always start out with an
assessment call, so people will

789
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,960
fill out a lengthy questionnaire
so that I have a bit of an

790
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,240
understanding of what the
challenges are and what they're

791
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:13,520
facing and what's, you know, how
is affecting them too, you know,

792
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:19,240
though the owner themselves.
And then based on that, you

793
00:46:19,240 --> 00:46:23,800
know, if they decide to sign up,
I will have them send me all of

794
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,480
the medical records and I will
go through them.

795
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:29,880
And then based on those medical
records, I will then design a

796
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,280
plan to get started.
And usually that starts out with

797
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,520
like very simple things.
Let's add a little bit of

798
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:37,480
enzymes.
Let's talk a little bit about

799
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:39,120
diet.
You know, how can we start to

800
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,200
make some small changes, you
know, add a bit of apple cider

801
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,880
vinegar to help digest things.
And then I will give them the

802
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,680
list of tests that I want them
to do depending on whether they,

803
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,120
you know, just had a what panel
with their vet or whatever it

804
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,600
may, you know, they may have
already have done some of the

805
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,320
things.
So I will just add to it just to

806
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,240
so that I can get the
information that I need in order

807
00:47:01,240 --> 00:47:05,320
to really move forward with them
and really create a real plan.

808
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,960
So that's kind of the strategy
appointment that we we have.

809
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,280
And then they do the blood work
or the lab work.

810
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,280
It's not just blood, it's hair
analysis, you know, to see what

811
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:18,200
toxins are they exposed to, what
nutrients are deficient and what

812
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:22,160
is their overall tissue level
health, You know, for example,

813
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,000
if they're really deficient,
then I know I have to go slowly

814
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:28,160
with that animal and I can't
already going to detox.

815
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,120
So it will give me a bit of an
idea of how quickly can I move

816
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:33,120
forward.
What are the next steps that we

817
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,520
need to do for that, you know,
take for that particular

818
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,520
individual.
And then in the meantime, people

819
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,760
will go through the process of
watching the modules that I

820
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,520
have.
So I go into like the foundation

821
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,680
of knowledge because you know,
as we mentioned earlier, there

822
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,560
is a lot of information, people
are overwhelmed with it.

823
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,520
So I give them that foundation
of knowledge that they really

824
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,000
need to have.
So bringing all of the pieces

825
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,760
together so that it makes sense,
because I find that most pet

826
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,400
parents have a very disorganized
knowledge base because they're

827
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,200
just picking up pieces here and
there.

828
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:09,480
And so it's not organized and
when it's disorganized, then the

829
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,040
process of healing is
disorganized too, because then

830
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,600
they jump from one supplement to
another trying and trying to see

831
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:17,840
if that will help.
But I help them with the

832
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:19,480
modules.
They get that organized

833
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,320
foundation of knowledge that
they can then build on.

834
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:26,320
And that will get empower them
in knowing how to you know what

835
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,200
to how to look at things as
well.

836
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,400
Because it's healing also
requires rethinking, you know,

837
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,080
looking at things differently.
And that's what my book is is

838
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,920
about as well is like, you know,
we need to move away from, OK, I

839
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:39,920
have a symptom.
What pill can I use?

840
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,200
That was kind of the old module,
but then it switched into this

841
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,760
what I call fullistic medicine,
where instead of the pill, we

842
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,120
are now looking at herbs and
supplements and things like

843
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:51,960
that.
You know, so I have a symptom.

844
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,760
What supplement can I use?
You know, for example, my dog

845
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:58,920
can't jump on the couch.
What's what fish oil can I give?

846
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,200
I'm like, well, yesterday was
your dog still able to jump on

847
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:04,960
the couch?
Yes.

848
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,680
OK, so it's not a deficiency of
fish oil, right?

849
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,720
So let's just do some Cairo and
look and see what's going on.

850
00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:12,080
You know, if there's some pain
somewhere.

851
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:15,040
So in any case, I I teach, you
know, the whole process is

852
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:19,280
really to also teach people to
think differently and, and ask

853
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:21,800
critical questions that we ask
with everything else.

854
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,280
Because, you know, if the car
engine light goes on, right, we

855
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:25,920
don't just put a piece of duct
tape on it.

856
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:29,960
We ask, OK, what is it, you
know, have it diagnosed by, by

857
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:31,960
some mechanic.
And so we need to kind of think

858
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:35,120
that way again with the animals
and, and their health as well.

859
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:38,560
So anyway, so they get that
foundation of knowledge, they

860
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,440
get like some rethinking done.
And then at the same time, then

861
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,840
I will also guide them through
the process because I will lay

862
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,400
out a plan for each animal on
how to move forward.

863
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,360
And then we move forward on that
plan during the six months.

864
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,760
So every week we have live
sessions where they give me

865
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,440
updates, you know, they let me
know what's happening, they ask

866
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,880
questions, whatever's on their
mind, and I will give them the

867
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,440
next steps to move forward.
So that way they are really

868
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:08,600
being coached week after week
after week through this protocol

869
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,800
that I set up.
And as a result, you know, not

870
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,120
only will the animals improve,
but they will also have much

871
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:20,520
more knowledge because they see
how I think about things, how I

872
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:24,280
go about things.
And that will then help to kind

873
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,280
of move along and then also help
them with any other animals they

874
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,080
may have and, or for their own
bodies.

875
00:50:29,240 --> 00:50:32,240
A lot of people tell me I'm
doing the same thing for me now.

876
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,920
Yes, my gosh, yes, we need it
just as much.

877
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:43,760
And everything that I learned is
from my own journey.

878
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:48,240
I mean, I had a lot of chronic
health issues from a relatively

879
00:50:48,240 --> 00:50:52,760
early age and it was a real pain
to get through it.

880
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:56,200
And because I had no strategy, I
was just kind of winging it.

881
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,560
You know, I tried a little bit
of this, a little bit of that.

882
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,040
I mean, I give gave everything a
really good try.

883
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,800
So it's not that I gave up like
2-2 days in or something like

884
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:06,600
that.
But nothing really worked until

885
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,080
I figured out what it really
takes, you know, what the

886
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:12,040
strategy needs to be and that
you have to really put all the

887
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:15,880
pieces together to to get there.
And for each animal, these

888
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:19,160
pieces look, I mean, they're the
same, but they will look a

889
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:22,120
little bit different in the
sense of when are we using what,

890
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:25,720
you know, for example, for a
really old dog that's, that's

891
00:51:25,720 --> 00:51:28,920
already sick, I'm not going to
do a bunch of detox, you know,

892
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,960
I'm going to build the body up,
you know, decrease a little bit

893
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:34,920
of the inflammation and build
the body up.

894
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,480
And then if we ever get to
detox, sure, that'd be great.

895
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,400
I mean, I mean, as the body gets
healthier, it will start to

896
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,640
detox a little bit on its own,
but I will not be pushing it so.

897
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:50,680
Yeah, Well, I love all of that.
That sounds absolutely amazing.

898
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:55,080
And I definitely think that it's
a, it's a great, it sounds like

899
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:59,280
a really incredible program for
pet parents to go through to be

900
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:03,720
able to, I mean, even even if
you're just starting out, I

901
00:52:03,720 --> 00:52:06,080
can't tell you how many people
reach out to me.

902
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:10,280
I talk to them, I give them
like, you know, I have a good

903
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:13,480
conversation with them and learn
a lot about their animal.

904
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:17,240
And you know, say, you know, I
think you would really benefit

905
00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:20,560
from this type of testing and
blah, blah, blah, going through

906
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:25,840
all of the things, usually some
sort of HTMA like, and, and six

907
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:28,520
months and, or a year later,
I'll hear back from them and

908
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:31,280
they're like, OK, I actually
need to do something now because

909
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:34,480
I just left the emergency vet.
And I'm like, you know, it just,

910
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:38,680
it gets, it gets worse when you
don't, don't act on it.

911
00:52:38,720 --> 00:52:42,480
And like, I don't know, maybe,
maybe people are getting there

912
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:43,280
quick.
I hopeful.

913
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:45,560
I'm hopeful that people are
getting there quicker.

914
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,640
Yeah, well, because I mean, we
don't like to see anybody in

915
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,920
pain because it's not just
that's in pain and suffering,

916
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,160
it's the people too.
I mean, I talked to one person.

917
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:59,000
They, their dog was so itchy
that the husband who was older

918
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,280
already, like in his 70s or
something like that, he had to

919
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:06,440
actually sleep on his recliner
with the dog on his lap to keep

920
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:11,120
the dog from scratching herself
bloody, you know, that deciding

921
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,600
it was not worth their money.
And so I'm like, OK, well,

922
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:18,560
there's nothing I can do about
that then, you know, So I think

923
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,640
in the end, working with
animals, being in the service

924
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:25,520
business, we have to also learn
to just take people where

925
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:29,720
they're at and, and know that
whatever they're experiencing is

926
00:53:29,720 --> 00:53:32,920
exactly what they need right
then and there, whatever they

927
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,800
decide.
And that certainly is, is a

928
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,440
challenging one too, because we
want to change the world, right?

929
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,040
But we can, it's kind of like
with addicts, right?

930
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,440
You can't make them change
unless, until they kind of hit

931
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:46,480
rock bottom.
And I think, you know, for us

932
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,840
humans, it may be that way in
other ways or in some ways as

933
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:53,200
well, because we tend to learn
more from pain than we learn

934
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:59,520
from from joy and love.
Yeah, sadly, but that goes back

935
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,640
to being creatures of survival,
right?

936
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,600
Like that's how we're programmed
for a reason.

937
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,040
But I think I could continue to
ask you all the questions, but I

938
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:13,920
think that's a good place to end
with that thought and where I

939
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:15,280
would just love for you to tell
people.

940
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:18,160
It'll be in the show notes so
you can just click the link and

941
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:21,440
go, but where can people find
you and find the program?

942
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:26,960
Yeah, they can just go to my
website, itsodetsutordvm.com.

943
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:30,640
They can just go there and find
it there.

944
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:33,480
I have my master class there or
a link to it.

945
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:35,600
So if you go there, then you can
from there.

946
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:38,960
You can then schedule the
assessment call and then we can

947
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:40,520
kind of discuss.
Awesome.

948
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:44,160
Well, thank you so much for
being here and sharing all of

949
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,560
your knowledge.
I know, I don't know, I can't

950
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:50,520
even fathom the amount of time
you have put into researching

951
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:55,200
the microbiome, but I know we
all appreciate it because you

952
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,840
are the kind of person that is
going to hand this knowledge out

953
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:00,040
into the world so that we can
all benefit from it.

954
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:03,400
So thank you for that.
And guys, thank you for

955
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:08,440
listening to today's episode.
Please make sure to whatever app

956
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:12,040
you're on listening to this,
rate the show and share it with

957
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,680
others.
That is the best way to help us

958
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:17,440
continue to put the show out for
you.

959
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,640
And with that, please give your
pets some extra left for me and

960
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:23,840
from Doctor Souter this week and
I will talk to you next week.

961
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:25,720
Yeah.
Thanks everyone.

962
00:55:25,720 --> 00:55:27,120
And thanks for having me,
Jessica.

963
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:29,480
It was fun.
Thank you, Doctor Sader.