Indie Pet vs Big Box: What Happens to Your Favorite Brands? with Toni Unleashed

0:01 Welcome back, pet parent. Today's episode is going to be a fun one. No matter if you are a pet parent or if you're in the industry or wherever you're coming from, if you have pets, this is going to be a super fun episode to listen to. Tony Schlasky is back on the podcast with me. We're doing a swap because this is about Omni channel sellers, brands selling both in Indy pet on their website, often times in big box stores, lots of different places, third party sellers, Amazon, TikTok, all the places and how that not only effects their brand, how it affects sales through all of these channels, but also how it affects you as a pet parent looking to do better for your pet. We're also going to talk about global. We're going to talk about how that plays into Super Zoo, which I'm so looking forward to this year. And just a little bit about us and the things that we see and notice in the pet space.

1:11 Super fun conversation. I can't wait for you to hear it. So here we go. Welcome to the Pet Parenting Reset podcast. If you're new here, my name is Jess and this is a space where we talk about all things health, span, and quality of life for your pets and you too. I'm so excited that you're here. Let's dive in. So Tony, how the heck are you? First of all, I'm so excited to have you. I'm good, good.

1:54 We were kind of riffing a little bit before we hit record. But the reason that I asked you back on was because of an article that came out in this Pets Plus magazine. And I think this is this is both a good topic for it's it's a good topic for industry, it's a good topic for indie pet store owners and staff. It's also a good, in my opinion, a good topic to talk to pet parents about. So I think this kind of covers pretty much anybody that would be listening to either one of our shows. I agree. And I think we both have a combination of all of those listeners, right?

2:39 Yes, I think so. And what's really so the the topic is brands that are Omni channel, meaning that they are selling in Indy pet stores, they're selling on their own website, they're probably selling on 3rd party sites as well. So when we think of, you know, Chewy or Amazon, TikTok even, and then some of them might also be in big box stores. So it's a it's a pretty big topic, quite honestly. And one of the interesting, one of the things that made it even more interesting for me, even though I'm very much into promoting indie pet stores.

3:23 I think it's, it's something that we just in in our little like sub niche. I think we need to be promoting this as much as possible and we can get into the reasons why. But, and you may not know this, I actually recently started an online store. Oh, just in re progression of everything that I'm doing. I don't carry a whole lot of things. It started for me and I'll just this. So this is kind of back story for you so that we can move forward in the conversation. It started for me with just my own personal like clients that I have working with health coaching and nutrition consultations and the things that I'm recommending to them. I'm sending them to 10 different websites to buy them.

4:07 You know, my, my first, the first thing I always tell them is if you can get it locally, get it locally. But not everything is available to them locally. And some people don't have any idea if there's an indie pet store, I'll let you. I, I will go so far as to, you know, go on a brand's website, go to their store locator and see if there is anything around my client within 100 miles. And a lot of times there isn't, which is sad. Yeah. So that's where it started is like I, I get frustrated, I'm sure people, my clients get frustrated with me sending them to 10 different websites. So I'm trying to put everything kind of in one place as much as I can in one place for them. So it's really only things that I, I tend to recommend a lot. So it's a pretty small selection, but that's the back story for me.

4:54 The again, the bigger story is how brands handle selling in so many different places. And I'm sure you have a lot to say about this, so I'm going to let you start. Yeah, it's, it's a really hot topic for so many. The Indies are just super frustrated because they feel like it's a stab in the back. You know, we've we build these brands up and then they go Omni channel. And so, you know, I think we're at a point that it's it's just part of life and it's not going to go away.

5:35 And yeah, from an Indies from an independent pet store standpoint. So before COVID we had a lot of in store seminars and activities and happy out yappy hours, you know, where which people loved and we brought people into the store. I always did seminars and then COVID hit and everybody got away from that because we had to. So we have to as independent pet stores, we have to get back to that to give customers a reason, pet parents a reason to come back into the store. So we have to up our game from the education standpoint, we really do.

6:21 Because these brands, I, you know, there's, there's some new ones coming on the market, but very few. And I, I just think we have to accept it. You know, when it first started happening, there were so many stories of Indies like, you know, pissed off and just dropping the food immediately and all of these things. And Jess, I, I never did, I never took that approach because, you know, pets need time to adjust to foods, whether it's an intolerance or whatever. So I never did that sort of thing. I kind of just educated the customers, put signs up and said, hey, this is what's going on if you want to switch this blah, blah, blah.

7:10 Same with same with buyouts, like you know, if a company sells to somebody else. So it's tough, it's tough, but but there are brands that are going Omni channel that are doing things to support Indies. Yeah, well, and that is exactly what you said is why I try to push people to Indy pet stores so much because that education piece is critical. Like somebody who has who's walking into a big box store. Granted, some big box stores try to have somebody and in house that knows something. I don't personally think that they they know what they should know.

8:01 But walking up to let's say, you know, Petco or PetSmart put in a huge freezer section, average pet parent walking in is just going to look at that and be so overwhelmed. They're not going to have any idea what the difference in this brand versus that brand versus the next brand. And it is so confusing. I get it. It was insanely confusing. And without that education piece, without that, not just the education piece, but actually people there that get to know you, that get to know your pets, that get to know, you know, oh, you know, so and so has a little Yorkie and their spring in the spring and then the fall, their allergies are really bad.

8:48 So we want to make some pivots. And like, that's the piece that is missing for so many people, which is going to get me to another point that I would love to share closer to the end of this episode and something that I think would be really, really great for any pet stores to do. But it it really is that like that piece that we're missing. I think a lot of millennials are there to where like a lot of millennials specifically are looking at the world and looking at society and they're going, I don't want this anymore. I want the Doctor Who I see every single time that knows me, that knows my kids, that knows that I there is no, you know, there's no way I'm going to take that pharmaceutical. You know what I mean?

9:37 Like people want that again, they want off grid, they want to be disconnected, they want off social media. They, and I think Gen. Z is kind of in a similar boat, except they're still really, really attached to the tech and social media. But I also think they're rebelling. And so I think there's a huge opportunity in front of people with Gen. Z. It's fresh. It's a frustrating 1 though. Yeah, so I do, I do. I agree with you. I think we're moving the needle. And every dollar is a vote, right?

10:19 So. And I don't care how many brands go into PetSmart and Petco and whatever. They can't sell raw, they can't sell supplements, they can't have somebody on staff. And I have a video, a recent video of me in PetSmart. I didn't post it yet. I was in there for 20 minutes and I am recording for 20 minutes. So, you know, they can't even greet people, let alone talk to them about food and supplements. So and I just, I just don't see that happening. But I think that maybe a positive is, and I, I talked about this to a few people at global is and this is what manufacturers always tell us. And at first, you know, retailers are like, well, that's just a bunch of bullshit.

11:13 You're just, you know, trying to make me happy and all that kind of stuff. But it does kind of build brand recognition. So if a, if a customer does for some reason start to buy something in PetSmart or Petco, and then they come into an indie pet store and they see the same thing whether it's a treat or whatever, and their dog or cat absolutely love that treat. Them grabbing that and buying it into in an independent pet store cost cost me no payroll dollars because I didn't have to explain why that treat was a good treat for their pet. You know what? You know what I mean? Like does that make sense?

11:56 Yeah, well, and I'm, I was thinking through, I read like, you know, in the in the article, it listed a bunch of different brands and what different indie pet store owner staff said about these brands and why they were doing a really good job still supporting Indie Pet. One of them said that, you know, there was there was a brand and I don't know, I'm, I'm fine talking about brands. I don't know about you. I. Don't care. I think it was a pup above, which is honestly not my favorite. I don't generally recommend it, but they, I guess we're doing an online marketing thing where they were having people go into the indie pet store to get like free samples and that was really frustrating.

12:44 Indie Pet and somebody reached out to the company and they kind of changed the online marketing to be a little stronger and talking about actually buying the product from the Indy pet stores. So for me that's, that's still not amazing. Like you, you had to be told that you know this was going to hurt. You're, you're wasting our time, our payroll dollars to have people come in to get free stuff from me, from us on your behalf, right? Like that. That's kind of frustrating. I can imagine.

13:25 I don't, I have never worked in an indie pet store. I have done like events at indie pet stores and I know like I've been like, absolutely. There is no way I could never do this. I do not have the temperament for this. I just don't. But yeah, that would be very, very frustrating. I think across all of the brands, the thing that I saw more people talk about than anything else were the loyalty. Yeah, like the Astro loyalty. Yeah, and I think that's that's probably at the top of the list of everything that was listed. But if, if Astro, when Astro first came on, I was like, oh boy, genius process, genius company to develop because they're making money on both ends.

14:19 But for an independent pet store, you have to be on Astro. You just have to be. So manufacturers that are available on Omni channel, you earn frequent buyers when you shop Indies. So in other words, it's by X you get one free. They also it's also a great platform to run monthly sales. They have that that's not available in Omni channel. And also Neighborhood Pet Store Day, which is an indie pet creation, is the third Saturday of every September. And Astro has created like a whole separate farm for Neighborhood Pet Store Day.

15:02 So manufacturers can dump sales into that Neighborhood Pet Store Day. And I don't know if you realize this, but Neighborhood Pet Store Day has grown so much for retailers that it's actually higher volume than Small Business Saturday. So which is the Saturday it's giving? Because you're, I mean, well, yeah, because Black Friday originally was like the point in the year where. Yeah. Companies would actually start making a profit for the year, which is sad. Like that's very late in the year. That's sad. But that sounds like that you you might actually be doing that earlier in the year because of Neighborhood Pet Store Day.

15:43 So we definitely, I would say across the board, yes, retailers would see it earlier in the year, but you know, the Astro loyalty, God, I started loyalty programs and we literally had a card file for every manufacturer. We'd have 15 card files on the on the cash wrap. It was crazy. So Astro was, you know, is a saving grace for Indies. It really is. So what are some of the things that it are their brands that you think are still doing Omni channel that are really are they are doing everything they possibly can for Indy pet, Do you think that's possible? Do you think there are brands that are doing that? And if so, how do you like what's that differentiation that you see?

16:36 Yeah, I, I think the ones that are on Astro number one is the main thing #2 is in store support. So reps coming in, checking with store managers, checking with the pet store owners. What can I do for you? How are sales analyzing those sales you've dipped here? How can I help when they have events? These reps should be at the events as much as possible. I mean, I know they have territories and can't be everywhere at the same time, but they need to be at in store events, whether it's adoption events or whatever. You know, my Florida store and this is another way to get people into the stores, is we have a Kitty condo and we found a, we have a local rescue that we work with.

17:27 She primarily just does cats and small dogs, but we have a cat in our Kitty condo all the time and we average 2 adoptions a month. So that's and that's people love to come in and they sometimes they come in just to see the cat that's there. And they don't always buy something, but their regular customers, they know, you know, we're known for it. We're partnered with a great rescue. So anyhow, I got off topic, but how manufacturers can also is map pricing and making sure that customers if they are choosing to shop online because it is a convenience. We all do it. We all have crazy times in our lives. Yes, we want to always depend indeed. I mean, I like to support my any small shop. You know, I have a local shoe store that I love to go to the local farm that I love to go to, but life gets crazy. So sometimes we do have to shop online and that's a convenience. Convenience.

18:26 So we should have to pay more online and we do ultimately. I mean, if you're it's a convenience. Yeah, it. Is when it comes to raw? Go ahead. No, I, you're right. I mean, it is a convenience. It's frustrating. I think Amazon ruined a lot of people. And I know a lot of people are kind of disillusioned with Amazon anymore because all of those things we came to rely on are not happening any longer. I mean, even for me, you know, I, I ordered something on Amazon the other day literally because I needed it to show up in Indiana.

19:10 Like it wasn't I'm in Virginia. I needed something to show up in Indiana. So it made sense for me to buy something online. And I could have gotten honestly the same price at Best Buy as as I did on Amazon. But I have this like mentality that we, I think we all have now that, oh, if something goes wrong, Amazon is just going to make it right, right. So people will choose Amazon over, over other retailers for that reason. But it was supposed to get there on a Saturday. By Monday, it still wasn't there. And I'm like, why am I doing like I have again, I have no guarantees of delivery if I'm buying from Best Buy or another retailer either. But it's like everybody, I think, is starting to become very disillusioned with Amazon, and I think probably a good thing, too.

20:07 Yeah, and same with Chewy, because if you're on a food auto ship and they run out of your food or there's something in that Channel between the Chewy warehouse, Amazon warehouse, and your house, which weather transportation, there's only so much we can control. You're in full panic mode. And first of all, nobody should be on auto ship because you're getting the same food and Chewy does not have it in their rotation to rotate your proteins. So anybody on auto ship should just stop. I don't care how convenient it is. I don't care how much money you're saving. You're not rotating foods. You and I are.

20:49 I know like in the same camp on that. And another thing I like to mention is, which I think a lot of people don't realize is when we're only shopping online, we are only being shown what the algorithm is bringing, what the data, what the cookies on your websites are pulling. So you are only going to be exposed to certain things and there's a whole world of other things that you're never going to be exposed to. And I think that's a really bad thing because that just continues to channel consumers and dollars into the same buckets.

21:42 And that's not a good thing. We need diversity. So that's another reason why it's so important to go to independent pet stores because you're going to see brands that aren't online. I just met lovely people that do a beautiful, I mean, it's just lamb long, but it's beautiful New Zealand lamb long. Just it smells good. Like you can tell it's crap. I don't even believe that. I swear to God, it literally smells good. It's beautiful. And they were so people and knew it was their first global. So Biebs is the name of it.

22:23 But anyhow, I just, you know, that makes me nervous. And I believe in free enterprise and we're in a in a world of freedom, or we should be, but we can't put all of our money into the same place. We just can't. Yeah, well, in that same vein, I don't remember which states have done this, but I think 2 states have now made it illegal. I don't know if you've noticed this. I almost never like for years I didn't go into a Walmart when I moved back to Virginia. There's just nothing here. I have found myself in a Walmart twice in the past few months and both times I have regretted it. But one of the things that I have noticed is that there are items that do not have price tags on them anymore. And grocery stores have started doing this too. And I saw some, I wish I could remember what states they were, but two states have already made it illegal. But what they're doing is they are, they're intentionally not putting prices on things because they are charging you based on how much the whatever algorithm, based on your shopping habits, what they think you are willing to pay for that item. So the person behind me might pay $10.00 for it, I might pay $12.00 for it.

23:47 And so stores are already doing this and it's going to be, it's a lot easier to do online. I have seen Amazon do this. I have seen the exact same product from the exact same seller shown to me at two different prices and then I have had like a friend look up the same item on Amazon and he's getting a totally different price. So they're already doing these things. Yes, it is based on what they think you are willing to pay for that item. That's terrifying. Isn't it terrifying? And you're like literally just walking into a Walmart? They're doing this to you already. It's crazy.

24:28 Scroll control control I just saw and I, I, I'm assuming it's true. I did see on an on Instagram, but I saw Ford trucks, you know, all the technology in our vehicles. Now they now are not only watching our eyeballs to make sure we're awake, they're also listening to us and reporting to the insurance companies what type of driver we are. And we have no control over that. And they're getting money from the insurance companies for doing it.

25:11 And it's a patented product. Well, Congress is getting ready to vote on whether this is going to be mandatory for manufacturers to put in vehicles like it's about to be mandatory for every vehicle to have this technology. Oh my God. Yeah, it's crazy. On my new car, it monitors, you know, whether you're sitting up enough, whether your eyes are open, blah, blah, blah. It's annoying. It is so annoying. It drives me nuts. I covered it with tape. Yeah. Well, and, and you know, when I one of the things that I do think it is really, really good to do right now, because, again, insurance companies are doing the exact same thing where they are, they will just keep raising the rates every six months, every or whatever your renewal is, because it's usually too much of A hassle for people to switch insurance companies. Yeah.

26:13 So that's kind of what they're banking on. Just like gym memberships, storage units do this. You're not going to empty your storage unit and move it into another facility. Like they know that they've got you. They're just going to keep raising the rates. Well, I the, so I'm currently with Progressive, which is not my favorite, but that's like, I actually do the research every renewal to make sure that I, I have what I want and I'm getting the best rates. They will give you a discount if you install a little device in your car so that they can monitor your driving. I'm like, you are out of your mind. You are out of your mind. Just I can't, I, I can't, I can't, I have a new thing like that.

27:01 I think I have to exit society. My niece, I said that to my niece. She's like, stop saying that. It sounds like you want to off yourself. I'm like I I just, I just don't. I just went out of the matrix. Like I, I, I can't. I can't. I'll go back to a car that I used to crank the windows down South. That's terrifying. That's I just. But I I say all of that to say that I don't think indie pet stores are there like, and the reason I say that is because y'all are struggling. You're not buying the technology to not put price tags on things.

27:45 You know what I mean? Like right, right. It I'm sure there are because like even with my web store, I use Shopify, there maybe there are apps that I could do this. I'm not doing that. That's ridiculous. There's no way I'm going to do that. And that's how I'm building my brand is because I think I want people to trust me personally, not just to be buying from just like that's what people should be doing with Indy pet stores. You go in, you're not just going in to buy a product. You are going in to cultivate a relationship with somebody who not only knows you, but knows your pet. If you're here, it's because your pet isn't just a pet, they're family, and you can feel when something's off, even if the labs look normal. That's why I created Wild Wellness Pet and the Wild Wellness Bioenergetic Test to help you see the hidden stressors your pet's body is quietly carrying and give you a clear, holistic starting point.

28:46 Head to wildwellnesspet.com to explore the Bioenergetic Energetic Test and the Apothecary and take the next loving, protective, proactive step for your pets healing journey. I mean, yes, should everybody, everybody needs to be a little a little leery of other people. But I talk about this all the time, that if as a pet parent you are the head of your pets care team and having an indie, somebody at an indie pet store that you know, who knows your pet, that you have some sort of trust in is an important part of that. It really is.

29:29 And not only that, but you know, the Indies are such a great place to go for socialization with your dog and your cat. I have. We have people bring cats in quite often. I know it's definitely not as often as dogs, but it's becoming more of a thing that people are out and about with their cats, which which is fantastic. So but we get super excited when cats come in because they can get on the counter and do all kinds of fun things. But it's important to always socialize your pets, like don't stop when they're a year old. And this is totally off topic, but that's what Indies are great for. They get so excited when your pet walks in and that's a really, that's a really great thing.

30:14 And you know, I don't want to get on a soapbox, but we, we can't lose that human bond either. We, we need to keep, we need to keep community and shopping indie is part of it. So you're going to get better service, you're going to save money. You are keeping your money in the community and Indies do struggle. Just I mean, to work on margins that are 30%. It's, it's, it's tough. You have to build, I mean, to truly make it you, you have to build pretty high volume stores. So to turn product, which is what I have. So, but it's, it's, it's tough and we hear it all the time. And that's why, you know, I'm a board member for Indy Pet, just to try to help people across, across the country. How do you feel about the Indie Pet Store itself going Omni channel, meaning that they have an online presence? I would so if I still had my 3 Pittsburgh stores because you know, I sold them a year and three months ago and I have one Florida store currently.

31:37 That was the direction I was going. They can't ship everything though, so you have to be like huge as an independent pet like Treats Unleashed or Premier Pet Supply in Michigan. You have to be really big to be able to ship food competitively against Chewy and Amazon. So I'm I'm not against it. I'm not against it. And another thing that I really like about building an online platform for Indies is, and this is what I do a lot is I shop and pick up. So yes, so, and that's like a lot of stores. I was just in Kohl's the other day. I didn't realize this.

32:23 I don't shop a ton. Like I, I worked, I've worked retail so many years that I really avoid shopping. But I don't shop online either. But very much. But anyhow, I was in Kohl's the other day and they have a whole section dedicated to pickups, just like walking into Panera Bread or something. Like your your pickups are all in one location. I've seen an an indie do that too, so I I love that. I think it's a great convenience and really could give Indies a leg up. So 'cause I love to shop and pick up. That actually reminds me when I was still living in Texas, I I had an indie pet store my friend owned and she just didn't.

33:10 She had access to but didn't carry in store the things that I wanted for my pets. I guess there's a whole lot that could go into that conversation, but I would literally just place orders with her and she would order it through her distributor and then I would go and pick it up. Absolutely. And that's I think a very good point for pet parents to know is don't be afraid to ask because most likely if you are looking for something that you suggested just that that you don't have on your shop yet or is in the natural more natural category, your indie can likely get it for you. So don't ever be afraid to ask, especially if it's frozen. If you are buying frozen food online, you are losing money because you are paying a ton for shipping when you can go to a local independent pet store and save all of that money on shipping.

34:12 I think a lot of people don't realize that too, especially with I mean with frozen food. They just can't ship it without dry ice and today it it's expensive. It is. I know I'm at a point right now. Well I will admit that I am purchasing frozen things online and having it shipped and I'm having to pay shipping and I hate it. But at the same time, I'd have to drive an hour one way to go get it. Sure. Otherwise, and I'm just not. I'm like which which am I going to do this month? Do I have the time this month or do I not have the time? This month, right, you have to balance Yeah, it is and it's. Frustrating. And I hate it, I'm not going to lie, like I hate, I hate, again, another thing that Amazon has done to us. I hate paying shipping.

35:00 Yes. So, OK, well, no, the one thing that I was just thinking when you were talking about that was that there is a, they were talking about a company that does beds, that has a drop slip program that is available to, and I don't know if it's available outside of that, but that is available to indie pet stores so that you don't have to carry everything in store, which is kind of nice too. Absolutely. And people like to feel the beds and squish the beds and, you know, see the zippers and really look at the size. So and the fact that I'm pretty sure it's pet play provides them with a Swatch ring, I think is and a drop ship program is fabulous.

35:50 I actually did that not with pep play, but I did it with cots. I can't remember 4 something cots, four leg legged cots, I think it was. So I got one of each size for each store and then they had a Swatch ring too for the fabric and like the little plugs on each corner. You could really customize it so and I did a drop ship program like that with them. So that's another thing that really kind of I think sets India apart. Freedom, no pull harnesses, same deal. They have so many patterns and so many colors and I love that company. Made in the USA, same deal.

36:32 You can have a limited amount and have an affiliate link on your website. I mean, these are things that the manufacturers might not directly come to the Indies and say, hey, you can do this, but it takes us going to them and saying, hey, I want to do this. So the only other thing that I wanted to really bring up because the only company that for me I feel like is consistent consistently doing this very vocally very well, which is also the company that I have been ordering from online because I don't have the two hours to go get it is Green Juju. Yeah, they, even though I do feel like they could, they could kill it if they sold more online. But they every single time they do anything, whether it's a live on social media or physically at an event or whatever they're doing, they always say go to your indie pet store or like even I've had Billy on like 6 Times Now. Every single time we'll get it at your indie pet store. And I don't think a lot of other brands are doing that. I agree with you.

37:51 I agree with you and they should be more vocal about it. They really should all of them, you know, maybe they feel that a Rep coming into the store is doing it for them. But yeah, they all. And another thing is geofence targeting. I mean that can help store locators on manufacturer websites can help. So, and as far as green juju, I mean Billy's pounds of pavement half the year and is in stores and AT AFCO and AT seminars and like he, I mean, he truly at his heart and soul believes in the Indies and that's that's awesome.

38:44 Yeah, well, I think Kelly does too. I mean. Of course. Well, yeah, yeah. To I mean, yeah, it's, it's it really is something different that I see from them that there are some other companies that will say it, but I don't think do it as well or as often as they do it. So, OK, you brought up global a couple of times and I have actually never been to global, not because I don't want to go, but because generally speaking, there are only so many places I can go in a year. And I tend to go to Super Zoo and most people tell me that that's the better one to go to anyway. I don't know.

39:32 That's what I'm, that's what I'm being told. But I do think what we were talking about before we hit record that whatever trend is going on at global is probably the trend that's going to happen at Super Zoo. So I'm curious of your thoughts for of global. I can't say this but I hope you're wrong because Global is disappointing. SO and I interview. I think you know this. I interview manufacturers at Global so I put together 2 episodes. That was great. It was very well, well received, but and then I did a whole sub stack article on global and you know, I'm pretty authentic. I tell it like it is.

40:16 So Global was pretty disappointing from the standpoint of, and I'll try to keep this as short as possible and I talked to a lot of manufacturers as well. So they really feel that attendance was down Friday. The last day literally was a ghost town like Wow town and they had a ton of influencers there. Interesting. Well, their marketing to for attendance I did notice was different this year that they were trying to get more influencers there, which is the opposite of what Super Zoo is doing.

40:57 And I wonder how many of those influencers are being compensated. So even the and I might have the name wrong. Jackson Callie, the ones that have like the it's a golden retriever, I think. And it's a they're hysterical, but they talk to one another about about mom and dad if they're really funny, But they were there ton of influencers. So from the manufacturer's perspective, they, I literally had, I mean Donna from up country say it was very disappointing because a lot of people coming to their booth were influencers and they're not buyers. So another thing, I and my best friend Kelly, who is my accountant, we had a speaking engagement. We were chosen to be speakers and we put together, yeah, I was super excited about it because we put together a program and she, you know, we really crunched numbers on a 45 minute talk on how to help Indies become more profitable. So Global has always offered education in the past for free. It's not the case anymore.

42:12 So NOW and Super Zoo has always charged Global Now charges which I was not aware of and I don't know exactly how the paying platform worked, but I had people coming to me with intentions of coming to my talk, couldn't get in and they were told they had to pay $350.00. Oh wow, right, For I hope that's not for just one talk. Not just I think it's kind of like a day pass. Or like the day, yeah. Pop in and out of any of the classes in one day. So that was very disappointing. I had seven people attend my talk and very disappointing. And my best friend flew from Pittsburgh to Orlando just to do this in taxis.

43:02 Yeah. Wow. I well I the first year I went to Super Zoo I paid for the education and I have not done it since. I was not enough to pay for it. I agree with you and that's why I was excited that I was chosen because I feel like the education that's provided are not people walking the walk. They are not. Most part, most of those are marketing companies, social media companies, finance companies, retail expert companies. They're not people truly in the pet industry and they don't get it. They just don't get it.

43:43 It's a good information they're bringing probably because I also have attended many classes over the years. But it's not, it's not people that understand what we are doing. It's a different industry. Yeah, I, I have a little bit of a different opinion on the influencers. First of all, I hate the word influencer, though I think for some people there, there are people out there that deserve that title because they don't know what they're talking about. They just have an audience, right? So like companies are coming to them, paying them, giving them product because they have an audience. They have no idea what they're actually talking about. They're just getting sales for a company. That's what I think an influencer is. And those are the kind of people that I don't think have value at places like Global and Super Zoo. People that they call micro influencers, I think are generally more apt to actually know what the heck they're talking about.

44:57 They are more educated. They have smaller audiences because of that because it is more education based and less entertainment based. And I do see that. The thing that I have not been happy with Super Zoo about in the past couple years is even though I completely understand the people that are paying to have booths there want buyers in their booths 100% understand that. Also, having a pot, a platform like that to where you can connect with content creators, I prefer to call them content creators or micro influencers. I think that if you're a brand, especially a smaller brand, and you're not connecting with content creators and micro influencers, you are missing the boat in in some form or fashion. 100% agree.

45:48 So I think that it can be both. I think that it can be. Yes, I want buyers in my booth, but also I would like to also take this opportunity to have to get to meet people one-on-one, face to face together, some sort of marketing program for me to get out. There. No, that's an excellent point that I didn't see that side of it, but that's an excellent point. But again, people that are just influencers like, you know, the the nom noms and the farmers dogs and the that have humongous marketing budgets, yeah, sure, they're going to use the people all day long, but those people have no idea what they're talking about. Yeah.

46:33 In my opinion, generally speaking. Yeah. And I, I mean, and then there's ones that are micro, micro so, and I would only provide information on a manufacturer that I truly support just because I, I just, I just couldn't and wouldn't do it otherwise. I mean, what I say about my stores is I won't sell it if I wouldn't feed it. And that's based on a full economic range because I do sell kibble, you know what I mean? But you know, because kibble's unfortunately probably never going to completely go away, but but yeah, that's, that's an excellent point.

47:19 Yeah, well, and I mean, nobody has to agree with me, that's for sure. WPA doesn't seem to, but it's, and I get it, like people, especially people that are paying the big bucks for the, you know, half of a style and doing all the things and putting in huge installations. Of course they want to make their money back, which means they need buyers. But also there, there there is some forethought to be had in making your money back through how people are buying today, which is social media like TikTok shop hasn't gotten as large as it is because people want to be buying from big box stores.

48:06 Like that's just not, you know, there's a shift. And I think there are some small manufacturers or some small brands that kind of get that. But generally speaking, like, I just think it can be both. Another thing about Global is there were there are some manufacturers not showing up anymore and I think they're from what I have heard, some I've talked to directly, some I haven't, but they're not. It is a huge investment and they are choosing to put those dollars in somewhere else. That is interesting there.

48:49 There have been a couple of brands kind of noticeably missing at Super Zoo, but not huge huge like usually not even the ones that are even in Indy, even though they could be. There's one in like animal Biome is one that I think I've off the top that hasn't been at Super Zoo the past couple of years and could easily be in Indy pet. I don't know if they just haven't marketed marketed it appropriately because they do have wholesale available. It could be both, you know, stocked or drop shipped. They do both, but I haven't noticed Indy pet kind of bringing them.

49:35 And I've seen like, you know, Yukari has has hung in there and I have seen some Indy pet bring Yukari in, which is not not my favorite. Like we could go down that road. That's not my favorite test, but like they, they did it, they stuck in there and they said you could bring our stuff into your into your shop and it has a price that that that could make it work. I don't know. But yeah, it is interesting where people, especially the smaller, smaller brands, they're just like, I don't, I'm not getting my return on this. And bigger ones, I mean, in nature's variety, instinct wasn't there, selling really wasn't there, Yeah. Wow.

50:20 Yeah. So, and I don't know if you realize this, but there used to be 3 industry trade shows a year. Yeah, Backer was one. It started out in Atlantic City. I think the last year for Backer was I went once. So probably 2011. So, you know, it wouldn't surprise me if we were down to one at some point. It'll take a while, but it wouldn't surprise me if that happened. I will say, like at first when you said Stella and Chewie's, I was like, oh, but then I'm like, well, they already got into big box. Yeah, yeah.

51:06 So they're clearly not supporting Indy because they're not going to global and their CEO is grocery now. He's directly from grocery. He and his, I think CFO or something also not in the industry. And they, they came and smoke spoke at the Indy pet trade show. I totally lit them up. I did. So they are an example of how not to do Omni channel. Exactly. They are totally. And it's it's sad because you know that start that was a heart and soul grass roots like Marie walking through New York City with her cart of raw food and like it's it's sad to see a brand die, die like that.

51:56 But and it's not dying, but it's just changed. Yeah, it's not well. And the big, the bigger concern that just like as an advocate in the industry I have had is when you go, when you make such a huge leap into big box like that, if you're like, how is the quality of your product going to be affected? And I don't know that that I heard any answers around that that made me comfortable with the fact that it wouldn't. I mean going into big box if you if it does impact your cells positively, you've got to crank out food quicker, which means you might have to go there are total I think they're 100% in house, but you may have to increase production which usually lowers quality and who knows, who knows. Right.

53:04 Yeah. And less likely to, you know, I think one of the things that a lot of the smaller brands do really well, or I actually have had this conversation a couple of times that I think some of the small brands do really well. But I think they're going to have to double down on is transparency and making it like you're, you have to tell people any and everything like the smallest changes. Because if somebody finds out something changed and you didn't make people aware of it first. Yeah. People are not happy about that, Yeah. And again, I think there are some brands that do that really well, but I think they're going to have to double down on it, especially with a lot of the bigger pet food company, like pretty much all of them have entered the fresh food space in the last year in some way, shape or form.

54:00 So it it's just going to be again, just like with have it with like labeling organic produce, which is totally bass ackwards. Like the the companies that are doing it right, that are being transparent are going to have to double down on that, which again, is really sad. But that's just the society we live. In. So, OK, the one other thing that I did want to bring up that I think would benefit Indy Pet Stores a lot moving forward and we kind of talked about this the last time I had you on my show was that and you said you had seen this too. And the last like 10-15 years, it has become more difficult. So like prior to that, we could just move a dog or a cat, specifically dogs to a raw food diet and so many things would improve.

55:03 Often times everything, right? And now it's not that easy anymore. One of the things is like it brings up so many things. One, if people are still under like if people if people still believe that in Indy pet that they can just switch somebody to a raw food diet and their dog is going to be cured or whatever. Like we can't say that but and it doesn't happen. Then that client then loses trust, loses faith, right? Which is frustrating, but also with as much education that Indy pet has had to do on their own, there's still more to be known, right?

55:53 There's still more education to be had to really be able to help pet parents the way that I think they need in ways that our current veterinary system isn't doing. And I have seen it work really, really well in the very few cases that I have seen it happen in where an indie pet actually sends and trains somebody to become a pet health coach and learn about all of the organ systems, learn about Chinese medicine, learn how we actually support the body through whatever it's going through. There was all these, you know, different things that that could be alien, an animal in addition to food. Right.

56:42 Right. And, and you have these products in house, generally speaking, it's just a matter of like actually combining them in the way that is going to move the needle. So that's something that I think could really differentiate and and move the needle and in a much more positive direction for Indy Pet to actually be not just, oh, you come and buy stuff from us, but also we can help you in ways that other people like literally just can. Yeah, I really think that could be, that can really be huge for for Indy Pet because you already have a knowledge base that is really going to make that an easy transition for whoever you send to train to be a health coach.

57:38 I don't I just I, I I think it could really be a good thing. Yeah. And it these could charge for it and have the whole waiver thing. And, and that's sort of, and you have to charge for it because otherwise the customer's not going to commit to the program. And it's just, there's not going to be a back and forth and it's just going to be a shit show. Because I've, I've actually tried this, but it was more towards when I was getting out of Pittsburgh. So I did not really market it to the point that it needed to be marketed. But yes, that would that would definitely set aside an indie because, you know, you and I both can you I you will probably agree with me.

58:23 I mean, I talked to I have so many people reach out and I don't technically coach. I just, you know, hey, let's talk about this. And you know, a lot of times it's just talking them off the bridge, but they want guidance. Like they're not like you or IA. Lot of people aren't like you and I willing to just do it ourselves, be our own advocate, use the vet only for clinical data, blood work, all of the things and they want, they want guidance. So and there's not enough integrative vets or holistic vets or whatever you want to call them. They're just not enough. So that would that would really help Indies and it would help the industry and moving that needle even more than we've already moved it so.

59:14 Yeah, I did a talk a couple of months ago at a pet sitters conference because I, I, I, I think they're also in a good position to be able to help people like this in this way. But I think indie pet stores or even in an even better position. For sure. Yeah, to to be able to help people that way. I had my own pet sitting business prior to owning my stores for eight years, so I can't tell. Like it's difficult being a pet sitter feeding kibbles and bits or, you know, my first, my first client, I was a Beagle puppy that I had to fill with her Kong with cream cheese and Jelly. I know she died of diabetes at 10. And, and this is, you know, I was already a raw feeder, but you know, I was not at the point then that I could say, Hey, do you really think this is a good idea? Can I give you some ideas?

1:00:15 Like that's a, that's a tough. And a lot of pets that are don't even see the homeowner, the, the, the pet parents. They just see the dog or the cat. So. Which is a whole other whole other thing. Oh, they're bag of bag of. I don't even like crap to open bag of crap to anyway. I don't know. What do you think? Did we do this talk justice? I think, I think we hit the main point to you know, don't. It is what it is. Don't funnel yourself only to shopping online. Don't do auto ship. What else?

1:00:58 What, what, what, what, what? Main I mean building the relationship. I think you know, people who work in Indy pet already want to build the relationship. The pet parent has to walk in willing to build that relationship as well. That's where for me, I think that's where the conversation with pet parents really needs to go like. Yeah. This, that this isn't just a place where you go buy something, right? And you know, if you're especially if you're coming from a big box, like that's not what you're used to. But having an open mind, which, you know, that's a problem with society in general today is having an open mind. And it's hard, you know, we get beaten down so much that we close ourselves off.

1:01:53 But you know, these people actually care. I think almost everybody that goes into any part of animal care, whether it is a veterinarian or a vet tech or owning an indie pet store or whatever, at some point in time, like they went into that because they care about the animal. And I mean, that's it's, it's you have a foundation there to build off. It's not like walking into, I don't know, a Walmart and just pulling anybody off of their register and saying, you know, care about my animal.

1:02:36 Like, no, you have no idea. That person could literally hate animals, right? You walk into an indie pet store, you know that everybody in that pet store absolutely loves animals. And if you give them the chance, they're going to love your animal. Yep, and that common ground goes a long way. Yeah, yeah. And you never know where those conversations will lead that you have in those stores, whether it involves your pet or not your pet, you know what I mean? It's. Oh, yeah, I've, I've definitely heard many conversations about healing yourself. Yeah, like, you know, just figuring out menopause, perimenopause, like, like I've heard conversation because that's where we all are, right? Like we're, we're not just trying to figure out what's happening with our pets.

1:03:22 We're trying to figure out what's happening with us too, because we don't trust any medical system anymore. When this is funny and then we can wrap it up. But when Billy was giving a talk at my Florida store, I don't know how we got on topic of cholesterol. And my cholesterol is 340, but my my good cholesterol is really high, right? So yeah, that's a good thing. So I like said it during his talk, a woman came up to me afterwards that came in just to hear him talk and said, So what doctor do you go to? Because my doctor just put me on medication because mine's high. But I don't think that thought like she truly was like wanting wanting help.

1:04:09 Yes, quite you have to question and I'm she didn't know if her if her good cholesterol was higher try good list like she didn't know that all the details. She just followed what her doctor said. Yeah, yeah. I mean, people won't know that. They just keep decreasing what a good number is because they literally want the world on statins. Yep. Which is going to kill your brain like the the idea that we have demonized saturated fats when that is literally what our brain is made of. I know. Boggles my mind. I know, I know. OK, well, yeah, I think, I think that's hopefully good. Please shop Indy Pet.

1:04:54 Please shop Indy pet please please. Right. Yes. Well, Tony, thank you so much for coming on. Thank. You great conversation. Yeah, I hope to see you at Super Zoo. And guys, if you haven't for like for me on my end, I hope you check out Tony's podcast, Tony Unleashed, for more interesting conversations with Tony Schwansky. Thank. You. All right guys, have a good rest of your day. I'll talk to you next week before you go, if today's episode got you thinking about what's really going on beneath the surface for your pet, don't forget to check out Wild Wellness pet.com. You'll find the Wild Wellness Bioenergetic Test to help uncover hidden stressors, plus a curated apothecary of holistic remedies to support true root cause healing. Visit wildwellnesspet.com to start building a calmer, more vibrant pet from the inside out.